Why I am voting No.

[bornhere]

NBA tickets were given a sales tax exemption by the state legislature in 2006, but I don't know if it's still in place now. If it's not, I assume it would be re-enacted for the Sonics or whatever NBA franchise locates here.

[Kerry]

Good point bornhere.

[windowphobe]

If the sales tax is defeated the sales tax rate for OKC will go down by about 27%.

Um, no. The city's cut of the overall sales tax might go down by that much, but the state levy isn't changing at all, so the actual difference would be 0.01/0.08375 = a shade under 12 percent.

Whether Meadows is being obtuse or deceptive is left as an exercise for the student.

[glennp]

This is an interesting article done by economist of the University of Texas at Arlington. This is part of the reason I am voting no. Other reasons stem from the Journal of Urban Affairs, Journal of Records, and the book "Pay Dirt". Each of these have studies pretaining to Does professional sports increase jobs.

Study: Pro games depress tax revenue
NFL, NBA cited, but hockey, baseball said to boost economic activity slightly



09:55 PM CDT on Saturday, June 24, 2006
By JEFF MOSIER / The Dallas Morning News


ARLINGTON – Football may be king in these parts, but that doesn't mean much at the cash registers.

A new statewide study co-written by a University of Texas at Arlington economist found that sales tax revenue drops by more than $560,000 every time a city hosts a regular-season NFL game.

NBA games lower sales tax revenue by $16,000 per game, the study found, while NHL and Major League Baseball games tend to boost average sales tax revenue by small amounts.

DallasNews.com/extra

Read the complete study
"When it comes to NFL games, that number seems awfully large and negative, but I'm convinced it's there," said UTA's Craig Depken.

Large traffic jams that accompany Dallas Cowboys and Houston Texans games also lead to what Dr. Depken calls the "hunker-down" and "skedaddle" factors. Fans might spend money in Irving during a Cowboys game, but more residents are likely to avoid gridlock by staying home or driving to a neighboring city to shop or dine.

The research released last week also found that NBA Finals games, like the ones held recently in Dallas, provide only a modest boost in economic activity. A Game 7 for the Dallas Mavericks would have been expected to increase sales tax revenue in Dallas by more than $65,000, based on the statewide average, the study said. But that bonus would not have made up for the average $128,000-per-game loss in the previous playoff rounds.

The study found that college football games aren't big moneymakers for larger cities but that they can boost the economy of small towns like Prairie View or Kingsville.

The study crunched sales tax data from 126 Texas cities from January 1990 to April and analyzed the effects of professional and college sporting events.

Critics of the study say it is too focused on sales tax revenue and doesn't take into account many benefits of professional sporting events.

Linda DiMario, president and CEO of the Arlington Convention & Visitors Bureau, said she's seen plenty of studies like Dr. Depken's in the past. Most have a narrow focus, she said.

The teams promote civic pride, attract millions of dollars in free publicity and help support adjacent businesses, Ms. DiMario said. Local sports teams generate hundreds – in some cases thousands – of jobs, she said. Arlington is home to the Texas Rangers and is building a stadium for the Cowboys.

"There is more at stake when a city hosts an event than the sales tax that accrues to the city coffers," Ms. DiMario said.

Previous research has shown that the average three-game Rangers homestand pumps about $2 million into Arlington's economy, she said. That's about half of what Dr. Depken's study estimated.

Arlington Mayor Robert Cluck said he doesn't believe the research – especially the data on the negative sales tax effects of football games.

"To me, it's implausible," he said.

Dr. Cluck said he trusts a city-commissioned study estimating that the new Cowboys stadium, which will open in 2009, will generate $1 million to $1.5 million in new sales tax revenue annually.

Maura Gast, executive director of the Irving Convention and Visitors Bureau, said that nothing in the study surprises her. Cowboys games attract few out-of-towners staying in Irving hotels, and traffic around Texas Stadium probably depresses the city's economy on game day.

"As a local, when you think about where you are going on the weekends and have errands to run, do I want to do it in a 50,000-person traffic sprawl?" she said.

Football has increased Irving's name recognition, Ms. Gast said, but all people know is that the Cowboys play there and it's near Dallas. That doesn't necessarily translate into a big boost in tourism.

