Access Oklahoma Turnpike Projects

[Jersey Boss]

Can you share links or details? I explored the site and didn’t find 57 additional projects.

(Crickets)

[mugofbeer]

All cars should go to tax based on miles and weight of vehicle. Gas taxes have basically stayed flat for decades as fuel economy, car weight, and inflation have all gone way up. Charging a flat fee on EVs is really not the best way to try to recoup some of the losses.

As was mentioned earlier, it would take a 2/3 vote to raise or implement a tax. Fat chance of 2/3 in OK or most states.

[Zorba]

As was mentioned earlier, it would take a 2/3 vote to raise or implement a tax. Fat chance of 2/3 in OK or most states.

There wasn't a 2/3 vote to tax EVs extra.

[mugofbeer]

Is it a "tax" or a "fee"?

[rte66man]

Can you share links or details? I explored the site and didn’t find 57 additional projects.

https://www.accessoklahoma.com/_file...99676eb7d7.pdf

3rd paragraph

[The]

https://www.accessoklahoma.com/_file...99676eb7d7.pdf

3rd paragraph

Thanks!

[jedicurt]

I know they have been doing a lot of survey work along indian hills, as i have personally seen this. but i heard a rumor this morning that the OTA is expected to have an updated route and renderings of the East-West corridor from I-44 to just past Sooner Rd, ready to show in October? has anyone else heard this?

[Jersey Boss]

https://www.citynewsokc.com/news/ana...e67b034ab.html

...No studies had been done at the time to prove a "public need" that justified a governmental exercise of eminent domain, and indeed, to this day (July 27, 2024), over two years later, not a single study has been attempted to justify Governor Kevin Stitt's heavy-handed approach in using the OTA to satisfy his toll road ambitions.

In 2023 AG Drummond requested an audit of OTA by the State Auditor, Byrd. Audit still pending

Now comes Norman Ward 5 City Councilperson Michael Nash with what could be a true turnpike stopper. His "RESOLUTION TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THE LAKE THUNDERBIRD WATERSHED, THE CANADIAN RIVER CORRIDOR, THE CITY’S DRINKING WATER SUPPLY, AND THE CITY’S FLOOD HAZARD AREAS" leaves few stones unturned.

The resolution uses the law as its foundation, starting with 11 OK Stat § 37-115, which states, in part, "No person, firm, partnership, or corporation, or any of the partners, officers, managers, or employees thereof, shall pollute or permit the pollution of the water supply of a municipality, or any stream, pond, spring, lake, or other water reservoir or groundwater aquifer, which is used or which is being held for use as a water supply by a municipality. A municipality may bring an action in the district court to enjoin any activity that will cause pollution of the water supply of a municipality whether or not such activity is regulated, licensed, or inspected."

That's it, and since the OTA pollutes everything it touches, it should be a no-brainer. Using this foundation, it is clear to see that powers have been given to Cities to control what happens to their water supply. The old saw that "State trumps city" falls apart under this sort of scrutiny. This time, City trumps the State.

As if that weren't enough, the resolution goes on to cite the City’s Flood Hazard Ordinance, Water Quality Protection Zone Ordinance, the Oklahoma Floodplain Management Act, and the National Pollutant Discharge System Stormwater Program, Phase II MS Compliance. If enacted by the City Council, this could be a true turnpike stopper.



Years, if ever away.

[BoulderSooner]

https://www.citynewsokc.com/news/ana...e67b034ab.html

...No studies had been done at the time to prove a "public need" that justified a governmental exercise of eminent domain, and indeed, to this day (July 27, 2024), over two years later, not a single study has been attempted to justify Governor Kevin Stitt's heavy-handed approach in using the OTA to satisfy his toll road ambitions.

In 2023 AG Drummond requested an audit of OTA by the State Auditor, Byrd. Audit still pending

Now comes Norman Ward 5 City Councilperson Michael Nash with what could be a true turnpike stopper. His "RESOLUTION TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THE LAKE THUNDERBIRD WATERSHED, THE CANADIAN RIVER CORRIDOR, THE CITY’S DRINKING WATER SUPPLY, AND THE CITY’S FLOOD HAZARD AREAS" leaves few stones unturned.

The resolution uses the law as its foundation, starting with 11 OK Stat § 37-115, which states, in part, "No person, firm, partnership, or corporation, or any of the partners, officers, managers, or employees thereof, shall pollute or permit the pollution of the water supply of a municipality, or any stream, pond, spring, lake, or other water reservoir or groundwater aquifer, which is used or which is being held for use as a water supply by a municipality. A municipality may bring an action in the district court to enjoin any activity that will cause pollution of the water supply of a municipality whether or not such activity is regulated, licensed, or inspected."

That's it, and since the OTA pollutes everything it touches, it should be a no-brainer. Using this foundation, it is clear to see that powers have been given to Cities to control what happens to their water supply. The old saw that "State trumps city" falls apart under this sort of scrutiny. This time, City trumps the State.

