Bishop McGuinness Issues

[Midtowner]

From NonDoc
https://nondoc.com/2017/05/30/pr-bub...cguinness-pop/

In summary, the writer, an alumna of McGuinness details her experiences over the last few years. In 2012, as was reported on the Lost Ogle, a Cardinal came to speak at the school and imparted the Catholic teaching to be compassionate to immigrants. The students actually challenged the Cardinal with Alex Jones/Bill O'Reilly talking points and were applauded by the student body.

In 2015, after the SAE incident--many McGuinness alumni joined SAE at the time--the student body's thoughts and prayers were with the young men involved in the racist chant. More were concerned with the harm which might befall SAE than with what actually happened there.

And of course, the recent Hitler quotes and the school's reaction.

Why aren't Heritage and Casady having similar issues? Is McGuinness the private school for monied white trash now? I attended there for three years and this was not my experience at all.

[HangryHippo]

From NonDoc
https://nondoc.com/2017/05/30/pr-bub...cguinness-pop/

In summary, the writer, an alumna of McGuinness details her experiences over the last few years. In 2012, as was reported on the Lost Ogle, a Cardinal came to speak at the school and imparted the Catholic teaching to be compassionate to immigrants. The students actually challenged the Cardinal with Alex Jones/Bill O'Reilly talking points and were applauded by the student body.

In 2015, after the SAE incident--many McGuinness alumni joined SAE at the time--the student body's thoughts and prayers were with the young men involved in the racist chant. More were concerned with the harm which might befall SAE than with what actually happened there.

And of course, the recent Hitler quotes and the school's reaction.

Why aren't Heritage and Casady having similar issues? Is McGuinness the private school for monied white trash now? I attended there for three years and this was not my experience at all.

Based on some of my experiences, it's been the private school of monied white trash for years.

[Pete]

I'd say one obvious difference is the Catholic influence at McGuinness which the others don't have.

Historically, Catholic private schools have been for all classes of people and usually skewed more to the lower income families. But that has really changed at McGuinness, which is obvious from the multi-million dollar upgrades to all the facilities. That money is coming from somewhere.

So, you have a religion that has always been linked to humble immigrants somewhat clashing with the ultra right-wing political stance of many monied Oklahomans, which is what I think we've been seeing.

[Midtowner]

It wasn't like that when I attended in the mid 90s is what I started to write just now. But honestly, it's been that way since I was there and probably before. I don't recall the student body being racist at all though as it seems to be the case now. Heck, this gentleman:
https://ballotpedia.org/Bernard_Jones
was our class president I believe the entire time I was there. Maybe it's just a shift in what privilege means and says these days and the high school is just a solid barometer of changing attitudes?

[barrettd]

I'd say one obvious difference is the Catholic influence at McGuinness which the others don't have.

Historically, Catholic private schools have been for all classes of people and usually skewed more to the lower income families. But that has really changed at McGuinness, which is obvious from the multi-million dollar upgrades to all the facilities. That money is coming from somewhere.

So, you have a religion that has always been linked to humble immigrants somewhat clashing with the ultra right-wing political stance of many monied Oklahomans, which is what I think we've been seeing.

I would suggest a lot of the money influx has been a result of the Irish winning a heckuva lot more at sports. Seems, at least in Oklahoma, success in athletics drives fundraising. When I was in school there (88-92), we won one major championship (basketball in 88). Since then, the football and basketball teams have been wildly successful, and that leads to people giving money, in my opinion.

There were folks from all income levels when I attended, and I still think that's the case. We've had children at Casady and McGuinness, and each school has its own set of issues. Either still provides a much better college prep education than any OKC public school. We live in the district for John Marshall, and I would home school my child before sending them there.

[Midtowner]

Either still provides a much better college prep education than any OKC public school.

If you still have kids in school, I'd urge you to look into OKC's charter school scene. There are some which provide an arguably better college prep education than any of the local private schools. Where I think places like McGuinness and Casady have a leg up on the charters is in networking. If they want to rush the top fraternities and sororities at OU or OSU, attending a private school certainly gives one a leg up.

[barrettd]

If you still have kids in school, I'd urge you to look into OKC's charter school scene. There are some which provide an arguably better college prep education than any of the local private schools. Where I think places like McGuinness and Casady have a leg up on the charters is in networking. If they want to rush the top fraternities and sororities at OU or OSU, attending a private school certainly gives one a leg up.

We have a son at Belle Isle charter school, and I still don't think it's as good an education as Casady was for our children. I'm sure it would be fairly easy to compare things like National Merit Scholars produced by the area high schools, I don't have the energy to do it. I've seen, firsthand, the product of private schools versus public and charter schools, and I would still choose private schools, given the opportunity. I didn't rush a fraternity, nor do I have a vast network from going to private school, but I learned lessons during my private school years that still benefit me on a daily basis in terms of dealing with people, deadlines, managing work loads, etc. Not to say those can't be learned anywhere else, but I wouldn't dismiss private schools' benefits as being limited to networking and college greek memberships.