Daniel Oney, economic development research manager for Dallas, said the study appears to be reasonable. He said that he would have projected a higher sales tax impact by the Mavericks but that the figures are still in the ballpark.

"The net impact is never as big as it's being claimed by the boosters," he said.

Dr. Depken warned that his research wasn't meant to predict the future, only to analyze the past. The study isn't a forecast for what will happen when the Cowboys leave Irving for Arlington in a few years.

The planned Glorypark shopping center, which will be wedged between the Cowboys and Rangers stadiums, could brighten the economic outlook on Cowboys game days if fans stick around after the game to eat, drink, shop or watch a movie, Dr. Depken said.

The study contains few explanations about why, among other things, NHL games boost sales tax and NBA games depress it. Dr. Depken said that he and his research partner are conducting further research to try to determine contributing factors.

Another study expected by the end of the summer will look at the "spillover" effect on cities neighboring a stadium's home city. That data has been collected but hasn't been analyzed.

One issue Dr. Depken won't tackle is whether a city should spend its tax dollars to build a stadium or how a stadium should be funded.

"Those are questions I'm not really qualified to answer," he said.

The study, which also was researched by Dennis Coates of the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, will be presented this week at the Western Economic Association International conference in San Diego.

E-mail jmosier@dallasnews.com


GAMES' ECONOMIC FOOTPRINT



Game Estimated sales tax impact per game *
NCAA football $22,346
NCAA bowl ($1,486,158)
NFL ($566,866)
NFL playoffs ($155,675)
Super Bowl $2,500,837
NBA ($21,208)
NBA playoffs ($128,709)
NBA All-Star $1,616,465
NBA Finals $65,578
MLB $22,216
MLB playoffs $461,383
MLB All-Star ($285,310)
MLB World Series $1,159,910
NHL $21,424
NHL playoffs $138,561
NHL Finals $341,267
Political convention ($1,491,518)

*Numbers in parentheses are negative

SOURCES: Craig Depken, Dennis Coates

[Easy180]

Good thing OKC doesn't have any traffic issues on NBA game days so that part of the study can be thrown out

Irving/Dallas...Absolutely...It's nasty on a regular day

OKC...Nope

**Linda DiMario, president and CEO of the Arlington Convention & Visitors Bureau, said she's seen plenty of studies like Dr. Depken's in the past. Most have a narrow focus, she said.

The teams promote civic pride, attract millions of dollars in free publicity and help support adjacent businesses, Ms. DiMario said. Local sports teams generate hundreds – in some cases thousands – of jobs, she said. Arlington is home to the Texas Rangers and is building a stadium for the Cowboys.**

Agreed

[Karried]

Fans might spend money in Irving during a Cowboys game, but more residents are likely to avoid gridlock by staying home or driving to a neighboring city to shop or dine.

That was never my experience during Hornet's games.

We don't have a huge and thriving area (yet) downtown or bricktown, we need all the help we can get bringing people in.

Critics of the study say it is too focused on sales tax revenue and doesn't take into account many benefits of professional sporting events.

Linda DiMario, president and CEO of the Arlington Convention & Visitors Bureau, said she's seen plenty of studies like Dr. Depken's in the past. Most have a narrow focus, she said.

The teams promote civic pride, attract millions of dollars in free publicity and help support adjacent businesses, Ms. DiMario said. Local sports teams generate hundreds – in some cases thousands – of jobs, she said. Arlington is home to the Texas Rangers and is building a stadium for the Cowboys.

"There is more at stake when a city hosts an event than the sales tax that accrues to the city coffers," Ms. DiMario said.

It's not always about the money.

[Kerry]

I guess it all depends on the size of the city the arena/stadium is in. When the Jags play in Jacskonville it has 0% impact on my shopping. I live 8 miles from the stadium and there is not any traffic at my house. Maybe in a small geographic city like Irving there might be a drop in shopping during the game but I seriously doubt someone in Dallas is saying "oh crap, we can't go the Galleria mall because there is a game in Irving."

[Theo Walcott]

Sorry folks. Anybody voting no on this initiative just isn't very intelligent. It's a ONE CENT SALES TAX!!!!! Hello!? It would guarantee this city getting an NBA franchise. If that isn't worth a penny on the dollar to you, then God help you.

