Crossroads Mall

[Rover]

Still lots of teens at QSM

[u50254082]

Did nobody read the snippet posted by warren? It sounds like the plan is to turn at least part of it into a school. Why all the talk about it becoming something else? (unless you're just tossing ideas around)

[Architect2010]

I Googled "mall redevelopment" and found this concept rendering for Highland Mall in Austin. I would love to see something like this for Plaza Mayor, developing the parking lots into mixed-use buildings and such.

Ultimately, I believe that Plaza Mayor will be, as planned, a stop along the planned commuter rail to Norman. We could very well see a rebirth of Crossroads into a TOD similar to your posting, if the desire is there.

Unfortunately, and as a native Southsider, the general land use and economic activity isn't quite conducive. Ex: Landfill directly east, Valley Brooke., strip bars, industrial use near by, low rooftop count immediately adjacent, and overall inconvenience to access; even considering the new interchange. It just isn't a desireable destination at this point and there are many factors contributing to that conclusion.

[ljbab728]

Unfortunately, and as a native Southsider, the general land use and economic activity isn't quite conducive. Ex: Landfill directly east, Valley Brooke., strip bars, industrial use near by, low rooftop count immediately adjacent, and overall inconvenience to access; even considering the new interchange. It just isn't a desireable destination at this point and there are many factors contributing to that conclusion.

I disagree completely. None of those thing were major factors in the downfall of the mall. In fact, as I've mentioned here before, there was a strip club directly at the mall when it was at it's height. I don't find the access to get there nearly as bad as Quail Springs or even Penn Square.

[stile99]

I disagree completely. None of those thing were major factors in the downfall of the mall. In fact, as I've mentioned here before, there was a strip club directly at the mall when it was at it's height. I don't find the access to get there nearly as bad as Quail Springs or even Penn Square.

Agreed. Wasn't it called Crossroads because it is at the crossroads of two interstates? It is laughably easy to get to, especially when compared to the traffic cluster(you know what) that is Quail Springs. And if the interchange is the issue, come in from the North. Problem solved.

[Architect2010]

I disagree completely. None of those thing were major factors in the downfall of the mall. In fact, as I've mentioned here before, t5here was a strip club directly at the mall when it was at it's height. I don't find the access to get there nearly as bad as Quail Springs or even Penn Square.

And that's okay. I hope you're right and these aren't contributing factors against its revival.

I will note that Pole Rd and one direct exit to 66th is not sufficiently easy access... Especially if it were to become a popular destination once again.

[bombermwc]

Access is an excuse the mall has used for years to try to explain away the downfall. Even if Pole Rd isn't there and you have to go to Eastern, it's still easy to get to. A mall is a destination, and people will drive to get to the destination. Going through a few more stoplights won't change that. It can take longer for people to navigate the city streets to get to Quail or Penn. Really Sooner and Shawnee are the only ones that are actually 100% easily accessible by the interstate.

Does anyone actually remember lines to get into the parking lot at Crossroads....ever? There's absolutely zero chance of it being as busy as Penn Square. It's a matter of what retail looks like these days, not just that it's Crossroads, or where it is.

[traxx]

Agreed. Wasn't it called Crossroads because it is at the crossroads of two interstates? It is laughably easy to get to, especially when compared to the traffic cluster(you know what) that is Quail Springs. And if the interchange is the issue, come in from the North. Problem solved.

It's laughably easy to see from the interstate. Exiting and actually getting to it can be a chore. If you're not familiar with the area, you can get on the wrong road and have difficulty getting there. But no, you won't have to deal with the traffic like you would at Qauil or Penn. About the only traffic you deal with at Crossroads is a tumbleweed. But that's been the case for at least 20 years.

[BLJR]

I hope the school going in there brings some positive to it. Based on my observation, the reason it closed was due to criminal element. People were getting robbed in the parking lot, and quite a bit of shoplifting going on. When those become every day occurrences, people go somewhere else, and stores pull out due to inventory shrinkage combined with a lack of cusotmers. We took the kids there to the Christmas thing that is there in the old arcade space this December, and they thought it was pretty neat inside and wanted to know why all the stores were empty. That is when I broke out the economics lesson.

Last time I was there to shop (many years ago), I was parking near the Macys (think it was Foley's back then). I saw two younger guys bolting out of the east door running with some clothes. Security was chasing them but losing. As they kept running and appeared that they were going to get away, a very long train came through, and they were unable to cross the tracks, and they got caught. It was the funniest thing I have ever seen.

