University Town Center

[onthestrip]

And it only took 15 years for a Hobby Lobby to open here.

It will take another 45 for the arena are to fill up, with more crappy strip centers and mid-scale retailers that aren't unique at all.

Again, any use versus highest use is the issue. These stores, aside from Main Event, have all been in. Norman, and are either relocating or opening a second location. Not exactly inspiring confidence for proper or expedient development of the arena area.

Funny that you think an arena would have any effect on bringing a Hobby Lobby, or high end retailers.

And you are wrong. Its not just Main Event, but PF Changs, Five Below, and a stand alone Sephora are all new to Norman. They arent relocating or opening a second store, these are all new to Norman. I also like how you basically are calling UNP crappy strip center. Usually things like The Ranch, Red Rock Grill, PF Changs, Sephora arent in crappy centers.

[Rover]

Funny that you think an arena would have any effect on bringing a Hobby Lobby, or high end retailers.

And you are wrong. Its not just Main Event, but PF Changs, Five Below, and a stand alone Sephora are all new to Norman. They arent relocating or opening a second store, these are all new to Norman. I also like how you basically are calling UNP crappy strip center. Usually things like The Ranch, Red Rock Grill, PF Changs, Sephora arent in crappy centers.

Sephora and PF Chang's go in everywhere. Red Rock is local to Norman. The Ranch is also OKC local. It isn't like there are a bunch of forward thinking national retailers being drawn to UNP right now. UNP needs some "juice".

[bamarsha]

I think all these "it's all about me and what I want" posts are entertaining. People on this site tend to completely ignore what most Oklahomans want and complain if they don't get exactly what they think we should have. I guess it's a good time-waster between Pete's factual posts.

[jedicurt]

Funny that you think an arena would have any effect on bringing a Hobby Lobby

you are right. all it took for hobby lobby was for the landlord of the original target location to just price them out... guess that is how we will grow UNP, just have all the landlords of other places already in norman make bad business decisions.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I think all these "it's all about me and what I want" posts are entertaining. People on this site tend to completely ignore what most Oklahomans want and complain if they don't get exactly what they think we should have. I guess it's a good time-waster between Pete's factual posts.

I know how out of touch I am. We had a poll at my wife's office to get a gift card for an xmas prize. We asked everyone what their favorite local place to eat was. Out of 55 people the most voted one was Red Lobster with second being Chilis. I realized I am not in the same mind space as most Oklahomans.

[Jeremy Martin]

you are right. all it took for hobby lobby was for the landlord of the original target location to just price them out... guess that is how we will grow UNP, just have all the landlords of other places already in norman make bad business decisions.

If that is really the case then that owner is an idiot.

[jedicurt]

If that is really the case then that owner is an idiot.

i mean look at all of campus corner.... or Ed Nobel Parkway... most of the land owners in Norman fall into this category.

[jn1780]

I think all these "it's all about me and what I want" posts are entertaining. People on this site tend to completely ignore what most Oklahomans want and complain if they don't get exactly what they think we should have. I guess it's a good time-waster between Pete's factual posts.

What do people want? They are probably getting 95% of what is found at the average power center across the nation. The other 5% of the top tier stores are extremely hard to get. The case being made is that an arena will bring those top retailers in. I would love to see if that was the case, but I don't think Norman will let the proposal go that far.

Before the soccer stadium as announced, people kept pitching a stadium(or a temporary one) for Chisolm Creek. That's a development that has been hit with even more of a slowdown than UNP.

[onthestrip]

Sephora and PF Chang's go in everywhere. Red Rock is local to Norman. The Ranch is also OKC local. It isn't like there are a bunch of forward thinking national retailers being drawn to UNP right now. UNP needs some "juice".

Feels like you are moving the goal posts now. It doesnt matter if theres locations in OKC proper or if theyre locally based businesses, we are talking about inside of Norman city limits and what brings them sales tax dollars and ad valorem to the schools and county. And what is a forward thinking retailer? You are too dismissive of the the above mentioned retailers. Sephora and PF Changs do not go everywhere, theyre typically are found in class A centers. Red Rock and The Ranch are two of the nicest dining establishments in the city. And all of them have very strong sales numbers and they bring in lots of revenue for the city.

Seems like UNP already has quite a bit of juice at the moment on its own. Throw in some apartments, which just naturally fits here (arena not necessary for them) and UNP will continue to cook.

[onthestrip]

What do people want? They are probably getting 95% of what is found at the average power center across the nation. The other 5% of the top tier stores are extremely hard to get. The case being made is that an arena will bring those top retailers in. I would love to see if that was the case, but I don't think Norman will let the proposal go that far.