If you vote no on this, you are against progress for Oklahoma City in all ways, shapes and forms. Your intelligence MUST be called into question as well. I have faith in this city and I am sure that the votes of those desiring change and progress for the city will outweigh those of the retarded baboons.

EDIT: I should also add that one of the above posters cites some dumbass professor from UTEX-Arlington (a bastion of prestige, no doubt) in order to reinforce a viewpoint he/she clearly already had. Pathetic. AN NBA TEAM IS A NET GAIN FOR THIS CITY WITHOUT QUESTION. It really isn't that hard to spell out. Please wake up, those of you voting no.

[solitude]

Sorry folks. Anybody voting no on this initiative just isn't very intelligent. It's a ONE CENT SALES TAX!!!!! Hello!? It would guarantee this city getting an NBA franchise. If that isn't worth a penny on the dollar to you, then God help you.

If you vote no on this, you are against progress for Oklahoma City in all ways, shapes and forms. Your intelligence MUST be called into question as well. I have faith in this city and I am sure that the votes of those desiring change and progress for the city will outweigh those of the retarded baboons.

EDIT: I should also add that one of the above posters cites some dumbass professor from UTEX-Arlington (a bastion of prestige, no doubt) in order to reinforce a viewpoint he/she clearly already had. Pathetic. AN NBA TEAM IS A NET GAIN FOR THIS CITY WITHOUT QUESTION. It really isn't that hard to spell out. Please wake up, those of you voting no.

As one voting yes, but had serious reservations before coming around to my "YES" position, I plead with you to think twice about your style of campaigning. Calling those who are looking at voting "NO", or are on the fence, "retarded baboons" and calling their intelligence into question is only going to solidify their position into voting against this thing. You're not doing the proposal any favors.

[Theo Walcott]

I can't reason with Islamists, and I can't reason with morons like those. This vote will pass in a landslide. Relax.

[solitude]

I can't reason with Islamists, and I can't reason with morons like those. This vote will pass in a landslide. Relax.

If you think it's going to pass in a landslide - you should be the one to "relax". What's the purpose of your post if you think it's going to be a landslide "YES" vote?

[Theo Walcott]

To illuminate small minded thinking. Every community has their own set of "contrarians". It's funny to watch them be so stupid and set in their ways. By all means exercise your right to vote AND to be a moron.

IT'S A ONE-CENT SALES TAX!!!! TO GUARANTEE AN NBA FRANCHISE. It's really a shame to think that we must live among such plebians.

[venture]

I don't think this sales tax guarantees anything. It will make it easier for the City to get an NBA team, and definitely makes it more attactive. However, the NBA Board can still vote no to the relocation and keep the team in Seattle.

[dcsooner]

Theo, I certainly hope you are right. This vote is critical to the long term growth of a city that I Love!! the impact on the city and the State with the NBA can be enormous. I am nervous that a failure here would set the city and state back for years, whereas a favorable outcome would immediately raise the confidence, exposure, self esteem, notoriaty, and whatever else for OKC and in my opinion jump start a firestorm of development in 'downtown OKC. I remain cautiously optimistic here in DC hoping the largest City in my home State can soon send a team with OKC on its jersey to DC to play the Wizards. There are many Sooners here (OU alumni Club of DC)
who are anxiously awaiting the outcome of this vote, who cannot vote, but realize the magnitude of the moment. Please OKC grab the moment to move quantum leaps ahead. Man would that be awesome

[solitude]

Theo, Would you support a one-cent national sales tax to fund health care for every American? Seems like a no-brainer, but there would be HUGE opposition. Google "one cent sales tax" and see what all is being proposed for "just a penny!!" Most all of the proposals sound reasonable - it's a matter of where your priorities and convictions lie. I support a "YES" vote, but understand those who choose to vote "NO." They are not stupid, "retarded baboons" or anything else. There are things that I might think seems like a slam dunk for only a penny sales tax and YOU might not support it. And that should be fine. This is NOT a bad guy/good guy vote on March 4th. Don't let your emotions run away with you.

[HOT ROD]

Theo, I think Solitude is right in many ways.

