Odot

[Plutonic Panda]

PS, the stretch from of I-35 in Edmond is under study as well. Similarly, they are looking at one way service road conversions and a possible extension of the service roads to at least Covell(maybe Waterloo I can't remember). Edmond paid for the study with a surplus of tax revenue a couple years back.

I have nothing about this study however I believe it would be much less complex than the one the stretch in the south metro. Most of the infrastructure in place would only have to be slightly realigned with the stretch between Danforth and Second St. being the exception as that portion will be a little more complex. Danforth bridge needs to be reconstructed and Second St. in Edmond needs to be expanded to six lanes which is my understanding they are eying. The only other six lane expansion of an arterial road I know of being considered in the entire state is Classen St. in Norman. I know ODOT is adding some lanes to Douglas as part of the interchange reconstruction project there.

ODOT also has plans to widen and completely reconstruct I-35 to six lanes from 2nd St. in Edmond to SH-51 in Stillwater. It isn't funded, but I was hoping they would at least add the widening of I-35 from 2nd St. to Waterloo to the 8 year plan update this year. In all honesty I was only expecting the ROW or utility portion of that small project to be added not the actual construction of the widening, but with the current budget problems, I don't even see that in far I'm worried some projects might fall off.

ODOT is going to be facing some serious problems due to sprawl in the coming years and it will be made much worse with the fact that they are facing budget cuts when they should be adding billions to their measley budget. Just to name a couple you need to add several ramps in North Edmond. East I-40 is a joke in the metro. Though they current have plans to widen and reconstruct it, that could get pushed back. I-44 in South OKC is becoming more congested. I-44 Belle Isle bridge is in pretty dire need for replacement. New freeway loops are becoming more and more need around Norman and Edmond.

If anyone has been paying attention, the OTA recently changed the plan for the EOC Loop connection at I-40 to allow for the freeway to completely pass over I-40 to continue south for 100 feet or so. This shows me they intend on connecting to I-35 hopefully sooner rather than later. Though a loop in Northeast Edmond is decades away from being needed, I do wish they would plan for that as well.

ODOT has a lot to tackle in just the OKC metro and that doesn't include the other billions of dollars needed for the the Tulsa and Lawton metros.

[Robert_M]

I will be keeping my eye on this project. I'd love to see I-35 expanded to 10 lanes from DTOKC to Norman which would allow that freeway to not have to be touched for another 50+ years.

They said in an article in the Oklahoman they said widening isn't a viable option but the rest of your ideas would be great.

http://www.oklahoman.com/public-inpu...rticle/5546581

[Plutonic Panda]

I read that and it is complete BS to be honest. At least for the reasons they gave. Now in terms of costs, yes, I would rather see the money go elsewhere at this time before they embark on a widening, but they have the space for it.

I mistakenly thought that this was a proposal but it the launch of a study and we won't see any official alternatives for a couple years now.

But what we do know for sure for I-35 in South OKC is that the Indian Hills Interchange is being replaced, a new bridge is going over 34th ST. in Moore, they are getting close to completing the SH-9/Lindsey interchange project & widening, a phase two of the SH-9 project for the interchange south of river is scheduled(details haven't been released), and finally they plan to widen I-35 from four to six lanes from Canadian River to SH-74 as well as reconstructing that interchange there. I believe the last two don't have construction funding identified in the current 8 year plan(only ROW and design).

So they do have a fair amount of projects for I-35 in South OKC and that isn't including the 240 interchange project. I predict we will see service road reworks for sure and possibly some added auxiliary lanes or extended merging lanes. I'm hoping for some new interchanges and maybe they'll add on/off ramps to the future SW 34th St. bridge because the current plans don't call for that but Moore has shown they want to connect it in the near future.

[riflesforwatie]

I-35 in the south metro is as wide as it will ever be (and the same is true for many other highways). Twenty-five years from now there will be enough autonomous cars on the road that we'll be wondering why we have as many lane-miles as we do.

[Ross MacLochness]

I-35 in the south metro is as wide as it will ever be (and the same is true for many other highways). Twenty-five years from now there will be enough autonomous cars on the road that we'll be wondering why we have as many lane-miles as we do.

Im not so sure... I hope I'm wrong, but I think autonomous cars might not curtail sprawl and could even accelerate it. People might be able to live further out since they can commute in private without having to drive. Will the number of autos fall in this scenario? Maybe but maybe not. Will wide highways and more roads be attractive in this scenario? Absolutely.

