Spouse reaction to OKC....

[Doug Loudenback]

Waaait a minute, baaaby!

Okc's grid system is wholly logical ... even a girl (just kidding!) can figure it out and navigate without asking!

The prime crosshairs are Reno (east/west) and Santa Fe (north/south). That divides the city roughly into quadrants.

Over the whole scheme, each element of a quadrant is divided into single miles as far as east/west or north/south main roads are concerned. I.e., main east/west and north/south roads are a mile apart, either direction ... that's the primary basis for the expand grid in any direction (NW, NE, SW, SE) from the intersection of Reno and Santa Fe.

NW Streets: Santa Fe & Reno to infinity from the intersection of Reno & Santa Fe toward to the northwest

NE Streets: Santa Fe & Reno to infinity from the intersection of Reno & Santa Fe toward the northeast

SW Streets: Santa Fe & Reno to infinity from the intersection of Reno & Santa Fe toward the southwest

SE Streets: Santa Fe & Reno to infinity from the intersection of Reno & Santa Fe toward the southeast

Now, as a mere guy, I ask, "How can it get any simpler than that?" Or, if you don't know east/west (e.g. New York/California) or north/south (e.g., North Dakota/Texas), do you need "left turn/right turn" directions, to boot?

If so, drop in to your nearest convenience store as you're trying to navigate!

[mranderson]

Waaait a minute, baaaby!

Okc's grid system is wholly logical ... even a girl (just kidding!) can figure it out and navigate without asking!

The prime crosshairs are Reno (east/west) and Santa Fe (north/south). That divides the city roughly into quadrants.

Over the whole scheme, each element of a quadrant is divided into single miles as far as east/west or north/south main roads are concerned. I.e., main east/west and north/south roads are a mile apart, either direction ... that's the primary basis for the expand grid in any direction (NW, NE, SW, SE) from the intersection of Reno and Santa Fe.

NW Streets: Santa Fe & Reno to infinity from the intersection of Reno & Santa Fe toward to the northwest

NE Streets: Santa Fe & Reno to infinity from the intersection of Reno & Santa Fe toward the northeast

SW Streets: Santa Fe & Reno to infinity from the intersection of Reno & Santa Fe toward the southwest

SE Streets: Santa Fe & Reno to infinity from the intersection of Reno & Santa Fe toward the southeast

Now, as a mere guy, I ask, "How can it get any simpler than that?" Or, if you don't know east/west (e.g. New York/California) or north/south (e.g., North Dakota/Texas), do you need "left turn/right turn" directions, to boot?

If so, drop in to your nearest convenience store as you're trying to navigate!

Acutally, unit block north and south is Main.

[RussBraaten]

When I moved to Tulsa in the late 70's I was amazed at how easily it was to find addresses. Not only do the street numbers correlate to the N S E W grid but the streets are alphabetized. No city in the US has a system like that. The reason it could be done in Tulsa is because it is almost totally flat. If you know Tulsa, the only place the streets get weird is at the one small hill. I don't know when they designed Tulsa but it seems the first roads ran along the meridian lines and surveyors designed the streets. In most cities, the roads are designed by the old wagon trails or natural paths made as you traverse hills and gullies and rivers and streems. OKC is pretty close to the ease of Tulsa but I like the OKC methods more. You see I am not a type "A" person. I always feel like I am being controlled by some very anal retentive system.

You should try getting around Southern California. There are so many cities that are tangled around each other and streets often change names in each town and if the names are the same, the numbers aren't. You can drive down a straight road and enter city XYZ and the names and numbers change and then you hit town ABC and minutes later you are somehow back in town XYZ with changes all along the way. No streets have numbers on them so there is NO order to them at all. Every driver in California has this thick map book that is issued for every county and looks more like a surveyors map but it is the only way to find your way around... Before GPS.

Long winded again. I am driving myself nuts because I can't remember the name of the map company. hahahaha

_____________________________
edit
The map book is the Thomas Brothers map book <feeling loony>

[HOT ROD]

You got that right, our streets here in Seattle are terrible.

You'll be on a "major" street for a few miles, then it will end all of sudden without a sign indicating "thoroughfare/artery change" or much worse, the road will just end or turn residential then end. Or an artery in one part of the city will share the same name of a lesser street in another part of town but one moves n/s the other e/w sort of thing. Then the diagonal streets and the dead ends. very confusing if you dont have a navigator here.

