IKEA

[semisimple]

At least their strip malls are "nice." Ours all become bingo halls 20 years after they're built.

Believe me, Dallas and Austin have the same problem OKC does, if not worse because of the infamous Texas frontage roads making such establishments highly visible...for every "nice" strip center in those cities, there is one with a bingo hall, a check cashing store(s), a pawn shop, and a shady liquor store (and likely a tarot card reader, too, in Austin at least). The I-35 corridor in north-central Austin (a bad part of town anyway) looks very blighted largely because of run-down strip centers and some corridors in Dallas and Houston are even worse.

[MikeLucky]

NW Expressway, 2nd Street Edmond, I-35 Moore, I-40 Yukon, I-240 southside, I-35 Norman, SE 29th MWC, and last but not least, Memorial Road. We are a city defined by strip mall corridors.

You quite obviously decided that you just wanted to complain. You are complaining about some of the newest developments in the metro and somehow equated them to bingo halls. lol. I'm just going to add you to the same list as Thunder... congrats

[Spartan]

You quite obviously decided that you just wanted to complain. You are complaining about some of the newest developments in the metro and somehow equated them to bingo halls. lol. I'm just going to add you to the same list as Thunder... congrats

So you love strip malls I take it? Go ahead and add me to whatever list you want, sorry if I made you think. I don't know how much it matters whether the sign out front says Academy Sports and Outdoors or Bingo Hall. It all degenerates into that eventually.

[MikeLucky]

So you love strip malls I take it? Go ahead and add me to whatever list you want, sorry if I made you think. I don't know how much it matters whether the sign out front says Academy Sports and Outdoors or Bingo Hall. It all degenerates into that eventually.

I love what's going on in Moore, Norman and MWC in what you are bemoaning as strip malls... Drive up I-35 through the entire city and tell me what you see... people from out of state see a lot of crap. But, when they drive by North Park and 19th Street in Moore or 29th in MWC they see GROWTH and vibrancy. What did those areas look like 10 years ago? There sure as hell weren't people choosing to specifically go to those places to go eat or entertain themselves. And now they are in droves.

But, to you they are just bingo halls in waiting. lol. What a joke. What do you think they SHOULD have done at those developments? Is it a curse that some of the businesses SHARE a wall. Is that what makes it a future bingo hall and defacto blight to our lifestyle?

And soon the outlet shops in Yukon will be open... I can't wait to see what kind of squalor you envision for that development. Meanwhile people from all over Oklahoma (and farther) will be going there to shop, spend money, and increase our tax revenue.

[lasomeday]

On 19th Street in Moore I see cheap strip malls and smell raw sewage and tons of traffic in an area that is not functional with no pedestrian access. I don't see any of this area being vibrant in 10 or 15 years.

The outlet mall is not quite as bad, but it is ugly and made of cheap material. It will be an sales tax draw for the city.

[MikeLucky]

On 19th Street in Moore I see cheap strip malls and smell raw sewage and tons of traffic in an area that is not functional with no pedestrian access. I don't see any of this area being vibrant in 10 or 15 years.

The outlet mall is not quite as bad, but it is ugly and made of cheap material. It will be an sales tax draw for the city.

Wow, between you and spartan and your sophisticated architectural palettes, life here in the plains must just bore the **** out of you guys.

It's an outlet mall... 95% of the people shopping there could give two ****s about the quality of the build... they want $100 coach purses and $50 nikes.

And people like you and spartan, what with your discerning tastes wouldn't shop at a schlock house like that anyway, so why are you complaining so much? And heaven forbid you end up in Moore with it's sewage smell.... strangely enough I've never heard that complaint before and the place is always packed with people that are quite obviously enjoying themselves, so maybe the disconnect is you.

[lasomeday]

Give it a few years Wichita......

It is boring in the suburbs, there are a few areas that are nice. Just not a lot of the new developments. I am excited about what is happening in Deep Deuce with Level 3 and Aloft.


Back to the topic. I would really like an IKEA. Just don't see that happening. OKC is not on the radar..... yet. Kansas City or St. Louis will get one before us.

[metro]

Wichita, the Outlet Mall is not in Yukon, it's right in the heart of OKC.

