Self defense - Racist style

[venture]

This is one of those cases where it really sways me. It'll all come down to exactly what happened. First and foremost, if someone is going to cause harm to me - I'm taking them out. However, once they are subdued i'm kicking the weapon away and keeping a gun aimed at him until police arrive. If he is fatally wounded on the first shot, nothing to worry about. If he is trying to get up and cause harm again, by all means defend yourself.

This sounds like the store owner let the primal instincts take control and lost control. If the robber wasn't moving or severely wounded, you don't casually (from what the video looked like) walk over and pump him with 5 more rounds. If it comes down to where this is the case, sorry...he crossed a line and goes away.

[drumsncode]

He should really STFU. This interview differs greatly from the one he gave immediately after the event. He's running dangerously close to shooting his credibility straight to hell.

I'm guessing Irven Box is pulling some brilliant tactics and making chess moves to get what he wants down the road. I just have that feeling. He was right there during the interview, so that interview was "very" deliberate, and he has his client saying what he wants to be said in an arena of his choosing.

I bet he'll have no trouble getting a change of venue either, and he can wave goodbye to the obnoxious judge that both attorney's don't seem to like.

This is going to be the best trial of the decade if I don't miss my guess.

The one charge I'm not sure I agree with is murder-one on the 14 year-old kid. In his situation, it seems more like he's a "hostage of a pimp" so to speak, and being made to perform acts due to extreme pressure and coercion.

And can we charge the mother's of the kids involved for just being stupid and worthless? (Hey, I was just hoping.)

[Midtowner]

This interview plays right into the prosecutor's hands. No chess games here other than that Box is previewing his case to the public. He's probably trying to build pressure on the D.A. to offer a respectable plea bargain. I'll be shocked if this thing ever goes to trial.

If it does go to trial, the prosecutor is going to have the defendant nailed down giving two different accounts (at least) of the events -- one before he obtained legal counsel, which turned out not to match up with the forensics, and a different story after being given the opportunity to build a plausible story based upon the real facts at the scene ( a story which is still markedly different from the story originally told).
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[BailJumper]

First, I can't believe he hired Irven Box. Box in my opinion is a hack and prefers to plea his client even if it sells him/her out in the process. A much better pick would have been Garvin Isaacs. I'm familiar with his record and his preference to avoid the media spotlight. Excellent trial lawyer.

The problem is that Prater will be in the middle of his re-election battle when this thing goes to trial. Its no secret downtown that Box panders to whomever is DA of the moment. I can see him advising his client to take whatever plea deal Prater feels takes this monkey off his back and thus makes Prater indebted to Box in the process.

I agree, it is unlikely this thing will go to trial. The defendant does not have the funds or the stamina to face the trial for his life.

[kevinpate]

It is the rare defendant who can be protected by flapping his own lips, prior to conviction anyway.

[Thunder]

Maybe OKCTalk should sponsor a donation drive to fund his' defense?

[nighttrain12]

Maybe OKCTalk should sponsor a donation drive to fund his' defense?

Or we could all donate our guns to his lawyer .... plus a few comic books.

[dismayed]

This interview plays right into the prosecutor's hands. No chess games here other than that Box is previewing his case to the public. He's probably trying to build pressure on the D.A. to offer a respectable plea bargain. I'll be shocked if this thing ever goes to trial.

If it does go to trial, the prosecutor is going to have the defendant nailed down giving two different accounts (at least) of the events -- one before he obtained legal counsel, which turned out not to match up with the forensics, and a different story after being given the opportunity to build a plausible story based upon the real facts at the scene ( a story which is still markedly different from the story originally told).
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I totally agree. When I saw the O'Rielly Factor interview the other night I just had to cringe. It looked to me like the pharmacist had been rehearsed to the point of not even telling the same story anymore. I agree with you, they are torching their own ground as they go. I think Box must just be trying to create a huge amount of public/media pressure on the DA to plea the thing down and never go to trial.

[fuzzytoad]

Or we could all donate our guns to his lawyer .... plus a few comic books.

the new 21st century currency.. guns and, umm.. comic books

that being said, I *will* keep an eye on Box to see if he sells any of Ersland's weapons, and how much he tries to sell them for..

Will the judge(i really want one of those) and the kel-tec he used in this incident go back to him or to the lawyer after the trial?(if he's exonerated)

[drumsncode]

They caught the last suspect they were looking for. His comment to a question aired on NEWS 9 was, "I ain't did nuthin'", which I believe is a very stylish dialect of Ebonics.

He's obviously a very well-educated man, yet another proud product of our welfare system.

Let's translate into the King's English for those of you who actually went to school and paid attention.

