Cannabis

[bluedogok]

Because you start to feel the relief from pot almost immediately. Plus, why do I need Big Pharm to make a pill for me (when I dont know whats in it) when I could use the all natural pot. And before you say that the smoke is harmful, you can always use a vaporizer that is smokeless.

Edibles are also legal under the current medical marijuana laws in the State of Colorado, that went into effect in 2000 and seems to have been a success. It has been stated that Colorado has some of the strictest medical marijuana laws, both for growing and selling.

The feds have cracked down on dispensaries that are close to the 1,000 foot school buffer, most others they have left alone. The main point of enforcement has been against the banks and payment processors the dispensaries used. Because they are processing "drug money" the Feds have tried to charge them under RICO statues. most dispensaries have had to go to cash operations because of heavy handed federal enforcement and that has created an additional potential for armed robbery on the shops since they are dealing with cash. It seems like that would hurt the feds ability to track sales since it is much easier to take a cash business that you cannot deposit money from "off the books", that just goes against what the gov't likes to do in tracking what people do.

Like I have said a thousand times - if a state thinks it is the key to prosperous and happy society let them give it a try. If a state thinks it will do harm to the society they should be free to restrict access. I am all for states having the ability to decide. The state that comes up with the best combination would then be seen as a model for the others.

Amendment 64 in Colorado was a petition amendment, this was initiated by a public petition and voted for by the population, not the legislature. Most of the legislature was not in favor of 64 and the governor was not and he made his money in the craft beer industry. A similar petition failed a few years ago.

[RadicalModerate]

as stoners' hopes recede
like sunset reflecting off the mud
of the former lake hefner
in conjunction with
the untimely demise
of hostess twinkies
and the disturbed view
from the former porch
of red rock cafe restaurant whatever
a new day dawns
with the resurgence of . . .



a product of either CheXerboardRalstonSquare
or that Quaker oats dude
i forget . . . selectively. =)

(so bluedog . . . just out of curiosity . . . have you been to the top of The Third Flatiron yet? =)

[Dubya61]

Thanks for the answers. Like I mentioned, I was vehemently opposed to the legalization, but the more research I do, and the more folks in law enforcement I talk to, the more I think I may change my mind. As of now, I'm a fence sitter. I wouldn't vote for a politician one way or the other based on this issue.

I'm open minded, but cautious (being a parent). Legal or not, I would prefer my kids avoid it, as with tobacco. Label me a hypocrite, but I don't mind them drinking once they reach 21, as long as they obey the law.

Thanks again, overall, a pretty mature discussion on the topic!

Thom, I don't pretend to speak for Jim Kyle and I don't intend to equate your stance with mine, but if you haven't already done so, go back and read Jim's posts in this thread. His comments have virtually persuaded me to support the legalization of cannabis. My only sticking point: I believe that there ought to be some easy field test similar to a breathalyzer for cannabis before it is fully made legal. Otherwise, we're clearly losing a war on this substance with some serious damage done to small time "combatants" in this war. The statistics of women and racial minorities in prison for drug-related offenses bothers me the most. Like terrorism, the unintended victims in this war are poverty-level people driven by a need to make a living where "above-the-table" options are rare.

[Jim Kyle]

Just in case anyone wants to see what Dubya61 refers to, it's post #60 on this thread.

I don't have strong feelings either way about marijuana or its relatives; it never appealed to me, but then I've never been fond of the idea of surrendering control of myself to any other person or substance. I've written elsewhere (on Doug's blog to be specific) about how I escaped the clutches of alcohol due to one spectacular binge.

I do, however, have very strong feelings about selective enforcement of laws, and especially about corruption of those charged with that enforcement. Like many if not most of my contemporaries, I once swore to defend our Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic, and I think that among such domestic enemies of our Constitution must be numbered those who enforce laws of questionable validity primarily against those least able to defend themselves. Not far behind, too, are those legislators who create such questionable statutes, and the demagogues who provide their support.

Who else remembers that oath? Is it still meaningful, or is defending "just a scrap of paper" still worthwhile?

[LandRunOkie]

In the last 5-6 years there have been more deaths in Mexico than there was during the Vietnam war and it has nothing to do with the fact that Mexico relaxed their drug laws, rather it has everything to do with Americans appetite for drugs.

Not if you include the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese government concluded 2 million Vietnamese civilians died during the war. It turns out the hippies were right and Nixon was wrong, we shouldn't have been involved in that mess.

[Bunty]

The statistics of women and racial minorities in prison for drug-related offenses bothers me the most. Like terrorism, the unintended victims in this war are poverty-level people driven by a need to make a living where "above-the-table" options are rare.

It was surely a backlash from accomplishments of the civil rights movement, including women's liberation from the 1960s. Then the 1970s came and Nixon ignored suggestions from his own drug committee to decriminalize marijuana and declared war on drugs. It was also Nixon's way of getting back at the anti-war movement. The desire to correct Nixon's mistakes provides some of the motivation to legalize marijuana.