[flintysooner]

I recall reading that IKEA's requirements included a 15 to 30 acre site for a 350K to 400K sf building with parking at 4.5 spaces per 1000 sf and 80% of 2 Million population within 60 minutes drive time.

Centennial, CO was supposed to open in July 2011 as I recall.

Unless those requirements have changed which is very possible it looks like any place around Oklahoma City would not really fit.

[lasomeday]

From those requirements Stroud's abandoned Outlet Mall that was destroyed in the tornado would be a possible location.

[MikeLucky]

From those requirements Stroud's abandoned Outlet Mall that was destroyed in the tornado would be a possible location.

Strangely enough, Stroud would fit the bill perfectly and would probably do VERY well. It would have 2 to 2.5 million within 60 minutes drive time.

[onthestrip]

From those requirements Stroud's abandoned Outlet Mall that was destroyed in the tornado would be a possible location.

Will never happen. And why would they go to Stroud? There is no mall, it is only a old cracked asphalt parking lot. There is nothing there so there is nothing to be abandoned. Do you also think they will rely on thousands of people to make the 50 min drive everyday to shop there? OKC is going to have to grow to a metro population of around 2 million before we are considered. Lets have this talk in a decade.

[Larry OKC]

???

After the tornado damage the mall was indeed abandoned and then bulldozed down to the parking lot. The outlet mall was built there with the 'thousands of people to make the 50 min drive everyday to shop there" idea in mind. I don't know what he avg daily traffic count for the turnpike is, but I don't really see a destination retail (outlet mall, IKEA) as being all that different. Does it mean that Tulsa & OKC residents are going to be traveling through Stroud every day in mass? No, of course not, but there are many that pass through that area daily. You have to give them a reason to stop (other than at the McDonalds plaza to get a snack and some gas). If someone from here is willing to drive to the Dallas area for an IKEA, why not to Stroud...still have to get the stuff home.

[Spartan]

Warning: The following is a back-and-forth that takes place with people who are on totally different levels of understanding and will likely not agree on anything

I love what's going on in Moore, Norman and MWC in what you are bemoaning as strip malls... Drive up I-35 through the entire city and tell me what you see... people from out of state see a lot of crap. But, when they drive by North Park and 19th Street in Moore or 29th in MWC they see GROWTH and vibrancy.

When I drive by "North Park" in Norman I see red dirt, tumbleweeds, parking lots, and EIFS. In other words, I see exactly what it is. When I drive by 19th Street in Moore, I see parking lots full of cars and lit-up interstate-size signs, oh, and a Wal-Mart. Is there something I'm missing there, because I fail to see this as some kind of model urban utopia. It's actually a piss-poor urban model, very unsustainable, that is comprised of buildings that are not even meant to still look nice after 20 years. *When I drive past the MWC Town Center, I see an attempt at something with more permanence that probably stands apart from other retail corridors in the metro. It is still kind of underwhelming for the ideas I look for in quality developments, but it at least makes an effort in terms of sustainable site layout, and I like the way they are expanding the town center portion to connect to the neighborhood in the back.

What did those areas look like 10 years ago? There sure as hell weren't people choosing to specifically go to those places to go eat or entertain themselves. And now they are in droves.

10 years ago, each case is different. MWC was a redevelopment project. Norman was an airfield. Moore was greenfield, farmland, etc.

But, to you they are just bingo halls in waiting. lol. What a joke. What do you think they SHOULD have done at those developments? Is it a curse that some of the businesses SHARE a wall. Is that what makes it a future bingo hall and defacto blight to our lifestyle?

No, it's hardly a curse to share a WALL, in fact, I wish these things would share a STREET, but the suburban model holds that that would be a curse. Eau contraire. And my reasoning, as an urban design student, is a joke?--then what is your reasoning, an LOL riot? And yes, these developments, and their fakeness, unsustainability, short-sighted values, and I could go on, ARE a blight to our lifestyle. Even though you were trying to put words in my mouth, I won't necessarily disagree with that. Some of us don't want to live in an urban environment modeled after WICHITA or GRAPEVINE.

