University Town Center

[BoulderSooner]

The Ada comparison is wild nonsense. Without OU Norman is still a large suburb in the OKC metro with a population of over 120k people, that is night and day from Ada out in the middle of nowhere with barely 16k. That kind of hyperbole doesn't help the argument that Norman should approve this TIF when the vote happens.

lol with out OU it would not be over 120k ...

it would be smaller then moore

[David]

lol with out OU it would not be over 120k ...

it would be smaller then moore

But still nowhere near the size of Ada, I am glad you agree.

[David]

But again, if OU moved, there would be a large amount of people who wouldn't live there. 1,000s of professors and other college employees would live in OKC, not Norman. And if OU had never located in Norman, then they wouldnt have 120k. Then what would they do?

Yes, they'd be bigger than, Ada, but in terms of importance, they would be the same.

Norman would still be a suburb in the OKC Metro which would make them more important that Ada by far. Just accept that it was a bad comparison.

[Rover]

...OU is a football school, not basketball. ....

Don't look now but both Sooner basketball teams are highly ranked. Women #10, Men #13. Football not ranked at all. Maybe OU is a basketball school and all the bandwagon fans just need a decent place to watch it in that is easy to access, filled with amenities, and is surrounded by real life activity and life. What a novel concept.

[bamarsha]

Don't look now but both Sooner basketball teams are highly ranked. Women #10, Men #13. Football not ranked at all. Maybe OU is a basketball school and all the bandwagon fans just need a decent place to watch it in that is easy to access, filled with amenities, and is surrounded by real life activity and life. What a novel concept.

That would be great if it became both a football and basketball school (to go with the softball and gymnastics, but they don't make money).

When I went to OU, the men where sold out all the time (Sampson had players like Ryan Minor and Nate Edrmann). However, excluding employees and family, I may have been the only other person attending the women's games (pre Coale, but still had some good players). Both teams just under 5,000 fans per game so far this season despite both being ranked (men at #13 women at #10).

[josefromtulsa]

Norman would still be a suburb in the OKC Metro which would make them more important that Ada by far. Just accept that it was a bad comparison.

Should have compared it with Guthrie...

But its moot because Norman doesnt exist without OU and OU doesnt exist without Norman.

Sure OU could have been founded in a different spot but a town is still going to pop up around to support the university. Its a symbiotic relationship which is probably more in Normans favor now with the growth of OKC and less of a reliance on OU.

[onthestrip]

I mean you could make the same argument about the Thunder but OKC passed the arena vote by 71%.

Because a new downtown OKC arena and its main tenant the Thunder matter more by a factor of 50. There is no comparison between the two arenas. One will have immensely more patrons, way bigger economic impact, and of course a better product on the court. Personally speaking, I didnt love the okc arena proposal and also wouldnt love the norman arena deal either if I lived there.

I'll make a prediction. When Norman voters kill this arena TIF, within a year you will see those arena adjacent apartments announced anyways. It already makes too much sense to have apartments at UNP and announcing them as part of the arena development was only to help boost the TIF package.

[PhiAlpha]

And the owners of the Thunder put a product on the floor people will support. Joe C and OU, not so much.

LOL, you know they’re one of a handful of undefeated teams in the country right now, right? They’ve been mediocre, no doubt but they actually appear to be a decent team this year.

[PhiAlpha]

But again, if OU moved, there would be a large amount of people who wouldn't live there. 1,000s of professors and other college employees would live in OKC, not Norman. And if OU had never located in Norman, then they wouldnt have 120k. Then what would they do?

Yes, they'd be bigger than, Ada, but in terms of importance, they would be the same.

Without OU, Norman would be more like Yukon. Maybe a small Edmond but it also benefits from hosting a university.

OU being in Norman makes the city and there’s little to no argument against that. It would just be a run of the mill suburb without it.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I can't be in the minority here, college basketball is terrible to watch. When you have the Thunder down the road why would you watch college bball?

[Jersey Boss]

LOL, you know they’re one of a handful of undefeated teams in the country right now, right? They’ve been mediocre, no doubt but they actually appear to be a decent team this year.

I have been around long enough to know that pre-conference record is not indicative of success come January. A ton of nose dives in the last decade will bear that out.

