REHCO / Former Downtown Ford site

[Reno and Walker]

All Film Row is waiting on is for the city rescue mission to move.. What is the deal on 7th and Virginia it that the new mission. The building is very cool and Modern. The bums are going to love it. Also saw the workers remodeling Detox today on Linwood and Virginia how exciteing haha..

[Reno and Walker]

This might help. Whenever the urban renewal maps were shown to us I could not figure out why everything to the north and to the west of the Ford sight was in the red urban renewal target, but Ford sight was not. This probably means the city wants no part of the sight. That map is somewhere on line can someone find it please. It had the art council was safe, but 400 block of reno was in the red as well as my property. Also believe ABC was also in the red.. I am going to try to find this map.

[Reno and Walker]

Steve L I think you know what i am talking about, Can you find it I am having trouble finding the map.

[Spartan]

This might help. Whenever the urban renewal maps were shown to us I could not figure out why everything to the north and to the west of the Ford sight was in the red urban renewal target, but Ford sight was not. This probably means the city wants no part of the sight. That map is somewhere on line can someone find it please. It had the art council was safe, but 400 block of reno was in the red as well as my property. Also believe ABC was also in the red.. I am going to try to find this map.

R&W, what are you talking about? In the safe from what? Red urban renewal targets?

Urban renewal is acquiring land for the assemblage of the Central Park. They might do some land acquisition to spur development around the park. They might be tasked to do the land assemblage for the convention center. Other than that, I'm not aware of what you're talking about.

If you're a little clearer, there are a lot of people on here who can probably bring up the map you might be referring to..

[onthestrip]

Granted Howard and Ford have some money and could develop their site, but has anyone thought that they might just be throwing some ambitious plans out to the public to somewhat drive up the value of that property so they could demand more money if the city were to buy it for the convention center?

[Kerry]

Granted Howard and Ford have some money and could develop their site, but has anyone thought that they might just be throwing some ambitious plans out to the public to somewhat drive up the value of that property so they could demand more money if the city were to buy it for the convention center?

The problem is it doesn't work that way. Besides, we haven't seen any ambitions plans.

[Spartan]

Granted Howard and Ford have some money and could develop their site, but has anyone thought that they might just be throwing some ambitious plans out to the public to somewhat drive up the value of that property so they could demand more money if the city were to buy it for the convention center?

Doubtful.

[Reno and Walker]

Spartan it was in the DOK everyone in the neighborhood saw it. Do you live in OKC full time. Dude I know what I am talking about because I am being affected. I will try to find it for you.

[Spartan]

I think it's very doubtful that all along Howard and Hall have just been acting as land acquisition agents for the city in secret. That would represent a strong move AWAY from the Core2Shore city-building model coming from the highest levels of city government, and I doubt that strongly. I also doubt that Preftakes is acting as a secret land acquisition agent for Devon. I don't think he's that integral a part of the good ol boy network downtown, even though I'm not saying he isn't plugged in, and I also see him doing development simply for the reason that he is a developer. He has developed lots of things in the past. He was one of the first to bring up downtown housing in this city since urban renewal, back in the 90s.

I read the Daily Oklahoman too. I'm a lot more plugged in than you realize (and I find it absolutely shameful that I'm defending my "plugged-in"-ness on a freaking Internet forum, which is why I generally avoid every single personal remark directed toward me on this board)..and yes, I'm now living in Europe for a few months. Big deal? I don't feel like OKC is moving at such a rapid pace that I miss a lot of things. I think you also know that's not the case...lol

[Reno and Walker]

EUROPE!!!!!!! WOW!!!! Enough said. No Wonder..

[metro]

At least Reno is a real stakeholder

[Spartan]

The people on this forum never cease to amaze me.

[shane453]

The people on this forum never cease to amaze me.