And soon the outlet shops in Yukon will be open... I can't wait to see what kind of squalor you envision for that development. Meanwhile people from all over Oklahoma (and farther) will be going there to shop, spend money, and increase our tax revenue.

Do I even have to explain what kind of squalor I envision for the future of the outlet mall in OKC city limits? The project is covered by freaking colored tarps, give me a break. I support the project and the city's use of taxpayer resources to land the project because it IS an economic development investment and a strong opportunity to bring in more sales, but come on, the project design is hideous.

Project design and economic development merits are two completely different things. Just because I attack strip malls doesn't entirely speak to how I would attempt to avoid more of them. It is very possible to recoup these investments and sales tax growth opportunities in ways that also contribute a positive, sustainable built environment. We just don't pursue those opportunities in Oklahoma because we don't look outside the box, and because we actually PREFER the cheapest and crappiest way to do things here. To quote a former public works director, "slightly better than crappy makes us happy!"

[G.Walker]

Spartan, the Fritt's team is currently proposing a major mixed-use development on S 25th St. Behind the new Target in Moore, its supposed to have 2-3 levels, with lofts at the top floors and commercial/retail on bottom floors, renderings were in the July edition of Moore Monthly, I suggest you pick up a copy, the project is designed by TAP, but it's not on their website...

http://www.mooremonthly.com/

[Spartan]

I have a copy of it actually. I like what they are planning on doing, but I am holding my breath because I have seen a lot of failed such developments. UNP was supposed to be like this also, and I heard like 5 years ago that Fritts Farm would be "new urbanist" however I have a 2-3 year expiry date until I stop believing plans.

[G.Walker]

Found it, see pg.4

http://fritts.net/wp-content/uploads...ly_article.pdf

[G.Walker]

It seems to me the Fritt's team is slowly figuring it out stating "We could work, live, and shop without getting in our car" , I think it will come to fruition, they have came through on all their other developments so far...

[metro]

Fritts Farm is one of the better developments this metro has seen

[ljbab728]

Warning: The following is a back-and-forth that takes place with people who are on totally different levels of understanding and will likely not agree on anything



When I drive by "North Park" in Norman I see red dirt, tumbleweeds, parking lots, and EIFS. In other words, I see exactly what it is. When I drive by 19th Street in Moore, I see parking lots full of cars and lit-up interstate-size signs, oh, and a Wal-Mart. Is there something I'm missing there, because I fail to see this as some kind of model urban utopia. It's actually a piss-poor urban model, very unsustainable, that is comprised of buildings that are not even meant to still look nice after 20 years. *When I drive past the MWC Town Center, I see an attempt at something with more permanence that probably stands apart from other retail corridors in the metro. It is still kind of underwhelming for the ideas I look for in quality developments, but it at least makes an effort in terms of sustainable site layout, and I like the way they are expanding the town center portion to connect to the neighborhood in the back.



10 years ago, each case is different. MWC was a redevelopment project. Norman was an airfield. Moore was greenfield, farmland, etc.



No, it's hardly a curse to share a WALL, in fact, I wish these things would share a STREET, but the suburban model holds that that would be a curse. Eau contraire. And my reasoning, as an urban design student, is a joke?--then what is your reasoning, an LOL riot? And yes, these developments, and their fakeness, unsustainability, short-sighted values, and I could go on, ARE a blight to our lifestyle. Even though you were trying to put words in my mouth, I won't necessarily disagree with that. Some of us don't want to live in an urban environment modeled after WICHITA or GRAPEVINE.



Do I even have to explain what kind of squalor I envision for the future of the outlet mall in OKC city limits? The project is covered by freaking colored tarps, give me a break. I support the project and the city's use of taxpayer resources to land the project because it IS an economic development investment and a strong opportunity to bring in more sales, but come on, the project design is hideous.

Project design and economic development merits are two completely different things. Just because I attack strip malls doesn't entirely speak to how I would attempt to avoid more of them. It is very possible to recoup these investments and sales tax growth opportunities in ways that also contribute a positive, sustainable built environment. We just don't pursue those opportunities in Oklahoma because we don't look outside the box, and because we actually PREFER the cheapest and crappiest way to do things here. To quote a former public works director, "slightly better than crappy makes us happy!"