Example, Denny Way is the north edge of Downtown Seattle and there it is a pretty major street. it runs for about 1.5 miles then moves up to Capitol Hill, where it turns into a residential area then "disappears". At no time is there an "artery turns" sign or something like that. Also there is the Avenue, Avenue N., Avenue S. business, in addition to NE XX street and so on. You really have to take some time or know someone here to get around. It took me years to get used to it, as here its about where you are.

That was the biggest issue I had when I moved here from OKC, where the major arteries run the length of the county and are spaced a mile apart - here in Seattle, the "major" street depends where you are, as there is NO thoroughfare here that runs the entire length aside from the two interstates (5 and 90).

I know OKC does have a few quirky streets in the inner city but it only impacts you if you are looking for something there. Its not like here, where you are just trying to get around without using the freeway (because it's always backed up because of poor urban planning) - it is impossible to go from S. Seattle to the North Seattle on an Artery without taking the freeway.

I say OKC's planning is some of the nation's best (and Im NOT alone in this opinion, most I know who have come to the city agree - its very easy to get around).

[jbrown84]

I think the only major artery that does anything like that here is Penn where it winds through Nichols Hills north of 63rd.

[metro]

Well, I'm not from here and I absolutely hated it when I first arrived back in Early April 1999. Matter of fact I pretty much hated it until about the last 2 years when I started noticing just how much better it's gotten since I've been here - coincidence? :wink

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going back to NC, the first chance I get, but I've decided that I will embrace my temporary home and promote it to others as best I can. It was actually kind of funny the first time found myself defending this place. For so long I had badmouthed it and now here I was sounding like a tourism ambassador for Oklahoma.

As was mentioned above, one of the things I missed first and most was the natural beauty. Not trying to beat up on Ok here, but the sides of our highways look better than most of the manicured acres in Ok. But Oklahoma has it's own kind of rustic beauty that you can't readily find in the southeast.

My friends and family's reactions have been mixed.

The only 5 things that really still bother me about Oklahoma (there's more but we're moving in the right direction with those) and that I feel certain will never get better, are the roads, the wind, and the slow drivers in the right lane, no place to get country ham biscuit or Eastern NC BBQ, and the lack of real trees and just overall natural beauty - bright, vivid, colors through Fall, spring and summer. Other than that, I've made some great friends, had some great food, enjoyed everchanging weather, had a lot of front end alignments err I mean have enjoyed the low cost of living.

I've lived here the overwhelming majority of my life and I have to say these are misconceptions that can be said of anywhere. No place is perfect nor will be. It's all personal preference. I might like the beach, but you may hate the beach. No one can say the ocean is better to live by. Especially as someone said, keep this global warming thing up, the coasts will be underwater. I've seen bad roads in every state I've been to (around 40 states), bad drivers, etc. I think a person only makes the problems they seem to have a stereotype about in the first place. After all you'll get what you're looking for (or in some cases not making an effort). If I move to say California, (which I've been to and find people very rude) I'd have the same generalization that Californian's are hard to really get to know and make lifelong friends, I'd disagree and say Oklahoman's are easier to make lifelong friends as most of mine are. I have them because I tried hard at it. No matter your origin or where your from, you have to try to make friends, etc. I agree about the Edmondite comment, it may be more superficial in most areas in Edmond since it's competing with the Jones'.

