2017 GoBond Package News

[DowntownMan]

Doesn't seem like much widening to take place. More resurfacing

I'm disappointed to not see 150th between MacArthur and council to be included. Especially 150th between MacArthur and Rockwell with it being such bad shape and so many new homes being allowed to be built in the area.

Unless I missed it somewhere in therr

[bradh]

It's one of the worst stretches of roads in the metro, I live off it I know, but there is more bang for the buck elsewhere around town. The drilling activity just west of Rockwell just murdered 150th up there

[SoonerDave]

They aren't.

The bonds are merely borrowing money against future tax streams, which are paid off with those revenues over time.

Ok, I think I was misinterpreting the discussion of estimates of 16-19 mil levies on $150K assessments. Presuming other millages are expiring if the plan is for them not to increase?

Only reason this is an issue for me is that I live a bit south of 89th in Cleveland County within OKC, but within the Moore school district. As a result, we're in one of those property tax twilight zones that are pretty steep already. I'm a little snakebit after a nearly 10% increase just this year....

[bombermwc]

Finally some 240 frontage road work....and at least its in one of the really bad areas this time. Looks like they're working from west to east.

I'm glad to see some of the areas they list in the east, but this has VERY LITTLE east side work on the table, but in the road surveys, the east was disproportion ally bad. Very frustrating.

The traffic studies are terrible though....absolutely terrible. One of them is a light on Sooner at a Walmart Neighborhood market. It's a light with no other lights to interact with! But yet the 240/Sooner lights that NEED to be connected, still get ignored!!!!!!

[TheTravellers]

Finally some 240 frontage road work....and at least its in one of the really bad areas this time. Looks like they're working from west to east.

I'm glad to see some of the areas they list in the east, but this has VERY LITTLE east side work on the table, but in the road surveys, the east was disproportion ally bad. Very frustrating.

The traffic studies are terrible though....absolutely terrible. One of them is a light on Sooner at a Walmart Neighborhood market. It's a light with no other lights to interact with! But yet the 240/Sooner lights that NEED to be connected, still get ignored!!!!!!

I've tried to get OKC to fix traffic light timing at multiple intersections before, and I either get ignored or "Everything's working as designed" (yeah, but your design sucks, so maybe you should look at and fix the poor design), good luck...

[shawnw]

At one of the public meetings for the GO bond I asked what happened to the expensive light timing software we bought and two things were pointed out to me...

1) The city-wide wifi implemented for law enforcement is gone (they went to a Verizon solution) so there's no network infrastructure to use
2) The person championing that effort moved to a different department

[pw405]

The city recently made a post on the (somewhat) new social networking app Nextdoor. I am truly concerned that the average voter is SOOOOO put off with any form of "government" in OK right now, that many of the bond packages will not pass. I mean, most of the comments on the post indicate just how truly stupid many people are. Really, really sad. I'll take some excerpts if anybody is interested.

[Pete]

The city recently made a post on the (somewhat) new social networking app Nextdoor. I am truly concerned that the average voter is SOOOOO put off with any form of "government" in OK right now, that many of the bond packages will not pass. I mean, most of the comments on the post indicate just how truly stupid many people are. Really, really sad. I'll take some excerpts if anybody is interested.

Yes, would like to see the post and comments but please redact any names before posting.

Thanks.

[David]

Yeeeeah, the comments on the Nextdoor post are not encouraging.

[shawnw]

Many of those folks either probably don't vote (thus their lack of understanding of the processes) or won't take the time/won't remember to do so. If it were worth their time to actually go vote it would be equally worth their time to have a fundamental understanding of the way cities fund these kinds of programs.

[LocoAko]

Many of those folks either probably don't vote (thus their lack of understanding of the processes) or won't take the time/won't remember to do so. If it were worth their time to actually go vote it would be equally worth their time to have a fundamental understanding of the way cities fund these kinds of programs.

I dunno. I haven't seen the posts in question (though I've seen equally depressing posts about civic-related issues on Facebook posts, etc), but I feel like people tuned in on Nextdoor are at least somewhat more engaged and therefore likely to vote. :shrug:

[Montreal]

Attachment 13887

This is pretty indicative. There's a poor understanding on what is the responsibility of the city govt, the responsibility of the state govt, and what the purpose of the GO Bond is. To say trust is low is an understatement.

Also people latched onto the "no raising taxes" claim and countered with the permanent 1/4 cent sales tax increase.

Edit: not sure if the image attached properly. Let me know if there's a better way to upload it.

[shawnw]

Appears to not be attached correctly

[LakeEffect]

At one of the public meetings for the GO bond I asked what happened to the expensive light timing software we bought and two things were pointed out to me...