+1

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

So... what is MAPS3? How do you justify it in terms of city-building? Or is it just a collection of random public facilities that have to be put somewhere afterall? If that's the case, I know a good site--Meridian or NW Expressway. Cheaper land, easier acquisition, large parcels.

With all due respect, my personal view is that M3 and C2S are intermingled and one in the same in the sense that MAPS is the public part of C2S and the first phase of it. We can't forget that we want to build a great city. Not just a great convention center. I think that is lost in all of this.

With all due respect, I think you blew my comment out of proportion. I think you plan Maps3 with the hope that C2S comes to fruition, but don't count on it.

Going back to the Ford site, I think it's a very important key in the cog of both Maps 3 and Core to Shore. It must be developed properly and at the right time to help these initiatives succeed.

[Spartan]

With all due respect, I think you blew my comment out of proportion. I think you plan Maps3 with the hope that C2S comes to fruition, but don't count on it.

Going back to the Ford site, I think it's a very important key in the cog of both Maps 3 and Core to Shore. It must be developed properly and at the right time to help these initiatives succeed.

I agree. I think it is the most important cog, actually. And there were (hopefully still are, I presume) plans for that. There was also a series of proposed places, off to the side, for the convention center. I think Core2Shore and the new park is going to be built AROUND what ends up going on this site. It will be the new beating heart of downtown. Should that be a convention center facility, or should it be a large, vibrant mixed-use development?

That's the question. I'm not doubting that this isn't a good site for the convention center, I'm just saying that it's an even better site for some other things, and the question I'm pressing, is why don't you think that should be considered? Why is the convention center perspective the end-point? Downtown is not about conventions. The downtown we're trying to have is about lifestyle, and business is not more than just a component of that.

[shane453]

That's the question. I'm not doubting that this isn't a good site for the convention center, I'm just saying that it's an even better site for some other things, and the question I'm pressing, is why don't you think that should be considered? Why is the convention center perspective the end-point? Downtown is not about conventions. The downtown we're trying to have is about lifestyle, and business is not more than just a component of that.

Well I think all Comm Real Estate Guy is saying is... if YOU owned land and had the choice of doing an expensive, difficult, development where you had to spend money and take risks OR selling land to the city at a premium easily and being done with it, wouldn't you stop and see what could play out with the city? I think I would no matter how much I wanted to see development there. It's just a smart business decision to ride that out

[Spartan]

Oh, no doubt. I actually said just that earlier in this thread, not that it's important, but I'm definitely there. So from the perspective of Howard/Hall, yeah...

But from the perspective of the city, I think there is a LOT more, and that's all I can comment on. I can't really comment on or extrapolate what might be good for private parties. That's not really interesting to me.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

I agree with you both.

As discussed earlier, I don't think this site is big enough for what the CVB is saying is needed. I also don't think the Cox Site (even with Sheraton Century Center included) is big enough.

So, I think we'll see mixed use on the Ford site. I don't think it will be developed in the near future, but it will be great when it's done.

In a dream world, this site would be perfect for:
-Retail along the Boulevard
-A skinny park running through it to connect Central Park and Myriad Gardens
-Housing developed on the rest of the site
-Also, narrowing the streets that run through the site and adding on-street parking would make this an Uptown-style development in Dallas

[Reno and Walker]

I think the land on the NW corner of R&W would be better suited..

[Larry OKC]

I agree with you both.

As discussed earlier, I don't think this site is big enough for what the CVB is saying is needed. I also don't think the Cox Site (even with Sheraton Century Center included) is big enough. ...

Not sure if I understand this as currently the Cox site has 1M sf (arena included) and the new C.C. is going to have 300K? Seems like plenty of room for the C.C. even with Phase 2 expansion plus the hotel. Especially if it is built up and not out as some have suggested.

[Kerry]

Not sure if I understand this as currently the Cox site has 1M sf (arena included) and the new C.C. is going to have 300K? Seems like plenty of room for the C.C. even with Phase 2 expansion plus the hotel. Especially if it is built up and not out as some have suggested.

