Tinker AFB

[AFCM]

I just posted what I had heard; I'm not suggesting that any of it is true or feasible. That being the case, my former base, which was located in the middle of nowhere, allowed civilians to bowl at the installation bowling alley. I'm Security Forces, so I was a part of the process of granting them access to base. I don't recall every step in the process, but I do know that each person was issued a temporary visitor's pass. Allowing off-base civilians to enter for such a purpose is something that the AF has done before, although I don't know to what degree it could be done at Tinker.


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[bombermwc]

Sounds reasonable with the waste...heck MRMC has been providing the flighline ambulance service for over 10 years now. I probably jumped to a much too complicated idea when thinking about shifting it to the MWC center.

I've been on-base (total civilian here) with family and friends all my life. We even had my senior prom at the officer's club...my sister's wedding reception was at the now gone enlisted men's club. I know they have a habit of letting people on for events or when they're escorted, I just wasn't sure how they would feel/handle (especially in a post 9/11 era) with a regular trickle of people. Not saying it couldn't be done, just seems like you're putting an awful lot of trust in a jon q public to do what they say they will on going to the course. Not that it helps if you don't have a badge when you go anywhere on base to buy something or whatever, but it could be problematic if, for example, they don't go to the course and instead go to the residential area and steal something.

[Dennis Heaton]

Well, WRANGB will likely be getting a new airframe (RC-26) next year or in 2016. This will be used to support Army or OBN/DEA operations. The move to RC-26 should add a dozen or more AGR positions, but that's not really the big news.

Nothing may come of the efforts, but officials are trying to land special operations squadrons. If this occurred, WRANGB would move from the Mobility Command to Special Operations Command. This would be good news because AFSOC bases get tons of funding and support. It would mean that WRANGB would add positions, infrastructure, and funds while essentially making itself immune from BRAC for the foreseeable future.

My very last "assignment" in the Air Force was with the 682nd ASOC.

[BoulderSooner]

If that's true, MWC wouldn't be able to handle it with the infrastructure in place today. Tinker is a "city" of 50k people. There's no way that MWC could almost double it's amount of waste to process in a day without a HUGE plant construction project. Plus, since Tinker already has a plant, it wouldn't make sense to do it that way. Perhaps MWC will be staffing it rather than piping it all several miles up to the plant????

As for the golf course, they would really need to set up an access road to do that. The parking lot is on the opposite side of the course from 29th, on Arnold. Somehow I think it would defeat the purposes of security on the base if they regularly let the general public in unescorted. They never ended up opening up the plane museum for the public like was supposed to happen with the re-vamp of that park. With such a simple project there, it seems highly unlikely that they would just open things up like that. I'd bet first, they'd eat up the land for new construction since it's such a big parcel in a very tightly squeezed base. Being on the resident side, it would be prime land for a million uses.

The plane museum has been back open for months

[bombermwc]

Maybe now, but that was supposed to happen more than a decade ago...actually longer than that.

[Prunepicker]

And another bit of Trivia. The 137 refueling Air Wing Reserve Unit at Tinker
use to be the 137 Transport Wing located at Will Rogers ANG base - a
second AFB in OKC. They were the first Air National Guard Unit to receive
C-130 transport aircraft off the production line instead of 'hand me downs'
from the Air Force. They were H models and I spent a lot of time flying
the world in those planes.

Will Rogers is the refueling wing. I about cried when Henry decided
to replace the C-130's with the KC-137.

I've taken many trips on Hercs (C-130 Hercules). The C-130 is one of, if
not the most, versatile aircraft the military has.

[BrettM2]

Will Rogers is the refueling wing. I about cried when Henry decided
to replace the C-130's with the KC-137.

I've taken many trips on Hercs (C-130 Hercules). The C-130 is one of, if
not the most, versatile aircraft the military has.

It was the DoD that replaced the C-130 with the KC-135.

[Prunepicker]

It was the DoD that replaced the C-130 with the KC-135.

But gov henry agreed with it. He could have said no. He didn't. His
agreeing with General Wright was the demise of the C-130 wing.

Don't get me wrong, I like the KC 135's (I accidentally said 137) and I've
spent a lot of time with the "Boomer". I simply prefer the C-130's.

[ljbab728]

If you've heard the story about putting a monkey at a typewriter, sometimes the state legislature does something good even if it's by accident.

Oklahoma House votes to modify Quality Jobs Program Act for Tinker | News OK

[Tritone]

I stopped by WRANGB late in the afternoon the day the 130s left. There was a sort of hollow feeling out on the ramp...halfway expected to see Dean Jagger ride up.

