Wheeler District

[Scott5114]

Plus, even if they are going to plant new trees 20 years from now...that's 20 years worth of CO₂ that isn't being taken out of the atmosphere. And mature trees suck down more CO₂ than young ones, so even if they planted new trees today it would still have an overall negative impact on air quality. Plus, there's no guarantee that the plans for this parcel will even come to fruition as planned. The Stage Center lot is still vacant, after all.

This is in no way a good thing.

[ABryant]

The piles of trash are bulldozed campsites. The bulldozed trees are open season for erosion.

[king183]

Southsider and I must have had the same idea. Here is a closer look at all the trash from the camp in the inlet. Awful.

[runOKC]

Southsider and I must have had the same idea. Here is a closer look at all the trash from the camp in the inlet. Awful.

That’s depressing.

[5alive]

So disgusting

[Dob Hooligan]

A couple things I have learned through 40 years doing business in the urban area of OKC.

I’m guessing the trees are cottonwood. I have been told they are a species the government wants to stop expanding in town, because they clog air conditioning units during the spring.

The area being cleared looks to me that it has a gray area regarding property lines. It is not clearly and easily defined if it is private or city property. Laws regarding who can call the police and remove squatters are pretty clear, but frustrating for the average person who sees a problem and thinks the area just needs to be cleared with one phone call. Private property requires the owner (or their agent) to call for removal, and they have to have told the trespasser they are not welcome prior to the police call. Homeless people claim they are on property in the area that is not privately owned, and lacking a fence of clear marking, the police can’t remove the trespassers.

The homeless know and are smart about exploiting these gray areas. They love trees, because it is easy to set up a campsite that’s hidden. I had a guy who set up less that 10 feet in the trees south of my property that we did not notice for a year. He used green nylon tarps to wall off his area and eventually had 400sf set up with furniture and bedding.

[catcherinthewry]

Those weren't cottonwoods.

[Canoe]

Wheeler will end up planting hundreds of trees on this parcel, just as they already have done on the other side of Western.

Could they plant some of those trees now? It is hard to hide behind a sapling.

[Wild]

Shoot first, aim later. There may be some underground utility work or another legitimate reason that required the tree removal.

[Rover]

Shoot first, aim later. There may be some underground utility work or another legitimate reason that required the tree removal.

So, what is your aim first solution?

As I used to always tell my employees.... when you come to me with a complaint/criticism, bring a solution that is thought out, practical, and workable. So, let's hear yours.

[PaddyShack]

Is the parking lot in the lower left corner permanent or temporary?

[shawnw]

Based on the master plan from the website, seems like no, there will be commercial buildings in that spot.

[soonerguru]

Could they plant some of those trees now? It is hard to hide behind a sapling.

+1. Sorry if I am skeptical. Farcically, when MAPS 1 was pushed, the term "reforestation" was actually used in literature to describe plans for the riverfront. LMAO.

I'm convinced that this city has a knee-jerk hatred of trees that is subconscious. It is disgusting and sad. Places like LA literally get no rainfall and they have more greenery than OKC. It is ridiculous.

The only reason people ever thought Tulsa was kinda awesome was because Tulsa developers don't reflexively destroy mature trees there as a hobby. Just look at the difference between our two major park developments. It is a stark contrast. Getting this city to embrace trees has been a cause for my entire adult life, but just like our crazy state politics, it is a battle that I'm clearly losing.

[Wild]

+1. Sorry if I am skeptical. Farcically, when MAPS 1 was pushed, the term "reforestation" was actually used in literature to describe plans for the riverfront. LMAO.

I'm convinced that this city has a knee-jerk hatred of trees that is subconscious. It is disgusting and sad. Places like LA literally get no rainfall and they have more greenery than OKC. It is ridiculous.

The only reason people ever thought Tulsa was kinda awesome was because Tulsa developers don't reflexively destroy mature trees there as a hobby. Just look at the difference between our two major park developments. It is a stark contrast. Getting this city to embrace trees has been a cause for my entire adult life, but just like our crazy state politics, it is a battle that I'm clearly losing.

