Population Growth for OKC

[shartel_ave]

My point was a very nice home in OKC is still reasonable by any comparative measure and there are plenty of much cheaper houses in the area.

My house is the same age and is awesome after I put some sweat equity into it. The idea that a 50 year-old home is somehow not acceptable proves my previous points about unrealistic expectations.

I didn't say it was unacceptable my point was the price of that home. Having to spend a quarter of a million dollars on a "fixer upper" is ridiculous!

12 years ago my brother had two story, 3 bed, 2.5 bath, 2 car garage house built brand new just outside of Tucson for $220k

it unrealistic to think most people can afford that much money on a home when edit; 60% of americans live paycheck to paycheck

just one of tons of sites with the same information https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfri...h=20a1e96a55f6

I'm lucky, I own my home and have zero debt and do not have a single credit card and I'm hardcore frugal and have no kids.

My point is most people cannot afford that.

[Pete]

Having to spend a quarter of a million dollars on a "fixer upper" is ridiculous!

Again, completely unrealistic expectations brought on by living in one of the most under-priced housing markets in the country.

Almost anybody can start today with Amazon or Hobby Lobby or scores of other employers begging for workers and get paid $17/hour plus benefits. With two incomes, that's $68K a year and you absolutely can buy a home in the OKC area with that type of income. Then, you build up equity and improve your house or upgrade down the line.

[Thatguy15]

I didn't say it was unacceptable my point was the price of that home. Having to spend a quarter of a million dollars on a "fixer upper" is ridiculous!

12 years ago my brother had two story, 3 bed, 2.5 bath, 2 car garage house built brand new just outside of Tucson for $220k

it unrealistic to think most people can afford that much money on a home when edit; 60% of americans live paycheck to paycheck

just one of tons of sites with the same information https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfri...h=20a1e96a55f6

I'm lucky, I own my home and have zero debt and do not have a single credit card and I'm hardcore frugal and have no kids.

My point is most people cannot afford that.

Simple economics says you are wrong....the market is the market because people CAN afford that.

[Jersey Boss]

Simple economics says you are wrong....the market is the market because people CAN afford that.

If you are of the belief that investment corporations are "people".

[mugofbeer]

If you are of the belief that investment corporations are "people".

This is once I have to agree with Jersey. Anytime you have a period where real estate is inflating in price the way it has been, corporations and foreign investment is part of the reason. I believe that the trend of remote officing and a need for additional room (moving from apartment or condo to a house) is another reason. Covid brought a major unforseen change to residential demographics.

[Pete]

BTW, there is a massive benefit of local housing prices that are finally drifting towards national averages: the huge amount of infill.

Up until recently, low rents and home selling prices meant it didn't make financial sense to redevelop underutilized properties. You would have never seen the massive amount of infill in the core if we hadn't had some decent appreciation.

It's not just downtown, although it contains hundreds of examples. And not only around hot districts like Midtown, Uptown and the Plaza.

The infill is absolutely everywhere these days. I've even seen long-vacant lots near me at NW 50th & Penn finally be developed. And right around the corner, an old, very small house was torn down with 2 2-level new homes built on the site.

The same is happening all around Classen Curve, Western District, near OCU, NE OKC and on and on.

Not only does such new development and redevelopment greatly benefit our city, it's cleaned up a bunch of areas that were pretty shabby and increased density (and entire books have bene written about the civic benefits of density alone). The trend is only accelerating.

At the same time, there is new affordable housing units being built at Page Woodson, 700 West and other places.

[oklip955]

Again, completely unrealistic expectations brought on by living in one of the most under-priced housing markets in the country.

Almost anybody can start today with Amazon or Hobby Lobby or scores of other employers begging for workers and get paid $17/hour plus benefits. With two incomes, that's $68K a year and you absolutely can buy a home in the OKC area with that type of income. Then, you build up equity and improve your house or upgrade down the line.

The problem is that many people have unrealistic expectations. That house that was posted is not bad. Ok a bit dated but still not bad. Lots of space for the money and centrally located in a decent area. So many people have watched way too many housing shows and expect the 3 or 4 bed 2 or 3 bath 3000 sq ft homes that are fully updated with top of the line appliances. My first house was 700 sq ft 2 bed and 1 bath with a one wall kitchen, It was the early 80's but the house was 50s. no garage, next to busy railroad tracks. The plus was 2 ac. I lived in it for 2 years then divided it up into 6 lots and sold to an investor
/agent/developer who build small rent houses. The point being one needs to start small and work their way up to their dream home.