[Architect2010]

Access is an excuse the mall has used for years to try to explain away the downfall. Even if Pole Rd isn't there and you have to go to Eastern, it's still easy to get to. A mall is a destination, and people will drive to get to the destination. Going through a few more stoplights won't change that. It can take longer for people to navigate the city streets to get to Quail or Penn. Really Sooner and Shawnee are the only ones that are actually 100% easily accessible by the interstate.

Does anyone actually remember lines to get into the parking lot at Crossroads....ever? There's absolutely zero chance of it being as busy as Penn Square. It's a matter of what retail looks like these days, not just that it's Crossroads, or where it is.

Great post, but I think people are already missing the context of my post. Which is that this area, Crossroads, is a planned stop along our planned commuter rail to Norman. With that stop comes the potential for a TOD or retail revival of some sort. I think it would be awesome to see a TOD with Crossroads incorporated.

Rooftops nearby, desirability, and access are definitely contributing factors as to whether a TOD or revival of the area can be achieved, or if the stop will serve just as a Park and Ride station. IMO. I think the potential is there, but not without hurdles to overcome.

[Pete]

Does anyone actually remember lines to get into the parking lot at Crossroads....ever? There's absolutely zero chance of it being as busy as Penn Square. It's a matter of what retail looks like these days, not just that it's Crossroads, or where it is.

I remember because I worked there in college from 1979 to 1982 and during busy times traffic would back up onto the interstate.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post and think the access is way more than adequate, but during its hey day Crossroads was crazy busy with plenty of traffic snarls.

[SoonerDave]

I remember because I worked there in college from 1979 to 1982 and during busy times traffic would back up onto the interstate.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post and think the access is way more than adequate, but during its hey day Crossroads was crazy busy with plenty of traffic snarls.

I'll second this, since I don't have a 'Like' button

People below a certain age don't realize what Crossroads was back when it was A Thing. That I-240/I-35 junction was largely undeveloped. A retail center of that magnitude was a monstrous upgrade for the region that had been served by strip centers such as Reding, Grant Square, or even TG&Y farther up I-240, or the City of Moore shopping center a few miles south. And Crossroads didn't just attract the south OKC/Moore area - it attracted customers from every corner of the city. It didn't have just national retailers like JC Penny and Wards, it had formerly great *local* retailers like John A. Brown, Emmer Brothers, and Napoleon Nash. It was unique in Oklahoma City. And it had *throngs* of people going there at its peak, which I can also attest to both as a shopper and someone who worked there off-and-on during college, even as its popularity was starting to ebb.

I remember as a kid walking through Crossroads when it opened, just awestruck at the size and scope of the place as a nine-year-old in 1974, sipping an Orange Julius and getting to play some pinball and video games at the LeMans Speedway.

I realize that in its present, kinda sad state (present rehab efforts notwithstanding), it's nearly impossible for anyone to imagine that it once legitimately was a *great* destination and had a sense of grandeur. The only other "malls" in that era were Penn Square, which was an open-air, single-floor mall at that time, and Shepherd Mall, with large retailers like Sears (back when they were a thing, too). (There's a separate story about Sears Reding moving to Crossroads that fell through, but that could merit its own discussion).

There are *lots* of reasons for Crossroads' demise - no magic bullet. And some aspects of its demise have, shall we say, been somewhat embellished over time. But anyone straying over into the idea that Crossroads wasn't a great spectacle for that era risks treading into a bit of revisionism.

[Pete]

When it opened, it was OKC's only megamall and drew people from all over the state and beyond.

I worked at Orbach's (fine men's store) from 1979 to 1982 and we had tons of customers from all over, as they were usually happy to tell you they had driven in from somewhere remote.

[Roger S]

We drove from Tuttle just about every Sunday to go there when I was a kid. My grandfather loved to go there and people watch. He would set by the fountain or you could occasionally catch him down at Winchell's having a cup of coffee.

We had every video game demo system in the mall mapped out as well as freebies. I would get $2 to spend, most of which was spent at Le Mans, and I would usually go find grandpa and hit him up for another $1 which always came with a "Don't tell your grandmother I gave you that" a wink and a single scoop of praline and cream from Baskin Robbins.

We would play the Ataris, Colecovisions, and Intellivisions until the department stores would run us off and then we would go hit Hickory Farms for free cheese, summer sausage, soup, and hot tea samples multiple times in between heading to the next free video game display.

