Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[Teo9969]

nvm

[jn1780]

So we're talking about 1/3 of an Olympic sized swimming pool?!

Is that even worth it?

No, its around 6.5 billion gallons that will arrive at Hefner. Not 200,000. That was a misunderstanding or misquote by the news.

20,000 acre feet is the correct number.
1 acre feet = 325,821 gallon

Edit: sorry backward conversion labels. Lol

[Teo9969]

No, its around 6.5 billion that will arrive at Hefner. Not 200,000. That was a misunderstanding or misquote by the news.

The news clearly way miscalculated. They also said 30,000 acre feet instead of 20,000...if that's the case, it's actually a bit over 9.75 billion

[jn1780]

The news clearly way miscalculated. They also said 30,000 acre feet instead of 20,000...if that's the case, it's actually a bit over 9.75 billion

Yes, thats the initial release. 10,000 acre feet won't make it to Hefner. Less would be lost if they actually released it after a couple of days of really good rain. I don't why choose January with spring around the corner. They must really be pestimistic about spring rainfall.

[law]

You said you were only telling the truth but this is not the truth. There is a specific amount of water being released.

Water from Canton Lake headed to OKC | KFOR.com ? Oklahoma City News & Weather from KFOR Television, Oklahoma's News Channel 4

The specific number is 30,000 acre/ft of water. That is the intended release. Canton is so low now, it is unknown when the water will stop flowing. Silt studies have not been done since 1977. The water could quit flowing thru the gate sooner than 30,000. It might stop at 25,000 or some other number. As I have said, we are in unknown territory.

Should we bring in pumps and pump out every last drop?

And again, the article says Canton Lake was built for OKC water, ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

[mkjeeves]

The specific number is 30,000 acre/ft of water. That is the intended release. Canton is so low now, it is unknown when the water will stop flowing. Silt studies have not been done since 1977. The water could quit flowing thru the gate sooner than 30,000. It might stop at 25,000 or some other number. As I have said, we are in unknown territory.

Should we bring in pumps and pump out every last drop?

And again, the article says Canton Lake was built for OKC water, ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

I caught that bad reporting when I saw it at 6 and 10. Shame they can't get the basic facts of a story right.
From the COE website:

HISTORY AND DEVELOPMENT - Congress authorized the Canton Lake project in 1938 for flood control. The Flood Control Acts of 1946 and 1948 authorized irrigation and municipal water supply storage for the city of Enid, Okla. Because Enid did not access its storage rights, in 1955 Oklahoma City began a series of 5-year contracts with the federal government to utilize Canton’s water storage. Both the irrigation storage and the water storage were reassigned to Oklahoma City through Section 102 of the Water Resources Development Act of 1990. This project was started in 1940 but World War II temporarily halted construction. After the war, the Corps of Engineers resumed work, and the project was completed in late 1948 and formally dedicated in May of 1949. The cost to build the Canton Project was $11 million.

[BoulderSooner]

Not only do I live in the state, I have lived in OKC, my husband was born and raised there, and I have a lot of family living there. We have to start somewhere. Even 1% is a group we must seek. All the things you mentioned are in the works, or being done now. Several TV stations were here today. Mostly, the stories were too bad for Canton. TV stations need revenue, revenue comes from ads, big companies pay for ads. Their prospective is the news.

Please believe me, it is not my intent to scold. Before the release, the problem was Canton's. We have had many meetings with people who control the water. Truly, all we asked was for a delay, an opportunity for Hefner to fill with whatever spring rains and ground water will be available before the choice was made to drain Canton. OKCWT did not do that. Now the problem is yours. If there are no rains above Canton after this release, there will be no water. If there are no rains for 5 years, there will be no water for 5 years. There are at least 200,000 people totally dependent on Hefner water. Don't you think they are owed an explanation? What if the drought is even worse this year? Don't you think residents have a right to all the information?

If I was a vindictive person, I would say too bad, and hope that OKC will feel the effects of the drought first hand. Instead, I'm trying to warn you of the difficult situation some of you may face. I hope that will not be the case. You may have numbers here, but what will you say when DFW wants water? After all, they need drinking water too. Why would you think the few of you could stand in the way of a larger group of people who also need water?