[gopokes88]

If you are over 30 and have not bought a home in the OKC area with our crazy low prices and microscopic interest rates, that's all on you.

If you're under 30, a well-located home that doesn't need work is not your birthright. You buy a small house and/or one needing work and build up equity over time.

This is exactly what I did, what my parents did and just about everyone else I know. Now, you get all these young people watching HGTV and Instagram feeds and feel entitled to a completely finished dream home as a first-time buyer.


There is a great, 4-bed 2-bath house right around the corner from me on a very nice street in a great location with a big fenced-in backyard.

It could use some updating but you could move in today and live quite well, and then slowly make the changes you'd like and probably never outgrow it.

It's $245K and has been on the market for a couple of weeks without an offer. If I didn't already love my house, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, clean up the front landscaping, do some painting, replace the Formica countertops and then over time start work on the bathrooms and other things. You could open up the living/dining/kitchen (as I did with my house) and have a great modern floorplan in a close-in established neighborhood.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...2_M84640-23250

Go off king.

[ChrisHayes]

Out-of-state corporations are flooding Oklahoma housing market

I looked it up, and less than 20% of homes sold in Oklahoma are sold to investors. Further more, that doesn't differentiate between the small investor or big corporate ones. This is a far cry from cities such as Phoenix or Atlanta where investors buy up far more than in Oklahoma. Also, with the housing market slowing down, and interest rates going up, don't be surprised if the investors buying up houses declines quite a bit. There are some who actually say many investors will actually be forced to liquidate their holdings. We'll see. I don't see how you could outlaw or try to prevent investors from buying houses. I'm not a fan of big investment companies doing it, but I'm even less a fan of enacting laws that would prevent it.

[Ryan]

I looked it up, and less than 20% of homes sold in Oklahoma are sold to investors. Further more, that doesn't differentiate between the small investor or big corporate ones. This is a far cry from cities such as Phoenix or Atlanta where investors buy up far more than in Oklahoma. Also, with the housing market slowing down, and interest rates going up, don't be surprised if the investors buying up houses declines quite a bit. There are some who actually say many investors will actually be forced to liquidate their holdings. We'll see. I don't see how you could outlaw or try to prevent investors from buying houses. I'm not a fan of big investment companies doing it, but I'm even less a fan of enacting laws that would prevent it.

1 in 5is still a lot. Feels bubbly to me. That’s more Thant the ratio of balloon mortgages 15 years ago isn’t it. But I like a healthy housing market. I wonder what the sweet spot is concerning investors stake in the housing market vs homeowners?

[ChrisHayes]

1 in 5is still a lot. Feels bubbly to me. That’s more Thant the ratio of balloon mortgages 15 years ago isn’t it. But I like a healthy housing market. I wonder what the sweet spot is concerning investors stake in the housing market vs homeowners?

That's a good question. And it seems very much like a bubble. I saw one story where an investment company is looking to liquidate 3,000 single family rental properties they own, which comes out to a billion dollars in properties. I doubt that's the last one.

[Thatguy15]

If you are of the belief that investment corporations are "people".

Not happening much in Oklahoma, get off twitter

[shartel_ave]

Not happening much in Oklahoma, get off twitter

What's up with you and meaningless statements?

Are you that get off my lawn guy or something?

[soonerguru]

Our first home was $100k in 2005 and it was a stretch to get it (based on our credit and income situation at the time). We are so glad we bought it then, lived there for more than a decade, and then upgraded to a home we bought (absurdly) for $200k in 2017. It's obviously worth considerably more than that now.

Our income and credit situation is a total 180 from 2005 now, and has been for some time.

Pete is right; there are still many reasonable options available in OKC. The blessing and curse of our city is the spread out, sprawling nature of our collective footprint. This lack of density and sound urban planning has created a lot of holes to fill in, moderating the increase in the cost of real estate.

I do worry that home ownership overall is going to be too costly for most Americans. For those of us who got in, good for us, but you want to leave a ladder for future generations. Until recently, incomes had not really grown for like 40 years. Now, they are growing but unfortunately accompanied by high inflation.

In many cities, home ownership is out of reach for most of the population now. Yes, welcome to reality OKC, but one would hope our city doesn't get to that point.

If you don't own a home, I agree it is a good investment, but people really need to think about the cost of upkeep when making the decision. We have a really well built, well cared-for home that was built in the 1960s. There are a lot of constant maintenance costs people don't think about that crop up. That's why it's not always the right financial move to buy. Sometimes renting seems more expensive on the surface when you don't consider the hidden costs of home ownership.

So, if you do buy, don't stretch your budget to the limit, because you will need to set aside money to keep your home up.