[bluedogok]

(so bluedog . . . just out of curiosity . . . have you been to the top of The Third Flatiron yet? =)

Nope, I haven't done any climbing yet unless it was in the car or on the motorcycle like up Mount Evans or Independence Pass.

Thom, I don't pretend to speak for Jim Kyle and I don't intend to equate your stance with mine, but if you haven't already done so, go back and read Jim's posts in this thread. His comments have virtually persuaded me to support the legalization of cannabis. My only sticking point: I believe that there ought to be some easy field test similar to a breathalyzer for cannabis before it is fully made legal. Otherwise, we're clearly losing a war on this substance with some serious damage done to small time "combatants" in this war. The statistics of women and racial minorities in prison for drug-related offenses bothers me the most. Like terrorism, the unintended victims in this war are poverty-level people driven by a need to make a living where "above-the-table" options are rare.

Austin has "no refusal" periods where they have a trailer with a judge to issue warrants for blood tests, I could see a similar set up where there is a judge available to issue blood draw warrants for any type of DUI (alcohol, marijuana or any other kind of drug). You don't have to fail a field sobriety test to be taken to jail, after all most states have something similar to a "Driving While Impaired" statue that the legal threshold is much lower than a 0.8% BAC, many times it is a judgment call. Just because something isn't in place right now doesn't mean that adaption to something new can't occur, because pretty much every thing was "new" and some point and required the appropriate response.

[OKCRT]

Nope, I haven't done any climbing yet unless it was in the car or on the motorcycle like up Mount Evans or Independence Pass.



Austin has "no refusal" periods where they have a trailer with a judge to issue warrants for blood tests, I could see a similar set up where there is a judge available to issue blood draw warrants for any type of DUI (alcohol, marijuana or any other kind of drug). You don't have to fail a field sobriety test to be taken to jail, after all most states have something similar to a "Driving While Impaired" statue that the legal threshold is much lower than a 0.8% BAC, many times it is a judgment call. Just because something isn't in place right now doesn't mean that adaption to something new can't occur, because pretty much every thing was "new" and some point and required the appropriate response.

When you really sit down and think about this issue I come to one conclusion. It's completely insane that weed is illegal and booze is legal. I mean booze does so much more damage than weed in all aspects and it's not even close. This law is really retarded if you think about it.

[bluedogok]

The law is rooted in business interests, namely DuPont nylon wanting to reduce competition from hemp and the tobacco industry, later the pharmaceutical, alcohol and law enforcement industries. Most legislation is rooted in business interests and lobbyists, nothing much changes in DC or in state houses all over the country.

[LandRunOkie]

The Oklahoman weighs in on the issue with some hard-hitting commentary
Colorado law has Oklahoma boarder county poised to respond
Yes that is a typo in the headline... and yes they still expect to be taken seriously.

[onthestrip]

That editorial had me thinking, "huh?" I really didnt see the point they were trying to make. Trying to reduce cigarett smoking by the public and decriminalizing pot is really apples to oranges.

[ThomPaine]

Thom, I don't pretend to speak for Jim Kyle and I don't intend to equate your stance with mine, but if you haven't already done so, go back and read Jim's posts in this thread. His comments have virtually persuaded me to support the legalization of cannabis. My only sticking point: I believe that there ought to be some easy field test similar to a breathalyzer for cannabis before it is fully made legal. Otherwise, we're clearly losing a war on this substance with some serious damage done to small time "combatants" in this war. The statistics of women and racial minorities in prison for drug-related offenses bothers me the most. Like terrorism, the unintended victims in this war are poverty-level people driven by a need to make a living where "above-the-table" options are rare.

I bet you and I are pretty close in our current opinions. If you have an opportunity, speak to a few law enforcement folks. Not all will be in agreement, but I found many who thought we should head toward legalization. I will say, I had the opportunity to speak to some folks at the DEA in DC, they're clearly not on board with the idea of legalization. Of course, that's like asking an IRS agent if he's in favor of a flat tax, the answer will be "no."

Thanks for reminding me to go back and read Jim's other posts.

[ThomPaine]

The Oklahoman weighs in on the issue with some hard-hitting commentary
Colorado law has Oklahoma boarder county poised to respond
Yes that is a typo in the headline... and yes they still expect to be taken seriously.

Any time you see wording like this: "It makes no sense to portray cigarettes as a societal plague but marijuana as a state-sanctioned, harmless vice." You know the writer has an agenda. Does Colorado view alcohol as a "state sanctioned, harmless vice"? My assumption is that they do not, and will try to figure out how to treat marijuana in a similar fashion. Similarly, I imagine that any current "no smoking" policies will extend to marijuana.

I will say that one of the major reasons I was never propelled down that path, was the process. Inhaling smoke into my lungs, from any burning substance, has never been high on my list of "smart" things to do to yourself. Now, shotgunning beers was a whole different matter...