Pray for rain. Especially those in real need.

now or later doesn't change anything for OKC ... no water is going to be lost or let down stream .. this won't fill hefner ..

waiting would have added now benefit for OKC

[Snowman]

The cost to build the Canton Project was $11 million.

Adjusted for inflation would be around $101,365,395.18

[law]

Yes, thats the initial release. 10,000 acre feet won't make it to Hefner. Less would be lost if they actually released it after a couple of days of really good rain. I don't why choose January with spring around the corner. They must really be pestimistic about spring rainfall.

Or, the release is not necessary at this time. With Hefner 2/3rds full, there is no immediate need. They could have waited another month or two as we asked. Water is fungible, OKC officials have not nor will they ever say they want water for any other reason than drinking.

If they are that pessimistic, shouldn't OKC be taking much more drastic actions. If they are that pessimistic, then they are proving my points.

[law]

now or later doesn't change anything for OKC ... no water is going to be lost or let down stream .. this won't fill hefner ..

waiting would have added now benefit for OKC

Yes, it would have. Waiting for spring rains would have saved Canton for later, and at least given Canton Lake (not the town) a chance to survive. There is more rainfall between Canton and OKC, than above Canton. Once the water in Canton is gone, there will be NO more until it rains above Canton.

Doesn't OKC have some responsibility to be good stewards of the resources they use?

[Anonymous.]

I know this isn't the weather thread, but forecast models showing active pattern coming up for first few weeks of February.

Looks like rain and snow with multiple systems.

[law]

I know this isn't the weather thread, but forecast models showing active pattern coming up for first few weeks of February.

Looks like rain and snow with multiple systems.

Hopefully, above Canton, not just between Canton and OKC. We'll be watching all the gauges.

[OSUFan]

What have the communities and farms surrounding Canton lake done to conserve water than OKC is not currently doing?

[BoulderSooner]

Yes, it would have. Waiting for spring rains would have saved Canton for later, and at least given Canton Lake (not the town) a chance to survive. There is more rainfall between Canton and OKC, than above Canton. Once the water in Canton is gone, there will be NO more until it rains above Canton.

Doesn't OKC have some responsibility to be good stewards of the resources they use?

again i said for OKC ...

[Buffalo Bill]

I think the long-term viability of Canton Lake as a recreational resource will be waning. This isn't necessarily due strictly to the extended drought, but more so due to agricultural usage of the Ogallala Aquifer. Much of the drainage basin of the North Canadian (Beaver) River lies in recharge zones to this aquifer, which has been drawn down at alarming rates in the past 20 years. My belief is that it will end up much like Lake Meredith in the Texas Panhandle, once a massive reservoir, now barely maintaining water. Lake(?) Optima, which is on the Beaver River, should be the cautionary tale that Canton should heed.

[OKCisOK4me]

Its 20,000 acre feet of water which is about 6.5 billion gallons. 200,000 gallons would be less than a Olympic size pool. It would be nice if we were only talking about that much water. Lol

Yeah...my first thought when I awoke today was "200,000 gallons? That's not right" lol.

[law]

I think the long-term viability of Canton Lake as a recreational resource will be waning. This isn't necessarily due strictly to the extended drought, but more so due to agricultural usage of the Ogallala Aquifer. Much of the drainage basin of the North Canadian (Beaver) River lies in recharge zones to this aquifer, which has been drawn down at alarming rates in the past 20 years. My belief is that it will end up much like Lake Meredith in the Texas Panhandle, once a massive reservoir, now barely maintaining water. Lake(?) Optima, which is on the Beaver River, should be the cautionary tale that Canton should heed.

It is a cautionary tale OKC should heed. Canton has no control of the water in the Lake. Only the Corps, OKCWT, OWRB have any say. OKC will be out of water.

Around Canton there are only a few irrigation systems. The big systems are in the panhandle. Those are individual permits with the OWRB, none irrigate from Canton Lake.