Welcome home, Spartan. We've missed your eternal positive and optimistic outlook on everything.

[blendd]

FYI - Ikea opened in Denver today

Your pal,
blendd

[Spartan]

Fritts Farm is one of the better developments this metro has seen

That's not a pleasant thought, however.. we just don't get good development, that is just the way it is.

What IS a pleasant thought however...some meatballs from Ikea. Mmmm. Here's hoping it happens just for the meatballs.

[flintysooner]

Ikea’s Virginia Manufacturing Plant Workers Vote for Union

Workers at Ikea’s U.S. furniture factory voted to form a union, a victory for the labor movement seeking to rebound from record-low membership at private companies.

Employees at the plant in Danville, Virginia, voted 221-69 today to join the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, the National Labor Relations Board said. The factory, operated by a subsidiary called Swedwood, makes low- cost bookcases and coffee tables for sale in Ikea’s 37 blue and yellow U.S. big-box stores.

...

“The primary issue that has driven this campaign from the beginning has been a plantation-like attitude by management,” said Bill Street, director of the woodworking department for the union who led the organizing campaign. “Mandatory overtime in New York City may not be a huge deal, but in a rural, family oriented small community with strong religious values, this treatment is unacceptable.”
Low Wages

Workers complained about low wages, discrimination, long working hours, eliminated raises, frenzied pace and mandatory overtime. Workers would find out on a Friday evening that they’d have to work a weekend shift, and there would be disciplinary action for workers who didn’t show up, Street said.

In addition, six black former employees filed complaints with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission claiming they have faced racial discrimination at the factory.

[MikeLucky]

Warning: The following is a back-and-forth that takes place with people who are on totally different levels of understanding and will likely not agree on anything



When I drive by "North Park" in Norman I see red dirt, tumbleweeds, parking lots, and EIFS. In other words, I see exactly what it is. When I drive by 19th Street in Moore, I see parking lots full of cars and lit-up interstate-size signs, oh, and a Wal-Mart. Is there something I'm missing there, because I fail to see this as some kind of model urban utopia. It's actually a piss-poor urban model, very unsustainable, that is comprised of buildings that are not even meant to still look nice after 20 years. *When I drive past the MWC Town Center, I see an attempt at something with more permanence that probably stands apart from other retail corridors in the metro. It is still kind of underwhelming for the ideas I look for in quality developments, but it at least makes an effort in terms of sustainable site layout, and I like the way they are expanding the town center portion to connect to the neighborhood in the back.



10 years ago, each case is different. MWC was a redevelopment project. Norman was an airfield. Moore was greenfield, farmland, etc.



No, it's hardly a curse to share a WALL, in fact, I wish these things would share a STREET, but the suburban model holds that that would be a curse. Eau contraire. And my reasoning, as an urban design student, is a joke?--then what is your reasoning, an LOL riot? And yes, these developments, and their fakeness, unsustainability, short-sighted values, and I could go on, ARE a blight to our lifestyle. Even though you were trying to put words in my mouth, I won't necessarily disagree with that. Some of us don't want to live in an urban environment modeled after WICHITA or GRAPEVINE.



Do I even have to explain what kind of squalor I envision for the future of the outlet mall in OKC city limits? The project is covered by freaking colored tarps, give me a break. I support the project and the city's use of taxpayer resources to land the project because it IS an economic development investment and a strong opportunity to bring in more sales, but come on, the project design is hideous.

Project design and economic development merits are two completely different things. Just because I attack strip malls doesn't entirely speak to how I would attempt to avoid more of them. It is very possible to recoup these investments and sales tax growth opportunities in ways that also contribute a positive, sustainable built environment. We just don't pursue those opportunities in Oklahoma because we don't look outside the box, and because we actually PREFER the cheapest and crappiest way to do things here. To quote a former public works director, "slightly better than crappy makes us happy!"

Spartan you are just a bundle of joy... I can't wait until the urban design student is finally lured to a more culturally satisfying place that doesn't keep letting him down. Like our boy Will said, it'll increase the IQ in both places.

[Spartan]

Wichita Sooner, go back to the oasis of inferior suburban development of Wichita. I can resort to that stuff too.