NFL in OKC

[mugofbeer]

Other than Atlanta, which has a relatively affluent metro population of about 5 million, what other major metro area strongly supports both NFL and major college football? Not Houston, not Dallas, not Denver, LA or San Francisco (though SF/OAK comes close at times. OKCs support of the Thunder has cost support for OU basketball. NFL would do the same for both OU and OSU football.

[Snowman]

Other than Atlanta, which has a relatively affluent metro population of about 5 million, what other major metro area strongly supports both NFL and major college football? Not Houston, not Dallas, not Denver, LA or San Francisco (though SF/OAK comes close at times. OKCs support of the Thunder has cost support for OU basketball. NFL would do the same for both OU and OSU football.

The support of OU's men's basketball generally tracked with the team performance. They went from a contender in the NCAA tournament to practically win less in the Big 12 as the Thunder arrived, a drop off in attendance for a sport that has never been as consistently supported as football should not be unexpected. Also, I do not think that donations have dropped nearly as much as the sales of the cheap seats.

[dankrutka]

I agree. OU has been bad (until last season) for the first stretch in probably 30 years. OU's basketball fans have never been great, but attendance increased last season. If the team returns to where it was (a top 20 team annually) then I would bet they'll have 80-90% of what they used to get.

Football seems like another monster though. I really like the strong college presence now. I'd hate to see them lose support.

[BoulderSooner]

I agree. OU has been bad (until last season) for the first stretch in probably 30 years. OU's basketball fans have never been great, but attendance increased last season. If the team returns to where it was (a top 20 team annually) then I would bet they'll have 80-90% of what they used to get.

Football seems like another monster though. I really like the strong college presence now. I'd hate to see them lose support.

and it wasn't long ago that OU basketball was a ticket sell out every game ..

[Just the facts]

For those that want the NFL, what is your reasoning for it? Is it because you like NFL football and want a local team to root for, you think it will raise OKCs national/international profile (or even in the profile in your own mind), both, or some other reason?

[dankrutka]

and it wasn't long ago that OU basketball was a ticket sell out every game ..

When was that? I think you're romanticizing a little bit. I went to most games since 2000 until the last couple years and while fan support was better, there was never a time that they were selling out evey game.

[BoulderSooner]

from 1998-1999 until around 2005 .. OU season tickets were sold out

don't confuse that with me saying bodies were in the stands .. for most game clearly they were not but the tickets were sold

[Laramie]

"Smart cities plan for the future."--Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett.

The big question is: Do we want to take risks?

MAPS I was our first big risk. It paid off.

MAPS II (...for Kids) It paid off with giving students a better physical learning environment.

MAPS FOR HOOPS Upgraded the Indoor Sports Arena (a key to obtaining an NBA franchise).

MAPS III Introduction of a taste of rail transit, downtown central park, convention center and other projects. In process...

MAPS IV ? (2017) Will we continue the momentum...

The uniqueness about Oklahoma City's experience in extending the sales tax (no new taxes) which allowed for building new structures and renovation of structures needing attention beyond bandages; our city generated its own stimulus to infuse private development.

It is unfortunate that some posters can't look toward the future. I'm talking about 2017 and 2020 and some critics can't see past the current year.

Let hope Mayor Mick Cornett continues on because there are some on the council (with good intentions) who wants to maintain the status-quo and expire the sales tax; this could cause progress to become stagnant and risk jeopardizing the progress OKC has made since the original MAPS I. A city on the verge? Oklahoma City needs to continue its momentum into the future.

[jedicurt]

MAPS IV ? (2017) Will be continue the momentum...

The uniqueness about Oklahoma City experience in extending the sales tax (no new taxes) which allows for building new structures and renovations of structures needing attention beyond bandages; our city generated its own stimulus to infuse private development.

It is unfortunate that some posters can't look toward the future. I'm talking about 2017 and 2020 and some critics can't see past the current year.