[chuck5815]

You really have to commend the author. Most adults don't possess the courage to publish that sort of piece. It would be really interesting if the Oklahoman would run a follow-up. But I'm sure the editors/ownership are a bit too scared of the BMCHS alumni base. I know I'd be. Some powerful folks in that club.

[Pete]

You really have to commend the author. Most adults don't possess the courage to publish that sort of piece. It would be really interesting if the Oklahoman would run a follow-up. But I'm sure the editors/ownership are a bit too scared of the BMCHS alumni base. I know I'd be. Some powerful folks in that club.

The story in the Oklahoman was the problem in the first place, as they served as PR for the school and completely covered up the tension and tone of what students described as uncomfortable and unpleasant.

Thank goodness there are now other sources of news in this town, which is the only reason this story is coming out.

The Oklahoman's primary purpose is to serve as the public relations arm of the rich and powerful and those who pay their salaries through advertising. And if anything, this has only become more extreme as they continue to be squeezed the financial realities of the fading newspaper biz.

[stlokc]

Casady alumnus here. I think it's a little lightweight to bring up something like the OU Greek system rush process as a primary advantage to a private school. I am a firm believer that it's up to the child - and the parent - to take advantage of whatever situation they are in to get the best education. I knew someone from John Marshall that went to Harvard, so it can be done.
I do think the advantage to a strong private school is that by and large, the peer pressure is "upward" as opposed to "downward." In my experience anyway, the cool thing was to get into the best colleges, to get the best grades, etc. Sure there were outliers, but we graduated having been given the tools to compete anywhere in life. If that's OU, fine, but if it's a carefully researched small school in New England that's the best fit, you had the tools to do that.
As for McGuinness, I had a number of friends there and it's a great school. The fact that the debate is happening and the original author of the article is so well-spoken, is testament to that.

[GaryOKC6]

I also think that McGuiness is a great school. I have my last child in Bishop John Carroll and she will go to McGuiness after that as did my other children. Not just for the quality of education but because it is a Catholic Education. We are a Catholic family and it is important that my children continue to learn about their faith.

[Midtowner]

We have a son at Belle Isle charter school, and I still don't think it's as good an education as Casady was for our children. I'm sure it would be fairly easy to compare things like National Merit Scholars produced by the area high schools, I don't have the energy to do it. I've seen, firsthand, the product of private schools versus public and charter schools, and I would still choose private schools, given the opportunity. I didn't rush a fraternity, nor do I have a vast network from going to private school, but I learned lessons during my private school years that still benefit me on a daily basis in terms of dealing with people, deadlines, managing work loads, etc. Not to say those can't be learned anywhere else, but I wouldn't dismiss private schools' benefits as being limited to networking and college greek memberships.

It's tough to make an apples to apples comparison because private schools aren't subject to the same end of year tests and rankings that public schools submit to. Anecdotally, I attended McGuinness around the same time you did, but transferred my Senior year to Edmond North because at the time, North had better academic opportunities. They had AP programs, McGuinness only offered those as independent study at the time and they had an orchestra, which McGuinness did not (and still does not). I was also able to enroll in classes at UCO concurrently.

There are certainly public schools like http://www.hardingcharterprep.org/ which are going to offer the academics of a Casady or Heritage, who have the National Merit Scholars, etc., without subjecting the students to the toxic culture McGuinness has. I don't know a thing about Casady or Heritage except that I do know a few faculty members at Casady who would never put up with the crap discussed in the story about McGuinness.

[Midtowner]

I also think that McGuiness is a great school. I have my last child in Bishop John Carroll and she will go to McGuiness after that as did my other children. Not just for the quality of education but because it is a Catholic Education. We are a Catholic family and it is important that my children continue to learn about their faith.

I will say that I did value the Catholic Education. I found the Creed class taught at the time by a very impressive individual (Thomas) to be extremely enlightening. I found the Prayer and Worship class less so, filling up a notebook with BS "prayers" was something I still find questionable and tedious 20+ years later (but Sr. Sanchez was great).

[barrettd]

It's tough to make an apples to apples comparison because private schools aren't subject to the same end of year tests and rankings that public schools submit to. Anecdotally, I attended McGuinness around the same time you did, but transferred my Senior year to Edmond North because at the time, North had better academic opportunities. They had AP programs, McGuinness only offered those as independent study at the time and they had an orchestra, which McGuinness did not (and still does not). I was also able to enroll in classes at UCO concurrently.

There are certainly public schools like http://www.hardingcharterprep.org/ which are going to offer the academics of a Casady or Heritage, who have the National Merit Scholars, etc., without subjecting the students to the toxic culture McGuinness has. I don't know a thing about Casady or Heritage except that I do know a few faculty members at Casady who would never put up with the crap discussed in the story about McGuinness.

I don't think McGuinness stands alone as having a "toxic culture", not that I agree with that particular assessment of the culture there. Casady faculty have to deal with an awful lot of "crap" that has no bearing on their ability to educate and prepare students.

Every school has its issues, and I feel like sending my kids to McGuinness is still the right choice. Our family is not wealthy, and our kids fit in better with the families attending McGuinness. At Casady, we were the poor people. That stuff has an effect on students, and I feel like we just belong more at McGuinness. Nothing against the folks at Casady, it's just a different environment.