[LandRunOkie]

I will say that one of the major reasons I was never propelled down that path, was the process. Inhaling smoke into my lungs, from any burning substance, has never been high on my list of "smart" things to do to yourself. Now, shotgunning beers was a whole different matter...

I am a fan of the Discovery channel show Weed Wars. On the dispensary in that show, they usually steer first time users towards cannabutter, a cannabinoid-enhanced form of regular cooking butter. Hopefully anybody suffering from debilitating illness is aware of this option. It is much more user-friendly and less stigmatic than smoking. It also keeps your lungs clear if you like to exercise and you don't smell like a Jethro Tull dressing room if you go out to run errands.

[ThomPaine]

I am a fan of the Discovery channel show Weed Wars. On the dispensary in that show, they usually steer first time users towards cannabutter, a cannabinoid-enhanced form of regular cooking butter. Hopefully anybody suffering from debilitating illness is aware of this option. It is much more user-friendly and less stigmatic than smoking. It also keeps your lungs clear if you like to exercise and you don't smell like a Jethro Tull dressing room if you go out to run errands.

I guess that would be a good option for folks needing the THC for medicinal purposes. Not so much for socializing!

[LandRunOkie]

You bring up a good point. The legalization movement isn't about getting people to smoke pot (although 40% of the country admits that they have). Its about introducing common sense into our drug policy. I really don't care whether you smoke ThomPaine, unless you are very sick. Then compassion comes into play. Civilized people should let the very ill use whatever treatment they believe can bring them relief.

[kevinpate]

I guess that would be a good option for folks needing the THC for medicinal purposes. Not so much for socializing!

maybe make different color cookies and use them as poker chips, checkers, chess pieces, pente stones?

[bluedogok]

Like I stated earlier, edibles are a pretty popular alternative here to lighting one up. Even when recreational use goes into effect here, public use will still be banned from everything that I have read.

Here is an article about edibles from the Denver alternative weekly paper.
Westword - Medical marijuana: Top 10 medicated edibles in Colorado

[Bunty]

The Oklahoman weighs in on the issue with some hard-hitting commentary
Colorado law has Oklahoma boarder county poised to respond
Yes that is a typo in the headline... and yes they still expect to be taken seriously.

I wonder what the cops will do about it when a motorist they have stopped refuses request to let them search his car? Give him a sobriety test, pronounce him DUI, arrest him and proceed to search his car? As few locals as there are to fine, I wouldn't be surprised, if the cops turn to doing something dishonest like that. If fine money goes to their district, they will be further motivated.

[Dubya61]

I wonder what the cops will do about it when a motorist they have stopped refuses request to let them search his car? Give him a sobriety test, pronounce him DUI, arrest him and proceed to search his car? As few locals as there are to fine, I wouldn't be surprised, if the cops turn to doing something dishonest like that. If fine money goes to their district, they will be further motivated.

I suspect you're right. This is more fuel for the fire (I'm stoking) that says the "war" on drugs is more about BATF (and other LEO organizaitons) and DOC budgets and totally disregards the human toll.

[ThomPaine]

I wonder what the cops will do about it when a motorist they have stopped refuses request to let them search his car? Give him a sobriety test, pronounce him DUI, arrest him and proceed to search his car? As few locals as there are to fine, I wouldn't be surprised, if the cops turn to doing something dishonest like that. If fine money goes to their district, they will be further motivated.

Maybe in small towns, but I think larger cities and counties are tired of dealing with it.

[soonerguru]

Do you ever wonder why someone would risk years in prison over getting high? Does that seem like a logical well thought out decision, or do you think it is possible that smoking an addictive substance might be clouding their judgment just a bit?

Do not like.

[soonerguru]

Yes but legalizing pot will compound the problem of impaired drivers.

It's easier for young people to buy pot than beer. Why? Because alcohol is highly regulated by government. You act as if pot is unavailable right now. Wrong. It's widely available. And it's production and distribution is completely unregulated.

And what this does is ensure that all of the profits from marijuana flow to dangerous drug cartels. No thanks.

To me, your argument boils down to "legalization will lead to higher usage." This may or may not be true. It has not been the case in other countries. Fairly weak argument given the other pros and cons.

[soonerguru]

Sorry but aside from pain relief I just don't see why anyone needs a conscious altering supplement to cope with their life.

This is an example of you imparting your personal mores on others, kinda like the Puritans. People have used mind-altering substances for centuries. Animals use them. Jesus drank wine -- and maybe smoked some killer indica as well.

[mmonroe]

Another thought (guess, maybe) of mine is that there is possibly an additional benefit to decriminalizing pot, especially in a state that has a meth problem like Oklahoma. If pot were legal, and thus turned out to be cheaper than it is now off the street, you might have some habitual druggies smoking pot since its legal, easy, and sort of cheap rather than meth all the time.

Do you think more hardcore drug users would switch from their terrible terrible drugs to something a little more "organic" and a hell of a lot safer? Would we see a reduction in the use in more hardcore illegal substances?