I am right there will you thinking about 2017 and 2020, and even 2025 and 2030. Maps IV should be massive expansion of streetcar, along with major changes to the bus system, and perhaps the OKC kick-in part of what would be a Regional transit authority (whether that be a light rail, or commuter rail). Maps IV should also be a continued investment and development of the C2S area and along the river. Maps IV should take us from a city with 3 arenas that have open dates to 2 arenas that are almost always being used (i think this is done by demolition of the Cox Center and a complete rebuild of the State Fair Arena to be the cities second and smaller arena venue). Expansion of sidewalks and bike lanes should be in Maps IV. Maps IV should make our city a destination that people are able to travel to for all of those conventions, that the OKC Chamber thinks will be in our new CC, and get around our fair city without the need of renting a car or getting a Taxi.

Maps IV should be tag lined as Walkable Maps, or Maps for a Walkable OKC. And sure there will be a few projects that are thrown in that are not related to that goal, but i'm okay with that. Maps IV should have the goal of making it easier to spend time and money in OKC rather than the suburbs, so that the amount of money generated for Maps is greatly increased.

At least that is my vision. and it does not include an NFL stadium

[Laramie]

I am right there will you thinking about 2017 and 2020, and even 2025 and 2030. Maps IV should be massive expansion of streetcar, along with major changes to the bus system, and perhaps the OKC kick-in part of what would be a Regional transit authority (whether that be a light rail, or commuter rail). Maps IV should also be a continued investment and development of the C2S area and along the river. Maps IV should take us from a city with 3 arenas that have open dates to 2 arenas that are almost always being used (i think this is done by demolition of the Cox Center and a complete rebuild of the State Fair Arena to be the cities second and smaller arena venue). Expansion of sidewalks and bike lanes should be in Maps IV. Maps IV should make our city a destination that people are able to travel to for all of those conventions, that the OKC Chamber thinks will be in our new CC, and get around our fair city without the need of renting a car or getting a Taxi.

Maps IV should be tag lined as Walkable Maps, or Maps for a Walkable OKC. And sure there will be a few projects that are thrown in that are not related to that goal, but i'm okay with that. Maps IV should have the goal of making it easier to spend time and money in OKC rather than the suburbs, so that the amount of money generated for Maps is greatly increased.

At least that is my vision. and it does not include an NFL stadium

Agree 100%. Does not have to include an NFL stadium...

[bluedogok]

Is OKC going to be a Top 30 television market by then? Probably not and as most other cities grow they are not going to move up 15 spots in 4-10 years and as the cities grow the "unwritten requirements" to get an NFL relocation or expansion team will increase as well. There will be a team in LA and possibly two and one in London before OKC has a shot at one. From a fan attendance perspective I think it could be a success but that is not what brings money to the table of the owners and the league. That is just being realistic as the NFL is a completely different world than any other sports league in the country. The effort would be better put towards a MLS stadium and team.

[Just the facts]

Is OKC going to be a Top 30 television market by then? Probably not and as most other cities grow they are not going to move up 15 spots in 4-10 years and as the cities grow the "unwritten requirements" to get an NFL relocation or expansion team will increase as well. There will be a team in LA and possibly two and one in London before OKC has a shot at one. From a fan attendance perspective I think it could be a success but that is not what brings money to the table of the owners and the league. That is just being realistic as the NFL is a completely different world than any other sports league in the country. The effort would be better put towards a MLS stadium and team.

Don't be surprised in the team in London is the Jaguars. We are already losing one home game a year for the next 5 years to London under the guise that it will be good for Jacksonville. Someone still needs to explain to me how having your team play home games in another city is supposed to help. Jacksonville thought having a team would bring all this growth to the area but it turns out that growth happens most when your team plays in a larger city somewhere else. The Jags owner just bought Fulham Football Club of the English Premier League, which just happens to play home games on the banks of the Thames in southwest London. To quote the Church Lady - how convenient.