This development has probably planted more trees than the total of every other OKC home builder in 2021. The final tree budget for this development will probably be several million dollars. Your complaints about not enough trees in OKC are valid but going after this location says a lot about your motivation. Please highlight the tree clearing happening nearly every week in NW OKC & N Edmond.

[LakeEffect]

This development has probably planted more trees than the total of every other OKC home builder in 2021. The final tree budget for this development will probably be several million dollars. Your complaints about not enough trees in OKC are valid but going after this location says a lot about your motivation. Please highlight the tree clearing happening nearly every week in NW OKC & N Edmond.

THIS THIS THIS. (Edmond does have a new tree protection ordinance in place, so it's really just N OKC and the County we have to complain about now.)

[PhiAlpha]

This development has probably planted more trees than the total of every other OKC home builder in 2021. The final tree budget for this development will probably be several million dollars. Your complaints about not enough trees in OKC are valid but going after this location says a lot about your motivation. Please highlight the tree clearing happening nearly every week in NW OKC & N Edmond.

Spot on. This has always seemed like such an asinine way to develop a neighborhood. Everyone always complains about the lack of trees in the OKC are. So what do builders do? Find some of the best forested spots on the east side of the metro and clear cut them to build neighborhoods that looks just like the treeless ones on the west side of the metro. I get that it’s probably cheaper to develop a neighborhood that way but it’s such stupid long term thinking. If you want to build on a lot with out trees, why not just buy cheaper land out west where there weren't trees in the first place? Lots of crap builders in the metro.

[king183]

This development has probably planted more trees than the total of every other OKC home builder in 2021. The final tree budget for this development will probably be several million dollars. Your complaints about not enough trees in OKC are valid but going after this location says a lot about your motivation. Please highlight the tree clearing happening nearly every week in NW OKC & N Edmond.

All one needs to do is walk the neighborhood to see how many trees have been planted. Once they are mature, the tree canopy is going to be impressive.

[Pete]

Some of the homeless are back.

The amount of trash these camps generate is massive.

[soonerguru]

So, basically, felling an old growth grove of trees did nothing except destroy more wildlife habitat?

Regarding "camps," why not set up designated camping areas for homeless? Provide sanitation facilities trash bins and other things to keep people safe and to provide an alternative to camping on people's private property. I think this has been tried in other cities but I'm no expert.

[Laramie]

Some of the homeless are back.

The amount of trash these camps generate is massive.

So, basically, felling an old growth grove of trees did nothing except destroy more wildlife habitat?

Regarding "camps," why not set up designated camping areas for homeless? Provide sanitation facilities trash bins and other things to keep people safe and to provide an alternative to camping on people's private property. I think this has been tried in other cities but I'm no expert.

Sounds like a good idea Soonerguru to have several designated camps throughout the city with facilities much like at State Parks. The 'Homeless Shelters' could also provide services (process SNAP benefits) register camp enrollees. We're living in a new era where 'homelessness' should be addressed and not ignored.

Require the homeless to clean up after themselves; provide trash barrels etc. Have restroom & shower facilities with soap, hot and cold running water--assign to the Parks Department for routine sanitation and clean up in conjunction with the city's Water Department.

These agencies and departments could work together to monitor these camps including Safety--Police & Fire, State, City & County Health Departments. There's money in President Biden's recently passed bills that hasn't been used. We need someone to coordinate this...

Would help keep our city clean if we had all departments and agencies working together.

Pete, you mentioned that you felt uneasy walking through these areas. I dropped a homeless person off to that very area some years ago. Paid him to mow my lawn and drove him to this area--definitely remember this area because I use to fish nearby. Homeless will leave trash because there's nowhere to put it.

[Pete]

So, basically, felling an old growth grove of trees did nothing except destroy more wildlife habitat?