[jn1780]

Im not so sure... I hope I'm wrong, but I think autonomous cars might not curtail sprawl and could even accelerate it. People might be able to live further out since they can commute in private without having to drive. Will the number of autos fall in this scenario? Maybe but maybe not. Will wide highways and more roads be attractive in this scenario? Absolutely.

I think he is referring to the efficiency of autonomous cars in that you wouldn't need 10 lane roads because autonomous cars would plan more efficient routes and not wait until the last minute to get into their lane. This of course is only when the majority of the cars on the roads are autonomous.

I don't see not having 10 lane roads as being the problem. Its getting cars off of and onto interstates that's the problem.

[Mississippi Blues]

Im not so sure... I hope I'm wrong, but I think autonomous cars might not curtail sprawl and could even accelerate it. People might be able to live further out since they can commute in private without having to drive. Will the number of autos fall in this scenario? Maybe but maybe not. Will wide highways and more roads be attractive in this scenario? Absolutely.

You saying this reminds me of a conversation I heard recently. I can't remember the specifics of the conversation, but I recall autonomous cars being the subject. There was a point made towards autonomous cars enabling you to focus on essential things (i.e. work) while commuting instead of fighting with traffic. The comment was along the lines of "instead of living 30 minutes from work, they (autonomous cars) will allow you to live 60 minutes from work." That's not a direct quote, but the point made seemed to align with your thoughts about the vehicles expediting sprawl.

[riflesforwatie]

I think he is referring to the efficiency of autonomous cars in that you wouldn't need 10 lane roads because autonomous cars would plan more efficient routes and not wait until the last minute to get into their lane. This of course is only when the majority of the cars on the roads are autonomous.

This is mostly what I mean. AVs may allow (or even encourage) people to live further out, but in this context I'm more concerned about overbuilt infrastructure. Extra lanes, longer entrance/exit ramps, etc. are a function of the slow reaction times/poor decision making abilities of human drivers. With a computer behind the wheel, you can optimize land use and traffic control (merging and more) in really interesting ways.

Incidentally, from a sprawl perspective, people may tend to live further out in the AV scenario, but the land use in their neighborhoods and around their homes may still change substantially. It's easy to draw an analogy between a reduction in highway/road lane-miles and square footage devoted to parking. If your AV can pick you up when you're done at the Post Office, does the Post Office still need 100 parking spaces? Does the bank, does CVS, do fast rood restaurants...? I don't know the answers, but it's fascinating to speculate about.

[Plutonic Panda]

I-35 in the south metro is as wide as it will ever be (and the same is true for many other highways). Twenty-five years from now there will be enough autonomous cars on the road that we'll be wondering why we have as many lane-miles as we do.

I completely disagree.

[Of Sound Mind]

This is mostly what I mean. AVs may allow (or even encourage) people to live further out, but in this context I'm more concerned about overbuilt infrastructure. Extra lanes, longer entrance/exit ramps, etc. are a function of the slow reaction times/poor decision making abilities of human drivers. With a computer behind the wheel, you can optimize land use and traffic control (merging and more) in really interesting ways.

We never have problems with computers... no glitches... no freezes... no unexpected shutdowns...

[traxx]

We never have problems with computers... no glitches... no freezes... no unexpected shutdowns...

Yeah, I'm not sold on autonomous vehicles and I'm not sure the general public will buy into it either. It only takes a mistroke to make a line of code bad and then that creates a domino affect of things going wrong from there. Plus, from what I've heard and read, laws will require you to still have to be pay attention to the road and not working or playing on devices etc. If you want to work on your commute to work, take a train or have someone else drive.

Jeremy Clarkson pointed out what I thought was an interesting thought on Top Gear a year or two ago. In talking about autonomous vehicles he said that since the vehicle can't control pedestrians and they could still, without warning, step in front of a vehicle, the time would eventually come for the vehicle to make the decision to kill you or the pedestrian. That's a bit simplified, but you can never account for everything and code a computer for those eventualities. Removing the human decision making process is a slippery slope.

Autonomous vehicles sound good in theory, but the execution is going to be the problem.

[riflesforwatie]

Seems to me the question isn't "are AVs safe?" but "are AVs safer than human drivers?"

[Bunty]

Seems to me the question isn't "are AVs safe?" but "are AVs safer than human drivers?"

It depends on how intelligent, safe and fast AV's can dodge stupid mistakes made by human drivers.

