Streetcar

[CaptDave]

Thanks UP. Would love to attend but not sure how far I would have to hobble on crutches to get there.

[Urban Pioneer]

Positive progress on the streetcar front. Recommendations have made it through the Subcommittee and Oversight Board headed to council now to expand the existing Jacobs contract to begin official utility and existing underground conflict identification. I think it may make it to council on Tuesday. Areas of particular interest are the Reno/Sheridan Bridges into Bricktown and the Midtown route sections above 6th street..

Also, the idea of considering turn-key is starting to be more widely discussed. Something that the city has done only rarely. But it could potentially reduce liability and accountability to a singular major company. Consequently, that could provide more operational stability and reduce COTPA's responsibility to simply writing checks.

Either way, our people are going to make sure that this is done right. We have a very good committee.

[workman45]

Glad to hear it Urban, and thanks for all the hard work.

[MDot]

Thank you Urban. I really want to see the Mass Transit soon but I want to see it done right and I feel very confident in the committee that has been working on it. Thanks all of you men and women, you don't know how appreciated you are by the average citizen.

[CaptDave]

Thank you for the update UP. This sounds very promising. I am looking forward to being one of the first riders on this system.

Allow me to add my thanks to you and all the committee members who have done an outstanding job on this project.

[CaptDave]

16 December 2005

Dallas:
DART light rail pulls another major firm into city's downtown

More evidence of the magnetic appeal of rail transit in attracting development to help revitalize the cores of cities – this time, in Dallas, where the presence of the Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) light rail transit (LRT) line is apparently a significant factor in persuading major companies to locate their headquarters downtown.

The Dallas Morning News (1 December 2005) reports that the major Dallas architectural firm Corgan Associates Inc. is planning to build a new corporate office in downtown Dallas's West End district – once a run-down warehouse area, but now a vibrant center.of upscale restaurants, shops, and offices served by DART's West End LRT station.

The News reports that "Corgan is the third company this year – along with Hunt Consolidated Inc. and 7-Eleven Inc. – to announce plans to build its headquarters downtown."

According to the article, Corgan selected the West End site because it was a "Convenient location" with easy access to DART's light rail system "and other amenities in the entertainment district."

[OKCisOK4me]

Old news is great news I guess...

[CaptDave]

That's true OKCisOK4me. I have been looking for quantifiable data about TOD from fairly new systems. 2005 is a little old I suppose but I posted it mainly because most OKC residents are probably familiar with the DART system.

[Urban Pioneer]

This should probably have been in the "Commuter Transit Project Regresses" thread which hasn't yet been created. lol

Spur of the moment

Plans for commuter rail could be complicated by a transfer in ownership.

By Clifton Adcock November 2nd, 2011

Ownership of an Oklahoma City railroad spur critical to future commuter rail plans in the region is scheduled to be transferred from the state Department of Transportation to the Union Pacific Corp. at the end of November.

The rail line, extending east of Santa Fe Station, which is slated to be the city’s future intermodal transportation hub, to the east bank of the Oklahoma River, is under a 30-year lease-to-own agreement between the rail company and the state’s transportation department.

The state originally acquired the line from the now-defunct Rock Island and Pacific Railroad company, and now the final payment by Union Pacific to take over ownership of the line is scheduled to be made at the end of November.

Read more here:

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/ar...he-moment.html

[MDot]

I'm actually surprised Union Pacific didn't try and get it a long time ago since the track leads right out of their yard. (If I'm thinking of the correct one)

Also, if I read that right, doesn't it say Union Pacific does NOT have any plans for this section of track?

[SkyWestOKC]

So the state is giving UP control of that line, that the state bought?

[Urban Pioneer]

If you read carefully, their decision to give it up was made 30 years ago via a lease-purchase agreement when only the truly crazy were advocating for commuter rail. It is going to make it more difficult or at least expensive to get out to the NE side and/or Tinker.

Makes you wonder what ODOT uses the money on that they receive when they give up state rail assets.

[CaptDave]

If only this was a surprise......really??? Is this another example of complete lack of foresight by ODOT? I would say they use that money for road or bridge repairs but we know that isn't the case.

[Just the facts]

Eminent domain?

[MDot]

Eminent domain?

Yes, Eminem is dominant.

[Urban Pioneer]

Railroad right typically got back to Lincoln and it is doubtful that any modern local rights would apply.

[Watson410]

Yes, Eminem is dominant.