The trees are gone, probably time to let this go and move on with life. This happens almost every day of the week around OKC to make room for housing tracts and all types of development; I don't understand the fixation.


This is a small fraction of the people that were there dumping huge amounts of trash into the river.

The camps will now be much easier to detect and deal with. Plus, you don't have scores of people coming out of the woods when you are using the river path.

[Laramie]

Right at Sheridan near Valero gas station--there's a new underpass (next to McDonald's) where the homeless have attempted to set up camp. I've seen Oklahoma City Police stop and make them move tents and sleeping bags and force them to clean up and move on.

Thank you, Oklahoma City Police. Let's continue to fund our police and give them the necessary resources (new vehicles, equipment etc) they need--same goes for the Fire Department.

[soonerguru]

Sounds like a good idea Soonerguru to have several designated camps throughout the city with facilities much like at State Parks. The 'Homeless Shelters' could also provide services (process SNAP benefits) register camp enrollees. We're living in a new era where 'homelessness' should be addressed and not ignored.

Require the homeless to clean up after themselves; provide trash barrels etc. Have restroom & shower facilities with soap, hot and cold running water--assign to the Parks Department for routine sanitation and clean up in conjunction with the city's Water Department.

These agencies and departments could work together to monitor these camps including Safety--Police & Fire, State, City & County Health Departments. There's money in President Biden's recently passed bills that hasn't been used. We need someone to coordinate this...

Would help keep our city clean if we had all departments and agencies working together.

Pete, you mentioned that you felt uneasy walking through these areas. I dropped a homeless person off to that very area some years ago. Paid him to mow my lawn and drove him to this area--definitely remember this area because I use to fish nearby. Homeless will leave trash because there's nowhere to put it.

I think this would actually be popular with voters. Remember, during polling of MAPS 4 options, remedies to homelessness were the number one issue with OKC residents regardless of political ideology or party identification. There are two camps (not a pun): folks who view this as a public nuisance (people taking. dump in their yard, leaving trash everywhere, pandhandling, etc.); and folks who are driven by their conscience to seek solutions to help homeless people. And, perhaps people in both categories.

The sense is that it is out of control. The data may not indicate that but that's what people feel, because they see so many homeless people all around OKC, not just concentrated downtown. And, I do believe people want to help, or they are willing to try different things to address the problem.

Unlike Austin, which allowed people to pitch tents wherever, I think a handful of designated camping areas could be a good solution, but obviously there is the potential for these to not go well if the planning and execution fail.

[Pete]

The problem with any type of organized camp is the same with the various shelters:

1) The homeless don't want to live in designated areas; they want to create their own camps.
2) Many don't want to obey rules and there is significant stealing, violence, being high, cooking drugs, etc.
3) As soon as any type of order is imposed, most will move elsewhere.

And who takes responsibility for these camps? Huge property / insurance issues.

Who polices them -- you can't just allow people to commit violence, steal and buy/sell/manufacture drugs.


The bottom line is that the huge majority of homeless don't want to follow any rules and for any sort of living situation -- indoor or outdoor -- that creates massive problems.

I'm sad to say, there are no good solutions otherwise cities around the world would be employing them. Almost all have tried. In less tolerant countries they merely forcibly round them up and lock them up periodically.

All you can really do is have mobile outreach programs to advise about the litany of services. But as has been pointed out elsewhere, you can't force anyone to do anything (other than chase them out of a place and just have them go somewhere else).


I ran a nonprofit in LA that had a homeless outreach program and was part of a city-wide alliance. All that really can be done is advise them of the various services, offer to get them a ride, and hope they use them. The huge majority never will, at least in any way that makes a lasting difference.

I hate to sound defeatist but it's largely a problem without good answers.

[Laramie]

Much of your observation Pete has merit. Homeless people don't want to follow rules especially rules in which they feel they aren't apart of the process. So, they can either be apart of the process or live where there are no rules which subjects them to violence without protection.

Maybe we need a separate thread for 'Homelessness.'