[tfvc.org]

Seems to me the question isn't "are AVs safe?" but "are AVs safer than human drivers?"

Right. I am sure there are going to be accidents, some deadly, however once every vehicle is using AV the accidents are going to be far far fewer than current.

[Plutonic Panda]

Besides driverless cars which will likely have little effect on roads and freeways for the next 5 years and likely much longer, OKDOT will be facing budget cuts that could yet again drag out projects and the 235/44 project is mentioned.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5547324

[no1cub17]

Besides driverless cars which will likely have little effect on roads and freeways for the next 5 years and likely much longer, OKDOT will be facing budget cuts that could yet again drag out projects and the 235/44 project is mentioned.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5547324

Good - maybe then ODOT can use their funds to rebuild/repair the roads we actually need, rather than build a bunch of boulevards we don't.

[Plutonic Panda]

The boulevard is happening whether or not you like it. The freeways you don't like are getting built regardless. It will just take longer.

[ABCOKC]

The boulevard is happening whether or not you like it. The freeways you don't like are getting built regardless. It will just take longer.

Well yeah, this Boulevard is happening; it's already half built.

The hope is that if they have less money then maybe in the future they just won't be able to afford to majorly screw up our downtown.

[Bunty]

ODOT also has plans to widen and completely reconstruct I-35 to six lanes from 2nd St. in Edmond to SH-51 in Stillwater. It isn't funded, but I was hoping they would at least add the widening of I-35 from 2nd St. to Waterloo to the 8 year plan update this year. In all honesty I was only expecting the ROW or utility portion of that small project to be added not the actual construction of the widening, but with the current budget problems, I don't even see that in far I'm worried some projects might fall off.

It would also be nice to build a new two lane bridge along side the old one across the Cimarron River near Langston on Highway 33, so the four lanes can resume from there to meet up where Highway 33 becomes 5 lanes west of Perkins for a distance of around 9 miles. Many people in Stillwater, especially those living on the east side and downtown area prefer that route to I-35 when going to Oklahoma City.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well yeah, this Boulevard is happening; it's already half built.

The hope is that if they have less money then maybe in the future they just won't be able to afford to majorly screw up our downtown.

I am not a fan of the Boulevard either nor am I fan of ODOT. I see OkDOT as a very backwards agency with a very small town mentality of what they reach for. That being said, hoping they go bankrupt because of one project is very foolish. The economy would collapse if the freeways fell into disrepair and almost everyone would move out of the state.

[Plutonic Panda]

It would also be nice to build a new two lane bridge along side the old one across the Cimarron River near Langston on Highway 33, so the four lanes can resume from there to meet up where Highway 33 becomes 5 lanes west of Perkins for a distance of around 9 miles. Many people in Stillwater, especially those living on the east side and downtown area prefer that route to I-35 when going to Oklahoma City.

I've heard about that. I'd even like to see that road turned into a freeway/Expressway one day as a more direct route to Stillwater.

[riflesforwatie]

OTC did go ahead and vote to suspend work on several major projects in their meeting yesterday:

http://newsok.com/article/5547574

[jn1780]

The $88 million contract to widen I-235 to six lanes from N 36th Street to just north of N 50th Street is one of those that may yet be suspended. That project, which includes the replacement of an overhead railroad bridge and highway bridge, has been causing traffic disruptions for months. Suspension of the contract could extend those disruptions.

I hope they don't suspend this project. That truly is the symbol of a failed state if we have an unfinished road project sitting idle.

[TheTravellers]

I hope they don't suspend this project. That truly is the symbol of a failed state if we have an unfinished road project sitting idle.

It's not suspended yet, but is on a list of projects that's being scrutinized to see what they can suspend after this batch. Complete and unethical O&G pandering idiots running this state, they need to quit this penny-ante crap and raise the O&G production tax...

[no1cub17]

I am not a fan of the Boulevard either nor am I fan of ODOT. I see OkDOT as a very backwards agency with a very small town mentality of what they reach for. That being said, hoping they go bankrupt because of one project is very foolish. The economy would collapse if the freeways fell into disrepair and almost everyone would move out of the state.

Can't believe I actually agree with you. You're exactly right - their small-town mentality of not realizing that most human beings are blessed with two feet to use for transportation has led to most of their absurd projects such as the Boulevard. Until they realize that not everywhere wants to be Edmond, this is what we're stuck with.