[soonerguru]

I looked it up, and less than 20% of homes sold in Oklahoma are sold to investors. Further more, that doesn't differentiate between the small investor or big corporate ones. This is a far cry from cities such as Phoenix or Atlanta where investors buy up far more than in Oklahoma. Also, with the housing market slowing down, and interest rates going up, don't be surprised if the investors buying up houses declines quite a bit. There are some who actually say many investors will actually be forced to liquidate their holdings. We'll see. I don't see how you could outlaw or try to prevent investors from buying houses. I'm not a fan of big investment companies doing it, but I'm even less a fan of enacting laws that would prevent it.

That is still a considerable amount.

[TheTravellers]

...
If you don't own a home, I agree it is a good investment, but people really need to think about the cost of upkeep when making the decision. We have a really well built, well cared-for home that was built in the 1960s. There are a lot of constant maintenance costs people don't think about that crop up. That's why it's not always the right financial move to buy. Sometimes renting seems more expensive on the surface when you don't consider the hidden costs of home ownership.

So, if you do buy, don't stretch your budget to the limit, because you will need to set aside money to keep your home up.

Yep, this 100%. Bought our 1950 (remodeled with new infrastructure 20 years ago) house 6 years ago, have had to remove *tons* of plants, trees, etc., and fill in with a couple of tons of dirt, and that's just the lawn. All kinds of HVAC stuff, fixtures, electrical, just lots of stuff we've done and we're *almost* at a point where things are stable (had our HVAC/plumbing guy come in and fix everything he saw that was wrong or would fail in the next few years and it took a month and was expensive, but worth it for the peace of mind). We've probably spent ~ $20,000 on getting things back to where they should be.

[Jersey Boss]

That is still a considerable amount.

Nor is % of "Oklahoma" sales to investors the same as Oklaoma City sales to investors.

[shartel_ave]

Glad a bought a duplex and paid it off so now it generates an income

https://www.moneyunder30.com/why-you...-an-investment

https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/...blown%20bubble.

[ChrisHayes]

Nor is % of "Oklahoma" sales to investors the same as Oklaoma City sales to investors.

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/...ate-investors/ According to Realtor, it's 11%. But like I said, that number doesn't differentiate between mom/pop/small investor and big institutional. If you buy a house to turn it into a rental, you're marked as being an investor.

[shartel_ave]

https://www.realtor.com/news/trends/...ate-investors/ According to Realtor, it's 11%. But like I said, that number doesn't differentiate between mom/pop/small investor and big institutional. If you buy a house to turn it into a rental, you're marked as being an investor.

So, are people saying corporations are buying up housing property?

If so what is the reason for it?

[ChrisHayes]

So, are people saying corporations are buying up housing property?

If so what is the reason for it?

They turn them into rental properties.

[shartel_ave]

They turn them into rental properties.

Ohhh, that makes sense

[soonerguru]

Nor is % of "Oklahoma" sales to investors the same as Oklaoma City sales to investors.

Excellent point.

[soonerguru]

Yep, this 100%. Bought our 1950 (remodeled with new infrastructure 20 years ago) house 6 years ago, have had to remove *tons* of plants, trees, etc., and fill in with a couple of tons of dirt, and that's just the lawn. All kinds of HVAC stuff, fixtures, electrical, just lots of stuff we've done and we're *almost* at a point where things are stable (had our HVAC/plumbing guy come in and fix everything he saw that was wrong or would fail in the next few years and it took a month and was expensive, but worth it for the peace of mind). We've probably spent ~ $20,000 on getting things back to where they should be.

And people I know who bought brand new homes in far Northwest OKC a few years ago are already having to put money back in. Stuff breaks. Some of the 1950s and 1960s homes were built more solidly than many brand new homes are, although we have different standards for plumbing, electrical and such today that mitigate some of the issues you had to deal with.

The central point is to not be so house poor that you can't make a major repair, get a new HVAC, or repaint the siding on a fairly regular basis, because you are going to have to pay to keep up your home regardless.

[ChrisHayes]

I got preapproved for 165k in 2018. I had a car loan at the time, so I could have gotten preapproved for more than that if I didn't have the car loan. I wanted a 3/2 with a two car garage, but in an at least somewhat safe area and to have as little of a payment as I could. I ended up buying a 3/1 with a two car garage near OCCC for 91,500. I put 10% down and my monthly payment is less than 700 a month. I've put a lot of sweat equity into the house during the past four years and the house is now valued at anywhere from 120-150,000 dollars. I would like to sell it and upgrade, but I love having such a cheap house payment.