[Just the facts]

If you've heard the story about putting a monkey at a typewriter, sometimes the state legislature does something good even if it's by accident.

Oklahoma House votes to modify Quality Jobs Program Act for Tinker | News OK

You realize they are approving this money AFTER the jobs have already been awarded to Tinker right? In my book that make this one of the dumbest expenditures of money in a long time.

Federal officials already have approved Tinker as the maintenance site for these civilian jobs

[ljbab728]

You realize they are approving this money AFTER the jobs have already been awarded to Tinker right? In my book that make this one of the dumbest expenditures of money in a long time.

I totally disagree. You neglected to point out this part.

Another 2,000 civilian jobs could be coming to Tinker later, Sears said

If you think this was approved without any advance discussion with the state I've got a nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Tinker has been a candidate for closure in the past and could be again in the future. Anything that solidifies the job base is great for OKC and for the state.

[BrettM2]

Tinker has been a candidate for closure in the past and could be again in the future. Anything that solidifies the job base is great for OKC and for the state.

This is exactly right. There has to be another BRAC round coming up, whether the current Congress wants it or not. Our military's infrastructure is too spread out to justify needing all of it while we're discharging tens of thousands of people per service. Tinker has made itself into a behemoth of a base, but they can't sit still and do nothing or the politics of the BRAC could outweigh just how important that base really is.

[bombermwc]

Yup and remember, economic impact on the surrounding community is NO LONGER part of the formula. If it turned OKC into a wasteland, it wouldn't matter.

That's short-sighted in my opinion since the overall economic impact is felt by the country when 50K people lose their job overnight. That's why it's important to continue to bring in more purpose to Tinker. Have it do as much as possible to make it more valuable.

You know, the FAA MMAC houses several different agency's servers in the data center in OKC (often as the DR site for those agencies). Does anyone know how the AF handles that sort of thing. Tinker could pretty easily put a bunker building in somewhere on the grounds (pretty much anywhere) and house servers. It's something that's a real pain in the rear to move so it adds value to the base.

[TheTravellers]

...

You know, the FAA MMAC houses several different agency's servers in the data center in OKC (often as the DR site for those agencies). Does anyone know how the AF handles that sort of thing. Tinker could pretty easily put a bunker building in somewhere on the grounds (pretty much anywhere) and house servers. It's something that's a real pain in the rear to move so it adds value to the base.

Most likely through a fee-for-service agreement, that's how they handled non-DoD stuff back when I was working for DISA there (1986-1995).

TAFB has been a candidate for closing since I worked there, wonder if it will ever be truly safe from closure...

[Dubya61]

Most likely through a fee-for-service agreement, that's how they handled non-DoD stuff back when I was working for DISA there (1986-1995).

TAFB has been a candidate for closing since I worked there, wonder if it will ever be truly safe from closure...

Hopefully, no location will ever be truly safe from closure. The entire purpose behind BRAC proceedings is to make sure we're using our dollars in the most advantageous method possible.
and then we hand the decision over to politicians to pervert every bit of logic therein.

[BoulderSooner]

You realize they are approving this money AFTER the jobs have already been awarded to Tinker right? In my book that make this one of the dumbest expenditures of money in a long time.

Among the many post you have on this site. This very well might be the most incorrect and uninformed

[TheTravellers]

Hopefully, no location will ever be truly safe from closure. The entire purpose behind BRAC proceedings is to make sure we're using our dollars in the most advantageous method possible.
and then we hand the decision over to politicians to pervert every bit of logic therein.

Heh, agree with the last part, but does it really make sense to keep going over and over and over and over the same stuff/bases time and again? It's kind of like Apple doing the same thing with every one of their stores every year, even the ones that perform at 150% every quarter that will most likely never close? Or is TAFB not at that point yet, where they're truly invaluable? Maybe after the 20th round of BRAC (not sure what round they're on now, they were on the first or second round during my tenure there), TAFB will have made itself too valuable to close? When we get down to 3 mega-bases? Not sure where it will end. Also not sure how much money is spent on BRAC investigations that could be spent more wisely, maybe it's all spent wisely...

[Dubya61]

Heh, agree with the last part, but does it really make sense to keep going over and over and over and over the same stuff/bases time and again? It's kind of like Apple doing the same thing with every one of their stores every year, even the ones that perform at 150% every quarter that will most likely never close? Or is TAFB not at that point yet, where they're truly invaluable? Maybe after the 20th round of BRAC (not sure what round they're on now, they were on the first or second round during my tenure there), TAFB will have made itself too valuable to close? When we get down to 3 mega-bases? Not sure where it will end. Also not sure how much money is spent on BRAC investigations that could be spent more wisely, maybe it's all spent wisely...

