Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[OKCisOK4me]

Pretty sure its already been mentioned about the water release. ..

[law]

who is "we"

"We" are the people in western Oklahoma who have tried to raise awareness of at least part of OKC's water situation. If you have read this thread, you will see many comments--it's ours, we paid for it, we'll do what we want, we are the many, you are the few, we need it, you don't.

First, you are not the only ones that pay. Only 25% of the project costs are paid by OKC. Taxpayers subsidize the other 75% of the project operating fees.

Canton is like a plate, Hefner is like a bowl. When Canton is as low as it will be after this draw, Canton will be inactive. Hefner is 75 ft deep. 17 ft low at Hefner is not the same as 17 ft low at Canton. Yes, in the summer, Canton has a larger evaporation rate due to it's larger surface area, but it is not summer yet. No one asked OKC to never take the water, they only asked for you to wait, even for a month or two. It would have been worth the risk. We could have had rains between Canton and OKC that would have filled Hefner, making the draw unnecessary, saving Canton's water for a later need.

That's why I'm saying you should pray for rain. Until it rains above Canton Lake, there will be no more water from Canton. My understanding is when the water stops flowing, you are done until the Lake recharges enough to get released water to OKC.

I know what will happen to Canton and the small towns around it, and I think everyone who gets their water from Canton should know the real costs. I think people totally dependent on Hefner water should know their situation. What is plan B? I would think they have some plan B.

[OSUFan]

It just feels weird to have people from NW OK scolding us on water conservation and how we decided to use our water.

[Midtowner]

Plan B is probably the Atoka Pipeline and eventually figuring out the Sardis situation. I agree it's probably not fair to Canton to have their lake be Plan A when OKC has been planning for eons to look to SE Oklahoma for water.

As far as conservation goes, OKC sells a certain lifestyle. That includes watering your yard. For all the folks in Canton who rely on that lake for tourism, there are probably several folks in OKC economically dependent on well-watered yards. From lawn mowers to the folks who apply chemical treatments and fertilizer to landscapers, etc. OKC put OKC's needs first. I'd expect anyplace else to do the same.

If NW Oklahoma thinks this is a really big deal, maybe your legislators should push a statewide water use plan and push for OKC and the Indians to figure out their issues.

[law]

You're being just a little bit melodramatic here.

Canton was built for one purpose--to hold water for the use of OKC. It's being used for that purpose. Locals need to be thankful they were provided that lake and its use in the good years.

Canton was not built just for OKC. Canton was built for flood control, irrigation, and water supplies. OKC's contract began in 1991.

Maybe never is a little dramatic, but 5 years is very possible. If this is a 10 year drought, coupled with irrigation wells lowering the ground water, 10 years is a possibility.

[OSUFan]

How did OKC get the contract in 1991? Honest question because I don't know how this stuff works? Was there any attempt no let this happen so the lake was never endanger since it is so vital to NW OK?

[ou48A]

Canton was built for one purpose--to hold water for the use of OKC.

You are not correct.


The lake was originally built to supply the Enid area but since Enid did not access its water storage rights, the rights were later reassigned to Oklahoma City.

[ou48A]

It just feels weird to have people from NW OK scolding us on water conservation and how we decided to use our water.

Scolding us happens to us all the time, from people with different interest.
Just look at how we are told we can use our energy. They scold us over the type’s cars we drive to the appliances in our homes and more.

[catch22]

I think the criticism is fair....Really, if there is no more water left after this release, what do we do next year? I think these are fair questions to ask. We can't build a pipeline over night.

We just spent the last dollar in the savings account for NW OKC, so to speak. When checking dries up we don't have any more...

[OKCRT]

I think the criticism is fair....Really, if there is no more water left after this release, what do we do next year? I think these are fair questions to ask. We can't build a pipeline over night.

We just spent the last dollar in the savings account for NW OKC, so to speak. When checking dries up we don't have any more...

So I am just wondering if I should waste water to wash my PU in hopes of more rain? Like a catch 22

[pw405]

So I am just wondering if I should waste water to wash my PU in hopes of more rain? Like a catch 22

Seems to work for me. Every time I wash my car... I swear.

[law]

How did OKC get the contract in 1991? Honest question because I don't know how this stuff works? Was there any attempt no let this happen so the lake was never endanger since it is so vital to NW OK?

I would imagine OKCWT went to the Corps and basically said Enid is using wells, we need water, Corps and OKCWT negotiated an agreement, it was approved, Bush signed. Done. Often people think Canton was involved with the discussion, money, and rights. Completely false.

Most years, even when water is low, all Canton really asks is water releases be delayed beyond Memorial Day. We have been trying to tell OKC residents this is not like previous draws. This is an entirely different situation. This is a real all out drought. Canton has not been as low as it will be after the draw since the '50s, more than 50 years ago. Look how OKC has grown, how much more water you use. How many dependent water districts you've added. Canton has much less water now, and demands are higher.

There is no need to scold. Canton's water is gone, or at least will be in a couple of weeks. As you say, it's drinking water. Not landscape water, not lifestyle water, you need drinking water. And, as you say, it is your water. So, please, use it as quickly as possible, and in any way you see fit. Water your streets anytime.