1) The city-wide wifi implemented for law enforcement is gone (they went to a Verizon solution) so there's no network infrastructure to use
2) The person championing that effort moved to a different department

The person that really started IT innovation at the City left around 2007, I think. He went to the private sector...

[LakeEffect]

I dunno. I haven't seen the posts in question (though I've seen equally depressing posts about civic-related issues on Facebook posts, etc), but I feel like people tuned in on Nextdoor are at least somewhat more engaged and therefore likely to vote. :shrug:

I felt that NextDoor was was that way in the beginning, but it's devolved into complaint-central over the past 12-18 months. I no longer find it too useful, so for GO Bond and sales tax purposes, I take it less seriously.

[emtefury]

I saw the nextdoor posts where people were mixing up the responsibility of state government vs city government. Some were stating that because of the recent state budget why should they vote for the bond. I was going post about the difference between the two governments and how the city has not part in the state government budget and such, but I figured I just to better leave it alone.

[SoonerDave]

Not intending to derail from the road discussion, but is the GoBond package the vehicle for funding our improvements to the ASA Softball stadium for the WCWS? I remember reading from a while back that the next phase of major upgrades promised were going to be part of a bond election sometime in late 2017, and I wasn't sure if those were part of this package. This is A Big Deal for OKC and we surely need to make sure it gets funded...

[Laramie]

New, improvements & renovations will add to the badly needed streets, sidewalks, bridges & infrastructure. Includes many of the original MAPS projects that will need to be upgraded since the 1993 original initiative to elevate OKC to big league city status.

The Hall of Fame Stadium complex will be expanded & renovated to keep the tournament here until 2035 [see PROPOSITION NO. 5. (PARKS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES) B. 4.].

PROPOSITION NO. 1 (STREETS) - $490,560,000
PROPOSITION NO. 2 (BRIDGES) - $26,795,000
PROPOSITION NO. 3 (TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEM) - $27,585,000
PROPOSITION NO. 4 (DRAINAGE CONTROL SYSTEM) - $62,170,000
PROPOSITION NO. 5 (PARKS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES) - $137,720,000

8. Bricktown Ball Park - $4,625,000
B. New Parks, Parklands and Recreational Facilities
4. Lincoln Park- Softball Hall of Fame Stadium improvements - $27,500,000

PROPOSITION NO. 7 (DOWNTOWN CITY ARENA) - $8,865,000
PROPOSITION NO. 8 (CIVIC CENTER COMPLEX) - $20,185,000
PROPOSITION NO. 10 (TRANSIT) - $20,395,000
PROPOSITION NO. 11 (ECONOMIC AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT) - $60,000,000
PROPOSITION NO. 12 (FIRE) - $45,350,00
PROPOSITION NO. 13 (POLICE) - $30,840,000

[pw405]

New, improvements & renovations will add to the badly needed streets, sidewalks, bridges & infrastructure. Includes many of the original MAPS projects that will need to be upgraded since the 1993 original initiative to elevate OKC to big league city status.

The Hall of Fame Stadium complex will be expanded & renovated to keep the tournament here until 2035 [see PROPOSITION NO. 5. (PARKS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES) B. 4.].

PROPOSITION NO. 1 (STREETS) - $490,560,000
PROPOSITION NO. 2 (BRIDGES) - $26,795,000
PROPOSITION NO. 3 (TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEM) - $27,585,000
PROPOSITION NO. 4 (DRAINAGE CONTROL SYSTEM) - $62,170,000
PROPOSITION NO. 5 (PARKS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES) - $137,720,000

8. Bricktown Ball Park - $4,625,000
B. New Parks, Parklands and Recreational Facilities
4. Lincoln Park- Softball Hall of Fame Stadium improvements - $27,500,000

PROPOSITION NO. 7 (DOWNTOWN CITY ARENA) - $8,865,000
PROPOSITION NO. 8 (CIVIC CENTER COMPLEX) - $20,185,000
PROPOSITION NO. 10 (TRANSIT) - $20,395,000
PROPOSITION NO. 11 (ECONOMIC AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT) - $60,000,000
PROPOSITION NO. 12 (FIRE) - $45,350,00
PROPOSITION NO. 13 (POLICE) - $30,840,000

Just to make sure I understand completely, the two tax questions (permanent 1/4 and temporary 3/4 %) are separate and can be voted on in any combination right?

Personally, I'm very likely voting YES for everything! The only one's I'm not sold on are the economic incentive, as past funds haven't always been good for long term gains (Chesapeake as an example), and the police... maybe... just maybe the police don't need militarized equipment for their job? I could be wrong... Are there any positive outcomes from prior city economic incentive packages?

[pw405]

Yes, would like to see the post and comments but please redact any names before posting.

Thanks.