+1

[Urban Pioneer]

Great comments and pictorial slides by Shadid with a response from Couch today at Council.

[CaptDave]

I had wondered about most of what Mr Shadid mentioned today - especially the rail right of way that is being sold to Union Pacific. IIRC, UP has been historically hostile or non-cooperative with transit and commuter rail projects along ROW's they own. If you look at the map of rail ines in downtown, it is going to be very difficult to get East-West lines to the Santa Fe station transit hub. I had thought a loop might work, but that depended upon access to those ROW's UP will own very soon. This doesn't bode well for HSR either. Then add in the lack of foresight in NOT building a rail bridge over I-44 and I-235 near 50th St sufficiently wide to accomodate both BNSF and future commuter rail just doesn't lead me to believe anyone is seriously studying what will be required for even a simple commuter rail systm in the OKC Metro.

Good Lord help me, but all this "new" information is making Tom Elmore's consternation about losing Union Station as a possible transit hub look pretty good.

[Urban Pioneer]

It's not really all that new. It's just that educated people in leadership positions are just now realizing what "lost" opportunities have occurred over the years as each of these past decisions come into potential conflict with plans. Commuter rail is a complicated ambition. It will take people who care enough to ask the tough decisions. With all the planning bringing clarity as to how complicated it is, we have to ask ourselves "Are we serious about this?"

If we are, we will make decisions now that will save us money in the future. Regarding dealing with the railroads, other cities have and do. It is not impossible or improbable. But it does take commitment.

And regarding Union Station, I believe that we would still have the same complications with the same locations irregardless whether the hub was placed there as envisioned by Elmore. The same corridors and conflicts would exist.

[CaptDave]

Commitment - that is what I wonder about more than anything. I know there is a significant segment of the population that is committed to seeing a modern transit system as part of the OKC Metro's future. But are our various municipalities' leadership equally committed? If so, when is the earliest election a Metro Transit tax proposal could be put to a vote?

A Metro transit authority will be necessary (such as DART) to ever see a commuter rail or light rail system built. OKC is taking the first step with the downtown streetcar; and the city council and mayor rightly state the other cities should contribute to any regional system. I honestly think a "transit tax" would likely pass in Edmond, Norman, OKC, MWC, and probably Moore. Yukon, Del City, Mustang, and Shawnee I am not so sure about but hope they would want to be included. So all this leads me to ask if there are any plans to establish a regional transit authority (COPTA doesn't seem to fill this role honestly) in the near future that will be empowered to begin the planning process for real improvements in transit?

(I was mostly joking about Union Station - there certainly were issues with that location as well. I think the Santa Fe site could be great if appropriate resources are dedicated to its design and construction.)

[OKCisOK4me]

CaptDave,

With regards to the BNSF bridge over I-235 near 50th St., it will have to be replaced when they widen out that last portion of the Broadway Extension project. The same will probably have to be done with the brown bridge over I-44 or they can build a commuter rail bridge alongside the current bridge. By the time that bridge near 50th is replaced, we may be much closer to a solid commuter answer.

[Just the facts]

UP - did you mention in another thread that the Hub was planning for 3 platforms? Does that mean a 6 track capacity?

[CaptDave]

CaptDave,

With regards to the BNSF bridge over I-235 near 50th St., it will have to be replaced when they widen out that last portion of the Broadway Extension project. The same will probably have to be done with the brown bridge over I-44 or they can build a commuter rail bridge alongside the current bridge. By the time that bridge near 50th is replaced, we may be much closer to a solid commuter answer.

My question is this - are they planning to replace it with a bridge wide enough to accomodate both BNSF and future commuter rail? It would seem prudent to me to do so since this is the most likely first phase of a commuter rail system in OKC. I am not 100% sure how the cost would be shared but I assume BNSF, ODOT, and local government would contribute.

[Snowman]

My question is this - are they planning to replace it with a bridge wide enough to accomodate both BNSF and future commuter rail? It would seem prudent to me to do so since this is the most likely first phase of a cummuter rail system in OKC. I am not 100%sure how the cost would be shared but I assume BNSF, ODOT, and local government would contribute.

Unless they are going to double mainline I doubt BNSF will pay much, their is limited use for BNSF of a parallel commuter line, and may even be detrimental to possibly expanding to double mainline track later. If the extension to the heartland flyer goes through to Kansas it sounded like they would were factoring in to upgrades to double track in at least parts of OKC for projected costs.