As far as the above comment with the roads never getting better, that's a lie. They get better all the time and aren't any worse than many other states. I do agree they need a lot of work, but that can be said of any state given the right area. Same thing with slow drivers, stereotype of anywhere. The only reason bigger metroplex's have "better" drivers is because there are so many people so you're forced to drive fast or get run over. This doesn't bother me as I like it, but that is the main reason bigger cities have "better drivers". OKC doesn't have the sheer population yet. There are plenty of places to get a Country Ham biscuit if you take the time to look and venture out. Check out most of the breakfast places. I used to live in Georgia near the SC/NC border and spent decent amount of time in the Carolina's so I know what a Ham Biscuit is and yes you can find them here. Get real people, this is Deep South regional item, this was not a staple food here in Oklahoma. You can find gravy just about any restaurant in Oklahoma but you have to look in Georgia or the Carolina's to find it anywhere. Although I know if I look hard enough, I'll find it. If I go to the N.E. I can find some clam chowder, etc. Geez people, you can't expect every state to be your favorite state. As far as manicured right of way's on highways, I'll agree with you on that one, we need definite improvement. Main reason is OK lacks the money. We don't have enough tax dollars or population to generate the extra tax dollars yet. I sure hope and know this will change. Just watch the new I-40 as it goes up. As far as NC BBQ ( I'm assuming your talking about vinegar based sauce and pork instead of beef). Although I'm not a big fan of chains, Rib Crib makes some mean Carolina BBQ with vinegar based sauce! I wish I had some right now. I think Van's Pig Stand also has some as well and probably other places.

Lack of real trees and wind? Last time I checked, they aren't plastic Christmas trees. Sorry we're not God, we can't change or geography and that's what makes us unique. As someone said, we're constantly ranked #1 in the nation for most diverse geography. You can go down to SE Oklahoma to the Talimena (sp?) Drive and see some real trees with bright vivid colors, etc. You can also go to Little Sahara or Beaver Dunes and be in a Desert in Oklahoma. I bet NC doesn't have a desert. You can go down to Lawton and be in the oldest mountain range in the world, or go to black mesa, caverns, red rock canyon, and many other diverse regions of Oklahoma as well. Case and point, Oklahoma is is unique place in geography just like North Carolina and everywhere else. Enjoy it while your here and make the most of it. Get out and explore! Things won't come to you, you've got to go to them!

[andy157]

Acutally, unit block north and south is Main.

Wrong Again

[Misty]

I vowed to never leave Texas again and here I am living back in OKC! Why? The people. I have the most amazing friends a person could ask for. Karried-I know how you feel. I'm not church going and also am shocked at the racist comments I hear. But I have also found a lot of like-minded people here. Granted, I have to meet A LOT of people to find one I click with, but as long as you seek out like minded people you can find them here. Another thing that's nice about living in OKC is that the cost of living is low and so you can afford to travel frequently to visit the places you enjoy and miss.

[Moondog]

I actually know someone who moved here, and automatically had to start taking antidepressants. And a friend of mine recently gave up his antidepressants, after moving away from OKC to Portland. (One would think moving from a sunny climate to a rainy climate would have the opposite effect, but not in his case.)

But I've also known people who moved here from California and other coastal or more scenic places who absolutely love Oklahoma. I think it just depends on each individual's perspective. (i.e. If a person comes here with their mind already made up about the place, then will be as sad or happy as they expected to be.)

[jbrown84]

I actually know someone who moved here, and automatically had to start taking antidepressants. And a friend of mine recently gave up his antidepressants, after moving away from OKC to Portland. (One would think moving from a sunny climate to a rainy climate would have the opposite effect, but not in his case.)

Coincidence.

[CCOKC]

I moved away last year and am back now(thank God). My husband has a short-term job in Boise and I was supposed to live there for 2 years. I absolutely hated it. I was expecting the Pacific Northwest with mountains and trees and green and instead it was the mountains were foothills and they chopped down all of the surrouding trees years ago. I did not realize I would be living in the dessert but there I was. I did not go in to the experience with a good attitude so I was miserable. I missed OKC so much and all of the excitement and new things I really wasn't willing to give Boise a chance. So, we are coming home a year earlier than expected. My kids finish school next week and we are going up tomorrow to start moving them back next week.

[windowphobe]

Sheridan's status as the line between north and south goes back to the very first days of the city, when rival townsite developers worked on opposite sides of the street (which back then was Clarke Street, later Grand Avenue). It is exactly for this reason that north-south streets through downtown used to "jog" sideways across Sheridan.

There are many irregularities in the OKC grid. (Weirdest, at least to me: south of about SW 25th, there are no 1700 to 2000 blocks on any east-west street. Just east of Pennsylvania is the 1600 block; just west is 2100.)