When OKCWT calls for water, and the Corps say, there is no water, what will you do then?

Pray for rain, especially for those in need.

[C_M_25]

Listen, I hate to see Canton being drawn down as much as anybody. However, you have no right to be so condescending to residents of OKC. Have you thought about the other ways that Canton water has been used as of late? Maybe you should look at how much water has been sold to oil companies for drilling and completing their wells. You may be surprised. Also, how much water do residents use to keep their lawns green up your way? I go up that way quite often and I see plenty of green lawns out there in the middle of summer.

This was an inevitability for Canton, unfortunately, because drought is no stranger to NW Oklahoma. The "rolling hills" up there are nothing but dormant dune fields like The Little Sahara, so we know that area was and will be dry for extended periods of time. The fact of the matter is that OKC has the rights to a certain amount of water out of that lake and we took it. Sorry, but it would have happened sooner or later.

Now, for OKC's use of the water: It seems like I can drive around in any given day and see people water their dormant grass using mist sprinklers in the middle of the day. I hate it as much as anybody, but you can't criticize those people. OKC does a poor job getting the word out about our water issues. Most people are completely OBLIVIOUS to the situation. There are two ways to make people aware: extensive campaigning and water rate increases. I have a feeling that people will not care enough until we have rate increase. I personally plan to do some xerisscaping this year, and that should help us conserve a bit of water. I will probably also install rain barrels on our gutters. (Every little bit helps.) Oklahoma is settling down into a period of lower-than-normal rainfall. This trend really has been going for about the past 8 or 9 years. Sure, there may be a year or two in there where it rained a lot, but the general trend is decreased rainfall. We could use a really really wet spring, but I'm just preaching to the choir here.

[OKCisOK4me]

law,

Your point is about as simple as torea on blowing train whistles. At least you live in the state.

I'm certain that everyone who has read this thread between now and however long ago has gone home at night and thought about how they can be active in making a difference. But the masses on okctalk are probably less than 1% of the OKC metro population. If you want to get a good reaction, form a group--like what was done with Friends for a Better Boulevard. Use Facebook and print material. Even though media has touched on it, reach out to all the local stations and share your cause. Go to a city council meeting and present your case. We forum readers can do things here but not much is going to change unless you're able to inform the other 99% about it.

[jn1780]

I think the criticism is fair....Really, if there is no more water left after this release, what do we do next year? I think these are fair questions to ask. We can't build a pipeline over night.

We just spent the last dollar in the savings account for NW OKC, so to speak. When checking dries up we don't have any more...

True, all the eastern supplies of water mean nothing until pipelines get built. The drought is going to last at least one more year, and we already have problems now. Hefner and Canton will go down a lot this summer and they could have the Draper water treatment plant going at 100% all the time, but I bet the Hefner facility would still be using a lot of water. The water isn't distributed well at all and that's not going to fixed anytime soon.

[OKCRT]

True, all the eastern supplies of water mean nothing until pipelines get built. The drought is going to last at least one more year, and we already have problems now. Hefner and Canton will go down a lot this summer and they could have the Draper water treatment plant going at 100% all the time, but I bet the Hefner facility would still be using a lot of water. The water isn't distributed well at all and that's not going to fixed anytime soon.

OKC will use the Canton water and drain it dry then use the se ok water supply. That's the way it works and okc has every right to do so. Supplying okc with water is their number 1 priority and as ruthless as it might be,that's their job. If they can get the se ok. water supplied to okc then all problems solved. There's enough water in that area to supply a city much larger than okc for a lifetime.

[catch22]

OKC will use the Canton water and drain it dry then use the se ok water supply. That's the way it works and okc has every right to do so. Supplying okc with water is their number 1 priority and as ruthless as it might be,that's their job. If they can get the se ok. water supplied to okc then all problems solved. There's enough water in that area to supply a city much larger than okc for a lifetime.

Except for there are areas (NW OKC) that are connected only to Hefner. They are not connected to the SE water supplies. And they won't be connected anytime soon. So again, what does NW OKc do next year when Hefner is dry and Canton is dry?

[OKCisOK4me]

Kinda funny that News9 just ran a story about Canton!

[ou48A]

Kinda funny that News9 just ran a story about Canton!

Yes and they practically quoted my post #235

[law]

law,

Your point is about as simple as torea on blowing train whistles. At least you live in the state.

I'm certain that everyone who has read this thread between now and however long ago has gone home at night and thought about how they can be active in making a difference. But the masses on okctalk are probably less than 1% of the OKC metro population. If you want to get a good reaction, form a group--like what was done with Friends for a Better Boulevard. Use Facebook and print material. Even though media has touched on it, reach out to all the local stations and share your cause. Go to a city council meeting and present your case. We forum readers can do things here but not much is going to change unless you're able to inform the other 99% about it.

Not only do I live in the state, I have lived in OKC, my husband was born and raised there, and I have a lot of family living there. We have to start somewhere. Even 1% is a group we must seek. All the things you mentioned are in the works, or being done now. Several TV stations were here today. Mostly, the stories were too bad for Canton. TV stations need revenue, revenue comes from ads, big companies pay for ads. Their prospective is the news.