[SoonerDave]

Don't be surprised in the team in London is the Jaguars. We are already losing one home game a year for the next 5 years to London under the guise that it will be good for Jacksonville. Someone still needs to explain to me how having your team play home games in another city is supposed to help. Jacksonville thought having a team would bring all this growth to the area but it turns out that growth happens most when your team plays in a larger city somewhere else. The Jags owner just bought Fulham Football Club of the English Premier League, which just happens to play home games on the banks of the Thames in southwest London. To quote the Church Lady - how convenient.

The Jags are one of the poster children for bad franchise expansion. Seems as though Khan (owner) has had at best a contentious relationship with the league AND the city, and the city has managed to ignore the team in droves. Agree that it looks like the Jags are a prime candidate to be the first NFL foray into England, which I personally think is a monumental mistake for the league, but that's a discussion for a different sports thread.

[traxx]

It is unfortunate that some posters can't look toward the future. I'm talking about 2017 and 2020 and some critics can't see past the current year.

We are looking toward the future. We're looking toward what happens when the Thunder is rebuilding or has a bad season or two. We supported them when they were bad a few years ago because OKC finally had a pro team that it could call its very own. Then we got good and it's fairly easy to support a good team. I think we should see how things turn out for the Thunder and can we support them in the long term. If suport goes south for them in the next 10 or 15 years, we have a real chance of losing them to another city. Let's not make our tenure as a big league city brief.

So as far as the NFL is concerned, I'm afraid we'd be biting off more than we can chew. Right now we don't have the population to support to pro franchises and I doubt we'll have that population by 2020. Maybe we will though. But right now, we're a ways off. Let's support what we do have.

[Laramie]

We are looking toward the future. We're looking toward what happens when the Thunder is rebuilding or has a bad season or two. We supported them when they were bad a few years ago because OKC finally had a pro team that it could call its very own. Then we got good and it's fairly easy to support a good team. I think we should see how things turn out for the Thunder and can we support them in the long term. If suport goes south for them in the next 10 or 15 years, we have a real chance of losing them to another city. Let's not make our tenure as a big league city brief.

So as far as the NFL is concerned, I'm afraid we'd be biting off more than we can chew. Right now we don't have the population to support to pro franchises and I doubt we'll have that population by 2020. Maybe we will though. But right now, we're a ways off. Let's support what we do have.

Have to agree! Based on our current rate of growth; we won't exceed two million.

Interesting that you brought this up. Salt Lake City has been in the league far longer than OKC--they have established their base. They are not averaging the 19,911 they use to average when they were competitive and had a winning record; however, they dropped to 18,900 (still better than OKC). They do have an MLS soccer franchise (Real Salt Lake) which is in its initial years of getting established. The team is doing quite well, averaging 19,000-plus.

Agree, we definitely don't want to lose the Thunder chasing a bigger fish we can hold. 2017-2020 is sometime away; let's see what develops...

[bluedogok]

The Jags are one of the poster children for bad franchise expansion. Seems as though Khan (owner) has had at best a contentious relationship with the league AND the city, and the city has managed to ignore the team in droves. Agree that it looks like the Jags are a prime candidate to be the first NFL foray into England, which I personally think is a monumental mistake for the league, but that's a discussion for a different sports thread.

Khan just bought the team at the end of 2011, I think Wayne Weaver had a contentious relationship with Jacksonville well before that.

I think the Jags are the most likely in London and the Rams/Kronke a distant second. I also think Buffalo will eventually be in Toronto full time and Mexico City is a dark house of international relocation/expansion.

[Just the facts]

Khan (the new owner) seems to be a great owner to most people but he seems just a little shifty to me. For example, he recently was the money man behind the purchase of several buildings and prime real estate in downtown Jax that the City has been trying to get redeveloped for a long time. He says he wants to do great things for the property and make the city proud - but so far he hasn't disclosed any plans. Then he comes and asks the City to spend over $60 million fixing up EverBank Field for him. It makes me wonder if he only bought the land and building as a way to grease the wheels on the stadium improvements and will now hold the city hostage on doing his redevelopments unless the improvements are made. Meanwhile, he has agreed to move 5 homes games to London because it will be good for Jacksonville.