You dont get people to 'see the light' by offending them. I understand your point-of-view (because I agree, to me it's a no-brainer). But, people are entitled to their opinion AND many of the no vote people have valid points.

But bottom line is - OKC can't YET act that way. It is a NEW city to the big leagues, and as such needs to pay-the-price so to say, in order to join the club. Think of it as a fraternity rush, where pledges (such as OKC) have to get rushed into the frat (as in NBA league of cities). In order to get in, you have to do what the seniors tell you (which usually means PAY UP in some sort of fashion).

I know sol you have changed to yes, and I do applaud you for that so hopefully we can convince others that THIS TIME we need to lay down our personal pride a bit and have some CIVIC PRIDE!! Next time (if there is one, we can make things right....)

Theo (and others), Vote Yes for your City!!!

[DavidGlover]

My questions for the city council of Oklahoma City

[Doug Loudenback]

Here is what David was trying to post ...



BTW, David, double-posting is sometimes frowned on here ... but you probably didn't know that and I am being your accomplice, this one time!

[DavidGlover]

I went back and fixed the embed and then I was a new member so there was a lag in my posts showing up. I never meant to double post in any thread or topic. Thanks.

[betts]

Just be honest. And don't take any help from the Seattle folks, because they do not have your best interests at heart. Especially Chris Van Dyke, who's theme you used in one of the sentences of your video. There's no one in Seattle who wants to do anything to help OKC, believe me. Or, if they're "helping", their help is based on self interest. Seattle's only hope of keeping their NBA team is if this vote doesn't pass. It's possible the team will go to Kansas City, Las Vegas, Louisville, Anaheim or elsewhere, but it's also possible that Bennett will get discouraged and sell the team to Seattle locals.

[DavidGlover]

Which theme, which sentence. Let me know, I will be able to tell you where it came from. I promise I have probably done more research into to this topic: Arena Economics, NBA Economics, Taxes, Corporate Welfare than anyone else on OKC Talk. I wish people could try to strip away the emotion and think and understand what is really going on.

[Doug Loudenback]

Which theme, which sentence. Let me know, I will be able to tell you where it came from. I promise I have probably done more research into to this topic: Arena Economics, NBA Economics, Taxes, Corporate Welfare than anyone else on OKC Talk. I wish people could try to strip away the emotion and think and understand what is really going on.

David, I think that some of us here are hoping that you have the ability to do the same. You are just one person and you have no corner on the "truth" or facts. I'm working up a detailed reply, but just now I'm going to go watch the Hornets v. Rockets game, presently more important to me than finishing that project. Later, I'll get back to it and will post it ... either here on in your video thread. But, puhlease do not be so arrogant to think that those who might deign to disagree with you are uninformed or ignorant of the facts. Whether it be you, or some other poster who presumes to know so much better than all the rest, your or their (or my) presumed superiority in knowledge will not be positively rewarded. Unless you have the openness to acknowledge that you may be wrong, you will not likely find an audience to your liking here. Or anywhere outside of those who think and feel exactly as you do. Then, you'd be talking to yourself.

This afternoon, I've closely looked at what you said to the Council, and much of what you said is/was clearly wrong, in my opinion. My reply will follow shortly, saying why I think that way. Now, I'm gone to the game.

[DavidGlover]

Most of the video was questions: Kinda like. VOTE NO = Lower Taxes. Who is funding all the advertising? The NBA can come without taxpayer funded luxury improvements. 121 Million divided by 550,000 residents is the equivalent of $200+ on every man woman and child. Not all but most of the $200 will be on the citizens of OKC. Do most citizens think there is where they want their money to go? Is this the most important thing? Do you think it is misleading that Cornett says - a yes vote won't raise taxes? What can't occur in the Ford Center now? Roy Williams said it is basically required by NBA economics - do you know why? I do. How about we go somewhere with a video camera we both get equal time and we both present our cases and post it.

[SouthsideSooner]

You have all the time you want on this forum, David.

Why do you need a video camera?

Do you crave the attention? Are you looking for personal recognition?

[DavidGlover]

I don't type fast. I don't have a video camera. I post my real name. I think we could both encapsulate our case and the other would reply. I think the televised debates are much more interesting than back and forth forums. More people can watch, than will read.