The lot the Cox sits on in only 670,000 sq feet. The only way the claim the Cox has a million sq feet of floor space is if they count the underground parking deck, the main level (including the arena floor) and the second floor. The footprint of Cox is not 1 million sq ft. As near as I can tell the footprint of the Cox is less than 450,000 sq feet.

If you close Harney and Hudson the Ford site has 720,000 sq feet. However, this is one of the reason I am opposed to the Ford site. Downtown OKC does not need another super block, espcially when one of the last remaining thru street (Shields) is going to be reduced to two lanes and won't even connect directly to the new Blvd (which happens to be only 1 of 2 East/West thru street). Talk about creating a traffic nightmare. It would be gridlock most of the time - espcially after an event.

[BG918]

The lot the Cox sits on in only 670,000 sq feet. The only way the claim the Cox has a million sq feet of floor space is if they count the underground parking deck, the main level (including the arena floor) and the second floor. The footprint of Cox is not 1 million sq ft. As near as I can tell the footprint of the Cox is less than 450,000 sq feet.

If you close Harney and Hudson the Ford site has 720,000 sq feet. However, this is one of the reason I am opposed to the Ford site. Downtown OKC does not need another super block, espcially when one of the last remaining thru street (Shields) is going to be reduced to two lanes and won't even connect directly to the new Blvd (which happens to be only 1 of 2 East/West thru street). Talk about creating a traffic nightmare. It would be gridlock most of the time - espcially after an event.

What if you created a new superblock at the Downtown Ford site with the convention center, but then demolished the Cox and restored the street grid there? That would enable Broadway to go south to Reno dead-ending at the Ford Center, and for California to go from Robinson to Santa Fe. With the train station next door it could be a massive TOD on par with what they are doing at Union Station in Denver.

[Kerry]

I am all for getting rid of the Cox superblock but that won't solve any of the problems created by a new super block on the Ford site. There will still be no thru traffic. Everyone going into or out of downtown will have to make atleast one left or right turn. It will be a traffic disaster. The city needs to be working to restore the grid, not making it worse. If they keep closing all the streets the new Blvd will need to be 6 lanes wide, and so will Shields.

[Kerry]

Can you build "up" with a convention center? Are there 5 story convention centers that make sense with floor plans? Or is it essential to have the most amount of sq. footage on a single floor?

The Monona Terrace Convention Center in Madison, WI is 5 stories.
http://www.mononaterrace.com/confere...oom-capacities

The Duke Energy Cincinnati Convention Center is 3 stories
http://www.cincyusa.com/duke-energy-center/

The Pittsburgh Convention Center is 4 stories
http://www.pittsburghcc.com/cc/floorplans.html

The Louisville convention center is 3 stories
http://www.kyconvention.org/meeting_...imensions.html

The Miami Beach convention center is 3 stories
http://www.miamibeachconvention.com/100/FloorPlans.asp

The San Diego convention center is 3 stories (5 if you count the underground parking).
http://www.visitsandiego.com/facilit...floorplans.cfm

The Mobile convention center is 3 stories
http://www.mobileconventions.com/fac_layout.html

The Utah Valley (Provo) convention center is 3 stories
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...under-way.html

[Spartan]

In a dream world, this site would be perfect for:
-Retail along the Boulevard
-A skinny park running through it to connect Central Park and Myriad Gardens
-Housing developed on the rest of the site
-Also, narrowing the streets that run through the site and adding on-street parking would make this an Uptown-style development in Dallas

Let's just keep pushing for that dream world, eh?

Can you build "up" with a convention center? Are there 5 story convention centers that make sense with floor plans? Or is it essential to have the most amount of sq. footage on a single floor?

There are a lot of cities that "make it work" in a sensible way, but generally speaking, it is considered a strength for a CVB to be able to market the most contiguous column-free exhibition floor space as possible.