[bison34]

Without OU, Norman would be more like Yukon. Maybe a small Edmond but it also benefits from hosting a university.

OU being in Norman makes the city and there’s little to no argument against that. It would just be a run of the mill suburb without it.

That's a fair way to put it!

[Rover]

Should have compared it with Guthrie...

But its moot because Norman doesnt exist without OU and OU doesnt exist without Norman.

OU would exist. OU doesn't need Norman as much as Norman needs them. Had OU been placed in Yukon or Del City it would have still been a large state university. OSU does fine in a fairly remote small Oklahoma town. OU would have too. But, just like OSU makes Stillwater a much stronger town, OU makes Norman disproportionally stronger.

[Jersey Boss]

But its moot because Norman doesnt exist without OU and OU doesnt exist without Norman.

Truth. The point is moot.

[BoulderSooner]

But its moot because Norman doesnt exist without OU and OU doesnt exist without Norman.

OU has been around LONGER then the city of Norman ...it existed without Norman .... the city of Norman has NEVER existed without OU

[jedicurt]

so back to the fact that this won't actually cost the city anything, except concession sales tax on some 40 events... what are the other problems people have with this? oh that's right, they think if we cause it to fail, all of these developments will still just magically happen, even though they haven't for the past 2 decades

[Jersey Boss]

OU has been around LONGER then the city of Norman ...it existed without Norman .... the city of Norman has NEVER existed without OU

Lol, No, it HASN'T.
Norman incorporated 5.13.1891
First classes held at O.U., Sept.1892

[Jeremy Martin]

so back to the fact that this won't actually cost the city anything, except concession sales tax on some 40 events... what are the other problems people have with this? oh that's right, they think if we cause it to fail, all of these developments will still just magically happen, even though they haven't for the past 2 decades

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the city the guarantor on the bond payments? So if the TIF doesn't bring in enough money to pay the bonds the city has to pick it up. I think the original proposal didn't spell out who would actually own the arena but the city would be responsible for the maintenance, staff, utilities and what not?

[Rover]

Lol, No, it HASN'T.
Norman incorporated 5.13.1891
First classes held at O.U., Sept.1892

So you claim OU was created because Norman incorporated.

This whole argument has officially gotten childish.

[bison34]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the city the guarantor on the bond payments? So if the TIF doesn't bring in enough money to pay the bonds the city has to pick it up. I think the original proposal didn't spell out who would actually own the arena but the city would be responsible for the maintenance, staff, utilities and what not?

I believe OU was going to lease the venue from the city.

[Jersey Boss]

So you claim OU was created because Norman incorporated.

This whole argument has officially gotten childish.

No such claim was made. Go back and read what I responded to and then read my response. Good grief.
Get a grip man.

[TornadoKegan]

Coping by bashing Normanites because they dont want to bail out OU with a costly subsidized arena is quite hilarious to me. Maybe take the crimson shaded glasses off for a second and step back and wonder if Norman is really going to get $600 million returned in any way from a small college arena. Most rightly see that they wont, the promises are shaky, the costs are too high and why should they be responsible for OU's decades of inaction on Lloyd Noble or an on campus alternative.

Norman would make it money back quickly within a few years from the sales tax that it brings in. Then they can put money towards other projects that need done all over the city.

[BoulderSooner]

Lol, No, it HASN'T.
Norman incorporated 5.13.1891
First classes held at O.U., Sept.1892

OU was founded in 1890 ...

[BoulderSooner]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the city the guarantor on the bond payments? So if the TIF doesn't bring in enough money to pay the bonds the city has to pick it up. I think the original proposal didn't spell out who would actually own the arena but the city would be responsible for the maintenance, staff, utilities and what not?

they would not have been

[josefromtulsa]

"On December 19, 1890, the first territorial legislature, following its practice of parceling out state institutions on the basis of coalition politics, placed the University of Oklahoma (OU) in Norman. The legislature stipulated that the town donate forty acres for a campus and raise ten thousand dollars through bond sales to construct a building. The town, sensing the enormous economic benefits that would result, complied with the requirements on December 14, 1891. Before the money was raised, Gov. George Steele appointed a six-member board of regents to administer the institution."

Source:https://www.okhistory.org/publicatio...ry?entry=UN010

Note that the first students and David Ross Boyd did not arrive to Norman until 1892.