Please believe me, it is not my intent to scold. Before the release, the problem was Canton's. We have had many meetings with people who control the water. Truly, all we asked was for a delay, an opportunity for Hefner to fill with whatever spring rains and ground water will be available before the choice was made to drain Canton. OKCWT did not do that. Now the problem is yours. If there are no rains above Canton after this release, there will be no water. If there are no rains for 5 years, there will be no water for 5 years. There are at least 200,000 people totally dependent on Hefner water. Don't you think they are owed an explanation? What if the drought is even worse this year? Don't you think residents have a right to all the information?

If I was a vindictive person, I would say too bad, and hope that OKC will feel the effects of the drought first hand. Instead, I'm trying to warn you of the difficult situation some of you may face. I hope that will not be the case. You may have numbers here, but what will you say when DFW wants water? After all, they need drinking water too. Why would you think the few of you could stand in the way of a larger group of people who also need water?

Pray for rain. Especially those in real need.

[ljbab728]

The Corps will open the only usable gate, and drain the Lake. It is unknown when the water will stop, but at that point, OKC is done.

You said you were only telling the truth but this is not the truth. There is a specific amount of water being released.

Water from Canton Lake headed to OKC | KFOR.com ? Oklahoma City News & Weather from KFOR Television, Oklahoma's News Channel 4

Early Wednesday the Army Corps of Engineers began releasing 30,000 acre feet of water from Canton Lake, down the North Canadian River.

It will take about two weeks but eventually the water will end up in Lake Hefner.

[jn1780]

Except for there are areas (NW OKC) that are connected only to Hefner. They are not connected to the SE water supplies. And they won't be connected anytime soon. So again, what does NW OKc do next year when Hefner is dry and Canton is dry?

Every time this question is asked the same worn out response is given "OKC has water rights" which doesn't answer the question.

The truth is that the city double down and made the Hefner plant their state of the art water treatment facility and mother nature caught them with their pants down before they could find other sources of water for it. You could have Lake Michigan supplying Draper, but it doesn't matter when the Draper facility can only handle so much water.

Now the city is just trying to BS their way through until the drought hopefully ends soon.

[OKCisOK4me]

Not only do I live in the state, I have lived in OKC, my husband was born and raised there, and I have a lot of family living there. We have to start somewhere. Even 1% is a group we must seek. All the things you mentioned are in the works, or being done now. Several TV stations were here today. Mostly, the stories were too bad for Canton. TV stations need revenue, revenue comes from ads, big companies pay for ads. Their prospective is the news.

Please believe me, it is not my intent to scold. Before the release, the problem was Canton's. We have had many meetings with people who control the water. Truly, all we asked was for a delay, an opportunity for Hefner to fill with whatever spring rains and ground water will be available before the choice was made to drain Canton. OKCWT did not do that. Now the problem is yours. If there are no rains above Canton after this release, there will be no water. If there are no rains for 5 years, there will be no water for 5 years. There are at least 200,000 people totally dependent on Hefner water. Don't you think they are owed an explanation? What if the drought is even worse this year? Don't you think residents have a right to all the information?

If I was a vindictive person, I would say too bad, and hope that OKC will feel the effects of the drought first hand. Instead, I'm trying to warn you of the difficult situation some of you may face. I hope that will not be the case. You may have numbers here, but what will you say when DFW wants water? After all, they need drinking water too. Why would you think the few of you could stand in the way of a larger group of people who also need water?

Pray for rain. Especially those in real need.

And yet you continue on like we're all in the first grade. Go back early in this thread. I live on my own. Must I remind you that my water bill was $9.80 last month? Geez. You need to give a little more respect to those of us that are on here. I was just giving you some ideas, not knowing you're already well ahead of the curve. I'll do my part to make all 600 of my friends on Facebook aware of the situation.

And I don't think praying for rain is going to solve the problem, but I'll do my best to shake my booty for rain if I'm in the Woodward area (which for those of you that are geographically challenged, is upstream from Canton).

On edit: The newscast stated that only 200,000 gallons were being released from Canton? That's nothing. Think about how many gallons the average person uses in a day and multiply that by the northwest quadrant of OKC. That's an ear drop.

[therondo]

....

[jn1780]

And yet you continue on like we're all in the first grade. Go back early in this thread. I live on my own. Must I remind you that my water bill was $9.80 last month? Geez. You need to give a little more respect to those of us that are on here. I was just giving you some ideas, not knowing you're already well ahead of the curve. I'll do my part to make all 600 of my friends on Facebook aware of the situation.

And I don't think praying for rain is going to solve the problem, but I'll do my best to shake my booty for rain if I'm in the Woodward area (which for those of you that are geographically challenged, is upstream from Canton).

On edit: The newscast stated that only 200,000 gallons were being released from Canton? That's nothing. Think about how many gallons the average person uses in a day and multiply that by the northwest quadrant of OKC. That's an ear drop.

Its 20,000 acre feet of water which is about 6.5 billion gallons. 200,000 gallons would be less than a Olympic size pool. It would be nice if we were only talking about that much water. Lol