As if that weren't enough, the resolution goes on to cite the City’s Flood Hazard Ordinance, Water Quality Protection Zone Ordinance, the Oklahoma Floodplain Management Act, and the National Pollutant Discharge System Stormwater Program, Phase II MS Compliance. If enacted by the City Council, this could be a true turnpike stopper.



Years, if ever away.

lol no .. nash is a clown .. and that resolution even if passed .. doesn't do anything ..

[TheTravellers]

https://www.citynewsokc.com/news/ana...e67b034ab.html

...No studies had been done at the time to prove a "public need" that justified a governmental exercise of eminent domain, and indeed, to this day (July 27, 2024), over two years later, not a single study has been attempted to justify Governor Kevin Stitt's heavy-handed approach in using the OTA to satisfy his toll road ambitions.

In 2023 AG Drummond requested an audit of OTA by the State Auditor, Byrd. Audit still pending

Now comes Norman Ward 5 City Councilperson Michael Nash with what could be a true turnpike stopper. His "RESOLUTION TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THE LAKE THUNDERBIRD WATERSHED, THE CANADIAN RIVER CORRIDOR, THE CITY’S DRINKING WATER SUPPLY, AND THE CITY’S FLOOD HAZARD AREAS" leaves few stones unturned.

The resolution uses the law as its foundation, starting with 11 OK Stat § 37-115, which states, in part, "No person, firm, partnership, or corporation, or any of the partners, officers, managers, or employees thereof, shall pollute or permit the pollution of the water supply of a municipality, or any stream, pond, spring, lake, or other water reservoir or groundwater aquifer, which is used or which is being held for use as a water supply by a municipality. A municipality may bring an action in the district court to enjoin any activity that will cause pollution of the water supply of a municipality whether or not such activity is regulated, licensed, or inspected."

That's it, and since the OTA pollutes everything it touches, it should be a no-brainer. Using this foundation, it is clear to see that powers have been given to Cities to control what happens to their water supply. The old saw that "State trumps city" falls apart under this sort of scrutiny. This time, City trumps the State.

As if that weren't enough, the resolution goes on to cite the City’s Flood Hazard Ordinance, Water Quality Protection Zone Ordinance, the Oklahoma Floodplain Management Act, and the National Pollutant Discharge System Stormwater Program, Phase II MS Compliance. If enacted by the City Council, this could be a true turnpike stopper.



Years, if ever away.

It's not an "old saw", it's (unfortunately) the way OK works, it's a Dillon Rule state, the state can do pretty much whatever it wants if it decides it wants to badly enough (again, unfortunately).

[Jersey Boss]

It's not an "old saw", it's (unfortunately) the way OK works, it's a Dillon Rule state, the state can do pretty much whatever it wants if it decides it wants to badly enough (again, unfortunately).

This particular statute though was written while also a Dillon rule state. So there is that.
This scheme was stopped in 1999 so no reason to think it can't be stopped again.
This deal was cooked up by Stitt with no justification studies.

[Jeremy Martin]

I can understand the E/W connector that will eventually cross the river and connect to the Kickapoo but the other portion that starts in Purcell and then through Noble and east Norman makes no sense to me. The E/W connector, if built can take truck traffic out of OKC just as well as the outer loop can.

[mugofbeer]

https://www.citynewsokc.com/news/ana...e67b034ab.html

...No studies had been done at the time to prove a "public need" that justified a governmental exercise of eminent domain, and indeed, to this day (July 27, 2024), over two years later, not a single study has been attempted to justify Governor Kevin Stitt's heavy-handed approach in using the OTA to satisfy his toll road ambitions.

*this is not necessarily addressing you, J B, but a general question)

Was there ever a study of "public need" done before they built the Kilpatrick? Now look at it's "need."

There are probably hundreds of posts across this board of people complaining about how no one in this state ever tries to look forward, to anticipate growth, to plan ahead. Now, when a time comes that someone tries to do this by creating a long term hiway plan, setting hiway routes and building routes "as needed" people complain about it - accusing said people of corruption, pet projects and greed.

Wow! What if our leaders had looked forward 50 years ago, planned and implemented a long-term hiway plan where - instead of building it 1/4 way to Arkansas, the Kickapoo had been built closer-in. A long defunct proposal was to make Sooner Rd an East Outer Loop. Imagine if that had been implemented and a nice hiway built back then up Sooner Rd or Air Depot or Hiwassee Rd?

Is some of the opposition to the current plan simply because some of you don't like Stitt?

[rcjunkie]

I can understand the E/W connector that will eventually cross the river and connect to the Kickapoo but the other portion that starts in Purcell and then through Noble and east Norman makes no sense to me. The E/W connector, if built can take truck traffic out of OKC just as well as the outer loop can.

The portion running from Purcell and east of Norman will take tons of truck traffic off of I-35

[bombermwc]

The idea that it would be stopped simply because it crosses waterways is not going to "hold water" folks. Sorry, couldn't resist.