Ultimately, the students are responsible for making the best of their situation and environment. McGuinness could do more to make their students socially responsible, but the same could be said for every school in the state. If anyone bothered to investigate the other private schools, they would find plenty of issues to be had. Maybe the other schools just do a better job at keeping their issues private.

[7NCSOONER]

www.casady.org


CLASS OF 2017 HIGHLIGHTS
Casady School has much to celebrate about the Class of 2017:

100% matriculation to 46 different colleges and universities
100% admitted into a top choice college
98% admitted into two or more colleges (of students who applied to multiple colleges)
83% overall acceptance rate
267 college acceptances to 114 different colleges and universities (111 of which are Barron’s indexed and approved colleges/universities for quality and excellence)
78% received a scholarship
$9,798,648 offered in total scholarships
62% will matriculate out-of-state
46% plan to pursue a STEM-related degree
40% scored 30 or above on the ACT
15 will attend public university honors colleges
7 plan to participate in 7 different intercollegiate sports (baseball, basketball, field hockey, football, soccer, track, volleyball)
6 National Merit Finalists
1 National Merit Scholar
1 National Merit Boeing Scholarship
Casady's mission to develop excellence, confidence, and integrity in students and prepare them with the skills and knowledge that serve as the foundation for success is evident in each of the members of the senior class as they embark on their journey. College selections include Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, Barnard College at Columbia University, Vanderbilt, Washington University, University of Southern California, Cornell, Middlebury College, University of California at Berkeley, and 36 more colleges and universities.

[barrettd]

I will say that I did value the Catholic Education. I found the Creed class taught at the time by a very impressive individual (Thomas) to be extremely enlightening. I found the Prayer and Worship class less so, filling up a notebook with BS "prayers" was something I still find questionable and tedious 20+ years later (but Sr. Sanchez was great).

Mr. Thomas was, by far, my favorite teacher. As of last year, Sister Sanchez was still at McGuinness, though I never had her class. I'm not Catholic, but I did appreciate learning about Catholicism, and Thomas was great because he challenged us when we questioned the church's teachings. It was more than a theology class to me, if that makes any sense.

[bombermwc]

Hey, these problems aren't unique to McGuiness. Every school has issues, it just depends on what those issues are. Statistically speaking, when you're in a lower income area, you dont USUALLY have to worry about race issues being a problem, but those schools have parental involvement issues as well as usually having district funding problems. When you go to higher income areas, people dont have to worry about putting food on the table, so some other issue comes up (because we all have to have SOMETHING to b*tch about...it's human nature). The problems that the kids in McGuiness/Cassady/Heritage Hall, etc deal with are very different, but they have them. And each class of students brings something different as well. Just because the culture of a school was a particular way at one time, does not mean that it will stay that way. Especially in a school that is pushing to grow its population (like McGuiness). Growing 2 classes turned it from a smaller "family" in to a regular school, losing that identity. It now has a different identity.

[dankrutka]

Statistically speaking, when you're in a lower income area, you dont USUALLY have to worry about race issues being a problem, but those schools have parental involvement issues as well as usually having district funding problems.

Not to derail the discussion, but wuuuuttttt? OKCPS has been dealing with race issues that are systemic to their schools because they (I don't have the article in front of me) were suspending students of color at the highest rates in the nation that were completely disporportionate. Besides the fact that funding issues and district/residential segregation (often determined by those with power drawing the lines to keep students of color separated or fighting housing for lower incomes) are often also racial/socioeconomic issues, the state accountability systems (A-F, NCLB, RTTP, ESSA) all end up narrowing curriculum/instruction for students of color and those in poverty with tests that are culturally biased... Anyway, we don't need to get into all these points as they each deserve discussion, but it's not hard to make the argument that race issues are the top school problem in lower income areas.

[Richard at Remax]

Casady alumnus here. I think it's a little lightweight to bring up something like the OU Greek system rush process as a primary advantage to a private school. I am a firm believer that it's up to the child - and the parent - to take advantage of whatever situation they are in to get the best education. I knew someone from John Marshall that went to Harvard, so it can be done.
I do think the advantage to a strong private school is that by and large, the peer pressure is "upward" as opposed to "downward." In my experience anyway, the cool thing was to get into the best colleges, to get the best grades, etc. Sure there were outliers, but we graduated having been given the tools to compete anywhere in life. If that's OU, fine, but if it's a carefully researched small school in New England that's the best fit, you had the tools to do that.
As for McGuinness, I had a number of friends there and it's a great school. The fact that the debate is happening and the original author of the article is so well-spoken, is testament to that.

Heritage Hall alum here. I agree with the upward peer pressure. It was a different scene from the Edmond public school I went to before transferring, which was all about cliques and sports. Heritage was unique like McGuinness in which it has all sorts of income levels because of the scholarships that were offered. Remarkably, everyone was pretty much friends with everyone in our small class of 62. Granted this was before the social media explosion. I can't imagine going to high school now with all that nonsense.

[OKCretro]

every school has issues,

look at what happened at the high school in denver just this week.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/us/den...rnd/index.html