Before we moved to city water, our well only produced 4 gal/per minute. Barely enough to call it a water well. We managed our water use VERY carefully. We were able to care for a sizable garden that produced more than we (and family and friends) could eat. So I know it can be done.

[BoulderSooner]

Okc won't ever be "out of water". At least not in this century

[ou48A]

I think the long-term viability of Canton Lake as a recreational resource will be waning. This isn't necessarily due strictly to the extended drought, but more so due to agricultural usage of the Ogallala Aquifer. Much of the drainage basin of the North Canadian (Beaver) River lies in recharge zones to this aquifer, which has been drawn down at alarming rates in the past 20 years. My belief is that it will end up much like Lake Meredith in the Texas Panhandle, once a massive reservoir, now barely maintaining water. Lake(?) Optima, which is on the Beaver River, should be the cautionary tale that Canton should heed.

Once you get very far west of the 100th meridian many natural springs that were once common are now long gone.
As they make their way off the Ogallala Aquifer rivers such as the Beaver and Cimarron rivers for all practical proposes have run dry 99% of the time for the past 40 years or more that I know of.
Since Canton Lake has pretty much maintained its water levels during this entire 40 years except during periods drought I do not believe further depletion of the Olagala will have very much if any impact on Canton Lake water levels

[Buffalo Bill]

Once you get very far west of the 100th meridian many natural springs that were once common are now long gone.
As they make their way off the Ogallala Aquifer rivers such as the Beaver and Cimarron rivers for all practical proposes have run dry 99% of the time for the past 40 years or more that I know of.
Since Canton Lake has pretty much maintained its water levels during this entire 40 years except during periods drought I do not believe further depletion of the Olagala will have very much if any impact on Canton Lake water levels

In a similar manner that it had no effect on Lake Meredith, right?

[ou48A]

In a similar manner that it had no effect on Lake Meredith, right?

It’s a different situation.
The Lake Meredith area is in a far more arid area and that will never change.

[law]

Okc won't ever be "out of water". At least not in this century

200,000 of you may soon be, def sooner than the end of this century.

It’s a different situation.
The Lake Meredith area is in a far more arid area and that will never change.

Actually the catchment area for Canton Lake and Lake Meredith are not so different or far apart.

[ou48A]

Actually the catchment area for Canton Lake and Lake Meredith are not so different or far apart.

There is very little run off to Lake Canton from the panhandle area particularly as you move west.
The great bulk of the water that fills Lake Canton comes from east of the 100 meridian and well east of the Ogallala aquifer.

Having lived travel in this area extensively while dealing with numerous land owners, many geologist and others who follow the high plains water issues closely I have heard what they say and I have seen these rivers perhaps thousands of times going back to the late 1960’s.

Lake Meredith suffers from a much higher evaporation rates. When Meredith water reaches a certain height it soaks into the aquifer, but this only occur 2 or 3 times in a decade in recent years. There is also very a large demand for Meredith water from many community’s in the area. The water is pumped to towns as far away as south of Lubbock. Without doing the math and knowing exactly how many people Hefner serves the population that Meredith serves may well be more than Hefner. Oklahoma won a court battle that required that a certain about of water be discharged from Lake Meredith.
Meredith’s run off comes from a far more arid area. There is just not near as much rain for it to fill it even in normal years.

[ljbab728]

The specific number is 30,000 acre/ft of water. That is the intended release. Canton is so low now, it is unknown when the water will stop flowing. Silt studies have not been done since 1977. The water could quit flowing thru the gate sooner than 30,000. It might stop at 25,000 or some other number. As I have said, we are in unknown territory.

Should we bring in pumps and pump out every last drop?

And again, the article says Canton Lake was built for OKC water, ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

I understand your concern but your obvious exaggerations don't help your position. The lake has a capacity of 111,000 acre feet. Is it 2/3 empty now?

Whether it was built for Oklahoma City's water supply really isn't the issue.

[OUSoonerfan3]

Canton Lake

At the time of this posting, the conservation pool is at 38%.