Tulsa, incidentally, is pretty consistent throughout: 10 blocks per mile north/south (11th, 21st, 31st and so on); 16 blocks per mile east/west (Sheridan is 6500, Memorial 8100, Mingo 9700, Garnett 11300). Although there's one quirk in Tulsa: if you're on a north-south avenue, you don't change blocks until you hit an east-west street. You go south on, say, Marion from 61st, and you stay in the 6100 block all the way to 63rd, because 62nd never intersects Marion. (This is from memory; corrections, if appropriate, will be appreciated.)

[Jen at Airports]

My husband is from California. He grew up in the Bay Area. He's lived here since he was 17 and he's 41 now. It was a long, hard adjustment. He still misses his native home and speaks often of his memories. He wants to give our soon-to-be-born daughter the middle name of Shasta or Lassen - which are mountains in northern California of which he has fond memories. Having said that, he loves Oklahoma now and realizes that the California he once knew is no more. He has worked hard to carve out his own niche in terms of the haunts he likes and frequents. He took a school bus through champagne vineyards as a kid, but now, says Oklahoma has much better wine than California. There are so many things he's discovered here to love and it's made me appreciate this place very much. He always talks about the night sky and how from our humble home we have a million dollar view b/c we're not polluted and noisy. Hope this helps.

[MsProudSooner]

Sheridan's status as the line between north and south goes back to the very first days of the city, when rival townsite developers worked on opposite sides of the street (which back then was Clarke Street, later Grand Avenue). It is exactly for this reason that north-south streets through downtown used to "jog" sideways across Sheridan.

There are many irregularities in the OKC grid. (Weirdest, at least to me: south of about SW 25th, there are no 1700 to 2000 blocks on any east-west street. Just east of Pennsylvania is the 1600 block; just west is 2100.)

Tulsa, incidentally, is pretty consistent throughout: 10 blocks per mile north/south (11th, 21st, 31st and so on); 16 blocks per mile east/west (Sheridan is 6500, Memorial 8100, Mingo 9700, Garnett 11300). Although there's one quirk in Tulsa: if you're on a north-south avenue, you don't change blocks until you hit an east-west street. You go south on, say, Marion from 61st, and you stay in the 6100 block all the way to 63rd, because 62nd never intersects Marion. (This is from memory; corrections, if appropriate, will be appreciated.)

The North-South streets in Tulsa with names are fairly easy because they are alphabetical. However, at some point they must have decided that they ran out of names because you will find yourself at the intersection of 41st and 129th. I love the alphabetical concept for the named streets, but I wish Tulsa had used the NW, NE, SW, SE quadrant system for their numbered streets.

[windowphobe]

The Tulsa grid is spreading. Two years ago I was driving home from a road trip and encountered, at the western edge of Creek County, a section-line road designated, per its sign, S. 545th W. Ave.

Applying the 16-block rule, this is 34 miles west of downtown Tulsa.

[jpeaceokc]

Well, ok, but I think you have this backwards. We determine our block numbers from the street numbers. There is a quirk in OKC's system however. The north-south block numbering starts at Sheridan. Going northward, the unit block is between Sheridan and Main, then the 100's between Main and Park (originally 1st street), the 200's between Park (1st) and Kerr (originally 2nd), etc. Continuing the pattern, for example, the block north of 23rd is the 2400 block, etc..

This deserves to be a thread of its own. I moved back to Oklahoma in 1994. For the most recent 16 years, I had been living in Salt Lake City. I found Oklahoma City's odd method of relating house numbers to street number to be very hard to understand at first. My property has two houses, one of them faces onto McKinley, and its number is 2110. but is is south of NW 21st, and to this day it seems to me that its number should be 2010. Now I know why its clunky. I'm sure it made sense in its time, for some obscure reason.

In Salt Lake City, everything is numbered on a grid centered on Temple Square. Four blocks east of Temple Square the street is 400 East. Four blocks south of Temple Square you are on 400 South. If you lived right on the corner of 400 East and 400 South, your address would be 400 East 400 South, SLC, Utah.

It was very easy to find addresses there.

But Oklahoma City has better chicken fried steaks and MUCH better barbecue. In fact, I can't think of a decent place to get barbecue in Salt Lake City.

[rugbybrado]

, industrial suburbs in the south,

Huh?

I wouldnt see how any see how moore, westmoore, norman, or noble would be that industrial.

Maybe you should learn to drive before you start talking.