I suspect that there would be no need to go over and over it again, if the BRAC commission were to get what it recommended, but they don't and when they have to do it again, it's subjected to a very political (geographically) approval process. Consequently, every entity that wants to continue needs to say it again and again.

[TheTravellers]

Speaking of political approval processes...

House Rebuffs Pentagon On Defense Spending

"With the ending of two wars and diminishing budgets, the Pentagon had proposed retiring the U-2 and the A-10 Warthog close air support aircraft, taking 11 Navy cruisers out of the normal rotation for modernization and increasing out-of-pocket costs for housing and health care.

Republicans, even tea partyers (sic) who came to Congress demanding deep cuts in federal spending, and Democrats rejected the Pentagon budget, sparing the aircraft, ships and troop benefits."

I'm all for keeping jobs, but our defense budget is seriously, seriously out of control, has been for decades.

About the USA's 2010 defense budget:

Howard Steven Friedman: 5 Countries With the Highest Military Expenditure

" In fact, the United States spends more on its military than the total spent by the second largest (China), third largest (United Kingdom), fourth largest (France), fifth largest (Russia)... and fifteenth largest (Turkey) combined. "

[BrettM2]

I suspect that there would be no need to go over and over it again, if the BRAC commission were to get what it recommended, but they don't and when they have to do it again, it's subjected to a very political (geographically) approval process. Consequently, every entity that wants to continue needs to say it again and again.

Tinker has made itself so valuable to the maintenance/supply world I have a hard time believing it would be on the chopping block anytime soon. They went from five depots to three (closed Sacramento and Kelly). Most of the Kelly workload went to Tinker and some of the Sacramento load did too. Now it's the head complex and home of the 3-star in charge of the Air Force Sustainment Center.

With 3001 and the old GM plant as two of the biggest buildings in the DoD, that only helps their case: How much would it cost to build a massive maintenance facility in 2014? Surely far too much to justify shutting two of them down.

Honestly, I'd say Vance would be at the most risk in Oklahoma (not that the risk of closure is high, just that they are more at risk than the other two bases). Shephard in Wichita Falls has the same mission and could absorb their folks. Altus just landed additional duties for training and has an extremely high percentage of flyable days (which is why they've survived).

[LakeEffect]

Honestly, I'd say Vance would be at the most risk in Oklahoma (not that the risk of closure is high, just that they are more at risk than the other two bases). Shephard in Wichita Falls has the same mission and could absorb their folks. Altus just landed additional duties for training and has an extremely high percentage of flyable days (which is why they've survived).

Didn't Vance just add a squadron from Shephard during the last BRAC?

[BrettM2]

Didn't Vance just add a squadron from Shephard during the last BRAC?

Not sure. I couldn't find it online but I did see where the DoD proposed to send parts of Sheppard's training mission to Eglin in Florida. Not sure if it happened but it seems my observation was backward: Sheppard must be more at risk.

[Just the facts]

Another 2,000 civilian jobs could be coming to Tinker later, Sears said

Fine - but COULD is a pretty open ended word. But let's say it did happen, then pass Quality Jobs for those 2,000 jobs - NOT the jobs that had already been announced. Now if you think there was some back room deal with the Federal government in exchange for manipulating the military then the DOJ needs to open an investigation into that.

Personally, I find it shameful that the federal government would even be allowed to be exempted from local income taxes. I mean, of all the entities on Earth the one least eligible for income tax rebates in exchange for jobs should be the federal government.

[bombermwc]

Places like Altus and Vance do have some good things going for them compared to SOME other similar facilities in their world. Lots of open space around them. Vance probably has a better chance of surviving just because of its location for that vast open land in the middle of nowhere. Altus is darned close to Wichita Falls so the bases being so close to each other doesn't help their case. While Vance is more for training and Altus for being a traditional "base", their duties could very easily be combined. But the next question would be, do either of them have the land to support adding the others?....or that of another closed facility? Does Vance's runway have room to handle larger aircraft than the little trainers? Could Altus handle all the traffic the trainers would add?

Tinker could probably handle the larger fleet, but in no way would take over Vance's role. But Tinker is a depot....not really a "base" in the traditional sense. Yes, there are some small groups based here, but that's not the main purpose of the facility. The amount of in/out traffic would be a huge factor. Is the runway built to handle that much increased traffic? Would the base try to push more for exclusion zones if those fleets were added...killing the Mid-Del economy? There's a LOT to consider.