Its kind of laughable to think the most desired nice retailers will come to UNP because there is an arena. An arena wont even be in their calculus. It ill be demographics, traffic, current anchor tenants, established sales numbers of UNP retailers and restaurants. Cheesecake Factory or Lululemon could care less about a college arena.

[jedicurt]

Its kind of laughable to think the most desired nice retailers will come to UNP because there is an arena. An arena wont even be in their calculus. It ill be demographics, traffic, current anchor tenants, established sales numbers of UNP retailers and restaurants. Cheesecake Factory or Lululemon could care less about a college arena.

translation " it's kind of laughable to think that retailers will come to UNP because of something that generates traffic. the thing that helps generate traffic won't even be in their calculations. It will be things that generate traffic."

[FighttheGoodFight]

translation " it's kind of laughable to think that retailers will come to UNP because of something that generates traffic. the thing that helps generate traffic won't even be in their calculations. It will be things that generate traffic."

Isn't it the second most trafficked retail area in the state behind Penn Square Mall? I'd say if those stores aren't in that area already then an arena would not change that.

[jedicurt]

Isn't it the second most trafficked retail area in the state behind Penn Square Mall? I'd say if those stores aren't in that area already then an arena would not change that.

so adding more traffic wouldn't change that? interesting take..... like you do know that even if you are the most trafficked area, it's possible to increase the amount of traffic? it's not a ceiling that you can't go higher than.....

[FighttheGoodFight]

so adding more traffic wouldn't change that? interesting take..... like you do know that even if you are the most trafficked area, it's possible to increase the amount of traffic? it's not a ceiling that you can't go higher than.....

My point is, if the traffic is already the second highest in the state, adding more doesn't increase the odds. I would assume they don't come to UNP for other reasons.

[jedicurt]

My point is, if the traffic is already the second highest in the state, adding more doesn't increase the odds. I would assume they don't come to UNP for other reasons.

it absolutely increases the odds.... when these retailers ask for traffic numbers, they don't care if it's the first highest, or 70th heights, they care about the total number of people there, nothing else.

i mean you said it right there, they aren't coming because it's the second highest... it's another reason, and that reason is that even though it's second heights, it's not enough traffic. this really isn't that difficult.

[PhiAlpha]

My point is, if the traffic is already the second highest in the state, adding more doesn't increase the odds. I would assume they don't come to UNP for other reasons.

I mean this kinda feels like saying that inserting 18,000 people into downtown 43+ nights per year doesn’t increase the odds that someone will open a restaurant downtown due to the fact that a lot of people work down there from 8-5 every day. If you do something that adds a huge influx of people, of course it will increase the odds of businesses deciding to locate there.

[bamarsha]

A lot of businesses require a minimum traffic count to even consider a location... that's in absolute numbers (e.g. 20k/day... each business model is different), not relative numbers (e.g. 2nd busiest in area... 2nd busiest area could still be very low absolute numbers). The median/average income also plays a factor. Even with high traffic rates, you aren't putting a retail store designed for the top 1% of income earners in a concentrated area of bottom 25% income earners. There are several other factors in the equation also. I haven't lived in Norman since the 1990's, so I can't really say much about this specific area without research that I don't have time for.

[onthestrip]

it absolutely increases the odds.... when these retailers ask for traffic numbers, they don't care if it's the first highest, or 70th heights, they care about the total number of people there, nothing else.

i mean you said it right there, they aren't coming because it's the second highest... it's another reason, and that reason is that even though it's second heights, it's not enough traffic. this really isn't that difficult.

Traffic is just one input, and its daily average traffic that they look at. This arena will hardly move that number when it'll be one event every 5 days and this event only brings a couple thousand people on average. Not to mention many of the events are in the evening when people arent buying Lululemon yoga pants. And when it comes to dining, not a ton of people are dining out before or after college basketball games. Its completely incomparable to an NBA arena that PhiAlpha made above.

[Rover]

Traffic is just one input, and its daily average traffic that they look at. This arena will hardly move that number when it'll be one event every 5 days and this event only brings a couple thousand people on average. Not to mention many of the events are in the evening when people arent buying Lululemon yoga pants. And when it comes to dining, not a ton of people are dining out before or after college basketball games. Its completely incomparable to an NBA arena that PhiAlpha made above.

Arena's are big draws for entertainment areas. Fans love immersive experiences and having life around the arena. The days of planning an arena in the middle of nowhere to have a big sea of parking around it are dead. Real estate near the arena has additional value. It's happening all over the country. Norman can get with it or get left behind.