This can absolutely be built in a way that allows the flood/watershed/etc all to be protected. Roads are built across the country every day that do that. It's honestly, not difficult to do. Were doing it right now with interstate construction all over the state. Simply doing construction doesn't create pollution. The intent of that rule is to prevent people from dumping hazardous materials in water ways. But we've already seen the state is willing to protect chicken/pig farms from being prosecuted by even their own AG to protect from their waste run off. If the state is fighting itself, what do you think they're going to do to listen to a few residents in a sparsely populated area that would relieve massive amounts of congestion on 35/40?

It may take longer folks, but like has been said all along, its just delaying the inevitable. It's gonna happen, and frankly, it's needed. If the residents in the area weren't trying to spread so much disinformation, they would have helped their case more. Honestly, they didn't make many friends/supporters along the way. And Norman...no, the city is not going to win against the state. It may just be the next governor that gets it done.

[rcjunkie]

The idea that it would be stopped simply because it crosses waterways is not going to "hold water" folks. Sorry, couldn't resist.

This can absolutely be built in a way that allows the flood/watershed/etc all to be protected. Roads are built across the country every day that do that. It's honestly, not difficult to do. Were doing it right now with interstate construction all over the state. Simply doing construction doesn't create pollution. The intent of that rule is to prevent people from dumping hazardous materials in water ways. But we've already seen the state is willing to protect chicken/pig farms from being prosecuted by even their own AG to protect from their waste run off. If the state is fighting itself, what do you think they're going to do to listen to a few residents in a sparsely populated area that would relieve massive amounts of congestion on 35/40?

It may take longer folks, but like has been said all along, its just delaying the inevitable. It's gonna happen, and frankly, it's needed. If the residents in the area weren't trying to spread so much disinformation, they would have helped their case more. Honestly, they didn't make many friends/supporters along the way. And Norman...no, the city is not going to win against the state. It may just be the next governor that gets it done.

Good example is I-44 that runs next to Lake Hefner in OKC (OKC's main water source)

[BoulderSooner]

Good example is I-44 that runs next to Lake Hefner in OKC (OKC's main water source)

and 344 (the turnpike) runs right next to overholser ... and 240 runs right next to draper .. and I35 I44 run right next to arcadia ..(edmonds main water source)

[Jersey Boss]

MoB to answer your question as whether opinion(s) on this project is based on any feelings about Stitt. Let me remind you Stitt was nowhere around in 1999 when citizen involvemet put the kibosh on a similar proposal. It has nothing do do about him

[jedicurt]

MoB to answer your question as whether opinion(s) on this project is based on any feelings about Stitt. Let me remind you Stitt was nowhere around in 1999 when citizen involvement put the kibosh on a similar proposal. It has nothing do do about him

the difference between now and 1999, is that multiple cities and groups of people were opposed to the plans. that isn't the case now. the people of Harrah and several other small communities that were part of the protests in 1999, no longer care if it's build in Norman, because Norman wasn't there for the fight to stop theirs from being build since then. The courts seem to be more in favor of how the OTA is handling this, and has shown so by stopping every legal challenge so far. Also just the economics of growth have changed. the OKC metro is significantly larger now than it was 25 years ago... and a lot of the same arguments just aren't the same level of relevancy anymore.

[CaptDave]

Opponents need to familiarize themselves with NEPA. But one would think they have already done so....

[BoulderSooner]

Opponents need to familiarize themselves with NEPA. But one would think they have already done so....

you should look up NEPA and see that it doesn't apply to this project AT ALL

[Plutonic Panda]

These projects are happening and are going to happen much sooner than you think. I’ve spoken with this Nash guy and it’s just personal with him. These people get mad because houses are being taken from them, but they have no problem using other infrastructure that was built by taking peoples homes and properties. It’s all fine and dandy until it happens to them.

[bombermwc]

Yup...it's happening. Simply kicking the can sort of just makes the wound hurt more for the people affected. It holds them in limbo longer while they fight a pointless battle that they absolutely will eventually lose. And one that there is very little sympathy for from others around the city honestly. The rug hath been pulled sir.

[mugofbeer]

MoB to answer your question as whether opinion(s) on this project is based on any feelings about Stitt. Let me remind you Stitt was nowhere around in 1999 when citizen involvemet put the kibosh on a similar proposal. It has nothing do do about him

"..No studies had been done at the time to prove a "public need" that justified a governmental exercise of eminent domain, and indeed, to this day (July 27, 2024), over two years later, not a single study has been attempted to justify Governor Kevin Stitt's heavy-handed approach in using the OTA to satisfy his toll road ambitions."

It was already pointed out, 1999 was (......gulp...*feeling very old suddenly* ) 25 years ago. You will virtually never have a significant new infrastructure project that will not have some negative affect on someone.

As l said, it may not apply to you personally, but this published excerpt from your previous post indicates at least some portion of opposition to the program is directed at simply not liking Stitt.

[jn1780]

Telling the city of Norman that they shouldn't negotiate with OTA. I'm sure that will work out for them.

https://kfor.com/news/local/city-of-...ental-impacts/