Here are the comments, please note... some are not made in their entirety, but I took the "thesis" of each comment while trying to eliminate the rambling nonsense as much as possible. Well, that is... if you don't count the majority of comments as rambling nonsense.

So the city leaders and OKC Chamber decided that streets, trails and sidewalks were more important that retaining good teachers.

Nuts.... the only solution they can come up with is making taxes higher. We would be one of the highest taxes in the nation at that point. Even though we are already up there. Doesn't make sense to me as Oklahomans on average make $15 a hour. That is one of the lowest in the nation. They need to stop over spending on crap and alicate the funds to the stuff that helps our residents like teacher pay etc. I have a felling this "temporary" sales tax is going to be like the turnpike "promise" and end up permanent.

Roads are pretty awesome....except our roads continually fall apart and need repair. Now, I don't know if this is because our state uses sub-standard materials or there is some collusion with the DOT to make sure their budget isn't reduced, but it seems our surrounding states can build roads that last longer than a year. It's quite the frustrating conundrum. Again, I like roads and we need some good ones. I think I'd be hard-pressed to vote for several hundred million to simply replace crap with more crap.

The city currently brings in $36 million MONTHLY on sales tax alone. Perhaps the city government should live within its means and prioritize actual "needs" as opposed to "wants."

The Government cant even get ODOT to keep our highways clear of debris. Furthermore, We have a shortage of police presence, and emergency services. I'm tired for paying for this corruption, and I'm sure many others are too. Where is the money going, and why are we about the only state that is in this poor of shape? I have never seen anything like it.

I have to agree with many of the statements made throughout this thread. Many of the roads around our area are indeed in poor condition, and with all of the construction, they will only get worse. I thought the "Lottery" was sold as the "answer" to our school funding problems, what is happening to all of the money that was supposed to bring in?

NAME, you are confused. Bonds are taxes that they collect from taxpayers so that the government can borrow money to pay for future expenses. Maybe the city could spend less on sidewalks, trails in areas no sane person would dare to go or wasting money away on a bricktown only used by a few.
We should vote no on all bonds and all tax increases until the government learns to spend the money appropriately. We also dont need tire drivent street cars. They look like street cars but they are just more unneeded public transit.

OKC Public schools has over 80K illegals in the system. They need to be deported not schooled. Teachers have no performance expectations and dont work the entire year. Until they consolidate school districts and get rid of so many administrators I say vote no at every opportunity.

[LocoAko]

Thanks for the evening dose of misanthropy.

[pw405]

For what it is worth, I pointed out quite a few times what the differences between state and city gov are. I also gave practical examples and refrained from any personal insults. Often, I feel that knowledge is the best defense against ignorance. Thanks to OKCTalk's own Pete for being an amazing example of how to address morons on the internet without attacking them. Let's start a business Pete! We'll coach students on how to address dumb people on the internet! Maybe get a little of that economic incentive flowing towards our wallet's!

[pw405]

Thanks for the evening dose of misanthropy.

Sad, I know. The best thing we can do is encourage everybody we know to vote YES on all the bonds at least. Encourage the young people you know to register to vote. You would be shocked at how many 30's somethings and younger aren't even registered!

[Laramie]

Again, we have to be ambassadors for OKC on these issues.

Examples pw405 cited about the roles of federal, state, city & county governments and their various departments which include ODOT'S (Oklahoma Department of Transportation) to the state; safety (police & fire) as it relates to the city/county & the perspective of how all this intertwines is the message voters need to know.

It's a ball of confusion. Voters get frustrated, eventually this leads to a 'NO' vote because they don't understand. We have to address these issues with patience because of voter empathy & apathy.

Bottom line; this is a PACKAGE (GoBonds), you will not be able to pick & choose what you want vs. what you don't want passed. It's similar to MAPS, all or nothing.

[SoonerDave]

Keep in mind, too, that the people posting on those threads represent a statistically meaningless molecule of the broader voting populace. It's an unfortunate fact that most people don't understand how city governance (over things like streets and bridges) is an entirely different animal than state governance (over things like schools, etc). And we also have to recognize that, amid the confusion, there are people there with legit concerns - folks trying to balance their budgets and just see more taxes as something that takes money out of their pockets. I do think we're seeing the collateral damage of the lottery's failure to live up to promises (whether real or imagined); it has created a stigma attached to anything relating to education funding in this state by virtue of the way it was sold. That a bit of math could readily demonstrate it couldn't possibly generate the revenue that was being tossed around was *really* frustrating - but that's a discussion for different thread.

I do think, however, the real risk right now is a general "anti-whatever-is-going-on-now/government mistrust"
vibe going on that could present an obstacle to GoBond that might not otherwise be there. I'll surely be supporting this.