[BoulderSooner]

bills lease runs until 2023 with the only reasonable buy out in 2020 .. buffalo and the team spending 120 mil renovating the stadium



jags lease pretty much iron clad until 2030

[Just the facts]

jags lease pretty much iron clad until 2030

It isn't iron clad - it has a buyout clause. A team in London would be way more valuable than the buyout clause. Also, the Sonics had an iron-clad lease as well.

http://jacksonville.com/sports/footb...ksonville-2030

If the Jacksonville Jaguars’ prospective new owner wants to move the team to a new city before 2030, he’d have to pay the city millions of dollars to get out of its lease for EverBank Field.

The team could avoid paying a lot of those penalties — which could total more than $100 million — if it lost money one year and was below the NFL’s revenue average the following two years.

The team has not publicly disclosed its revenue, but Jacksonville is one of the smallest and least profitable National Football League markets, so the latter condition is likely already the case.

...

If the team can show it has lost money for a year and had below-average revenue the following two years, though, that payout gets cut by about 40 percent.

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/sports/footb...#ixzz2ZJplE1mI

[BoulderSooner]

no nfl team is "losing" money ..

[Laramie]

For those that want the NFL, what is your reasoning for it? Is it because you like NFL football and want a local team to root for, you think it will raise OKCs national/international profile (or even in the profile in your own mind), both, or some other reason?

My mind is buffering (LOL!)...

Seriously, a thought-provoking question: Answer: A little of all of the above.

We are not currently ready for the NFL; nor would our small TV market make an impact on the NFL. The period of 2017-20 will help to address many of these questions.

Many large cities like Los Angeles, San Antonio and Portland would be more attractive to the NFL than OKC.

Nashville was a 'can do' city and they aggessively brought the NFL and the NHL in without its arch-rival city Memphis.

How long with that community support both the NHL & the NFL?

The NFL requires 3 million people in a 150-mile radius.

1. Will the NFL ever return to Los Angeles? Has its absence hurt NFL viewership media households?

2. Is San Antonio's Alamo Dome nearing obsolescence? Will they rebuild or renovate. Is it clear that the NFL doesn't want three NFL franchises in Texas?

3. Will Portland ever build an NFL stadium? Does Portland want the NFL?

4. Does the NFL want to go global?

Please: This should generate some discussion...

[BoulderSooner]

what the nfl wants is not really relevant ... all we need is a multi billionaire that buys a team and wants to move it to okc

[Just the facts]

no nfl team is "losing" money ..

Funny you mention that - because from 2002 to 2004 (the only years that were under review) - the Jags did lose money.

During contentious negotiations with the city over advertising revenue six years ago, Weaver said the team had lost money in two years between 2002 and 2004.

A city consultant who reviewed the team’s books at the time confirmed that the team did end some years in the red, although a nondisclosure agreement prohibited him from providing details.


Read more at Jacksonville.com: Jaguars' lease makes it costly to leave Jacksonville before 2030 | jacksonville.com

Anyhow, even if the Jags had to pay the full amount (around $100 million), they would make that back the first year in London. In fact, they would blow that out of the water just in Luxury Suite sales. Can anyone imagine how much a luxury suite in London would go for, especially after converting pounds to dollars. It is a lot more than a luxury suite in Jacksonville goes for.

[BoulderSooner]

Funny you mention that - because from 2002 to 2004 (the only years that were under review) - the Jags did lose money.



Anyhow, even if the Jags had to pay the full amount (around $100 million), they would make that back the first year in London. In fact, they would blow that out of the water just in Luxury Suite sales. Can anyone imagine how much a luxury suite in London would go for, especially after converting pounds to dollars. It is a lot more than a luxury suite in Jacksonville goes for.

depends what the lease terms would be in london .. with the already owned stadium ..

[Just the facts]

depends what the lease terms would be in london .. with the already owned stadium ..

Tru Dat. Of course, with his own soccer team in London and a few billion at his disposal he might choose to build his own stadium. I don't know if the UK is into publicly funding sporting venues like the US is.