First, we translate to "I am not did nothing", then correct for grammar and structure and we can derive a couple of variations: "I did not do anything", or the somewhat more terse "I did nothing".

Snoop Dogg would be proud. Class dismissed.

This trial is going to be so good I'd almost pay to see it.

[Midtowner]

Nah... they'll more than likely get a confession out of him. The dumb ones always confess.

They usually fall hook, line and sinker for the "If you cooperate right now, things will be easier for you" line.

[Thunder]

The way I look at it... "I ain't did nuthin" says he didn't do nothing... Get it? Did not do nothing, so in a way, he DID DO something, since he DID NOT do nothing.

There ya go, guilty as a squirrel looking at an oncoming tire.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

The way I look at it... "I ain't did nuthin" says he didn't do nothing... Get it? Did not do nothing, so in a way, he DID DO something, since he DID NOT do nothing.

There ya go, guilty as a squirrel looking at an oncoming tire.

Double negative much?

[nighttrain12]

Makes you wonder how he talked those 2 teenagers (I refuse to use the word kids or children to describe them) into robbing a pharmacy.

[fuzzytoad]

(I refuse to use the word kids or children to describe them)

soldiers?

[Thunder]

soldiers?

More like mindless robots.

[kevinpate]

They just used the Tom T Hall approach on what life is all about -
faster horses
younger women
older whiskey
and more money

[drumsncode]

The way I look at it... "I ain't did nuthin" says he didn't do nothing... Get it? Did not do nothing, so in a way, he DID DO something, since he DID NOT do nothing.

There ya go, guilty as a squirrel looking at an oncoming tire.

Ah yes, a brilliant observation! You got him on a technicality. I hereby appoint you the chief prosecutor and also make you my honorary Ebonics translator.

Good work. :-)

And I believe that David Prater is going to charge the "oncoming tire" with murder-one, then also charge the driver of the car. His reasoning is that after the squirrel was hit by the front tire and incapacitated, that the rear tire was unreasonable force.

The judge wants the driver to turn over all tires to the court.

[PennyQuilts]

They wanted stuff and the older guys promised them a share of the loot. Nothing complicated about it. Greed, baby.

And if I were to go out on a limb and compare them with many of the kids I work with - their parents are content to live in poverty but the kids they bring into this world want the same things their buddies at school, have - ipods, video games, blah, blah, blah. Mom can't afford it, dad isn't around. They don't get the connection between labor and income, no one is watching them, they wander the neighborhood with other thugs, the only adult males they see are criminals who tell them - hey, you want a video game? Either steal it from your friends, the store, or rob someone so you can walk right in and pay for it. Nothing complicated about it.

[bornhere]

First, I can't believe he hired Irven Box. Box in my opinion is a hack and prefers to plea his client even if it sells him/her out in the process. A much better pick would have been Garvin Isaacs. I'm familiar with his record and his preference to avoid the media spotlight. Excellent trial lawyer.

Box argued and won a landmark appeal before the US Supreme Court, which is not what I would call the work of a 'hack.'

[Midtowner]

Box argued and won a landmark appeal before the US Supreme Court, which is not what I would call the work of a 'hack.'

I checked Oyez.org, can't find a record of him ever appearing before the United States Supreme Court. I'm not calling you a liar, but do you have a source for that assertion?

[bornhere]

I had it wrong. The appeal I was thinking of was Glen Burton Ake vs. Oklahoma, which established the right of an indigent defendant to receive state-funded psychiatric examination if requested.

Box was Ake's counsel on appeal, but the case was argued before SCOTUS by someone else.

[kevinpate]

In the interest of clarity

On the first appeal of right before the Oklahoma appellate court, prior to the S.Ct.'s landmark ruling in the Ake decision, the appellate counsel for Ake were Richard Strubhar and Reta Strubhar out of Yukon.

The state appellate court rejected Ake's claims, but the US Supreme Court then broke some significant new ground for indigent defendant ssistance in its Ake decision. The name of counsel before the S Sct. escapes me, but as already noted, it was not Box.

Box was involved with Ake's retrial and the first appeal of the new convictions and sentences, but not with the original go around.

[BailJumper]

Box argued and won a landmark appeal before the US Supreme Court, which is not what I would call the work of a 'hack.'

What's your point? Gassaway won some unbelievable cases in his time and yet he's a hack. Coyle used to be one of the best and yet he has his demons. I didn't say Box doesn't know the law. However, I feel he learned long ago he can make more money with volume and pleas.

[drumsncode]

Maybe I missed it, but I have never heard why Jerome came back and switched guns. That one remains a puzzle to me.