[oklip955]

Does anyone remember the ice cream palor? It had a Victorian era theme. Loved that place and cried when it closed.

[Plutonic Panda]

I remember that tight ass pet shop they had.

[ljbab728]

Does anyone remember the ice cream palor? It had a Victorian era theme. Loved that place and cried when it closed.

Yes, that was Farrell's. I went there many times to take my kids.

[Hutch]

Great post, but I think people are already missing the context of my post. Which is that this area, Crossroads, is a planned stop along our planned commuter rail to Norman. With that stop comes the potential for a TOD or retail revival of some sort. I think it would be awesome to see a TOD with Crossroads incorporated.

Exactly. A regional transit system is in the works for OKC and the Crossroads site could well see a commuter rail station as part of that system. It's great to see others thinking about how rail transit could help transform this area.

In 2012, the OKC Urban Land Institute, South Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce and Oklahoma City Planning Department were partners in a project called Envision 240, which looked at what could be done to revive the I-240 corridor between Will Rogers Airport on the west and Tinker AFB on the east, including the Crossroads Mall area.

At the time, I was involved in the ongoing rail transit planning initiatives taking place in OKC and started researching other redevelopment projects for outdated malls involving rail transit service. I was surprised when I found a 2011 Austin ULI report on the Highland Mall in Austin, Texas that was in the planning stages for mixed-use redevelopment, including a commuter rail station. This is the redevelopment project mentioned earlier by KayneMo. I provided this information to OKC ULI, but unfortunately there wasn't much consideration given to it in the final Envision 240 report. I'm not sure why that was.

Here's a link to a 2011 article describing the Austin ULI effort:

Preparing for Takeoff - Plans Underway for Major Redo of Airport Boulevard and Highland Mall

What's interesting is just how similar Highland Mall was at the time to Crossroads Mall today in terms of its condition, size, location to downtown Austin, proximity to a potential commuter rail line, and its potential to serve as a significant mixed use development anchor for a major transportation, retail and business corridor in decline.

Here's a few more images from the Austin ULI presentation:











The Highland Mall redevelopment is currently underway. It will certainly be transformative for that area of Austin. Crossroads Mall will provide a similar opportunity for OKC once we get a regional transit system in place and commuter rail in operation.

[OKC2017]

in my opinion a commuter rail stop at crossroads could ultimately save the site from demolition. i am not sure what the number of passengers who
would potentially displace themselves through this transit system axis might be, but if it is a considerable number of commuters then it makes total sense
to include crossroads as a convenient stop. i think, however, that for ultimate success all the strategies mentioned above could be the right recipe for a rebirth
of this shopping center. the commuter rail line can be the backbone of new development that could foster a more accessible, pedestrian friendly surrounding
for institutional space (charter school) and retail, housing and entertainment. they should hire a really good architecture/planning firm, however, to design
an innovative master plan for the entire site and surroundings to successfully define and project the site's tremendous potential.

[bombermwc]

dense shopping areas are an excellent place to put stops. The problem is getting the stop to the location. Crossroads is one of the few that is sitting on the proposed routes (like Sooner). There are a handful of other areas that are close, but not quite close enough (ie MWC Town Center). For these things to really be successful in removing cars from the road, we need <1/4 mile walk from the stop to the destination. No damn bus switch either. Obviously every area isn't going to be able to do this so it has to make sense in the planning. But if we can do it. then for sure jet off a side line for the couple of hundred yards it takes to get the rail up to the doors of Crossroads. Lord knows there's plenty parking lot space there to get a line in/out!

One worry i wold have is if it appears to show favoritism to a particular private investment and so would someone else that may get excluded, sue the city over this and end up dragging out legal battles? Think if the line ends up going north and across Memorial, it'll probably stop at Quail. So having stops at Sooner/Crossroads/Quail, Penn Square isn't near the planned lines for any foreseeable future. Would they get their panties in a twist by feeling excluded? Which side of I-35 in Moore do you stop on near 19th? Does the other side make a big stink about it? That kind of thin. I'm sure other cities have been through this though.

[stile99]

in my opinion a commuter rail stop at crossroads could ultimately save the site from demolition. i am not sure what the number of passengers who
would potentially displace themselves through this transit system axis might be, but if it is a considerable number of commuters then it makes total sense
to include crossroads as a convenient stop. i think, however, that for ultimate success all the strategies mentioned above could be the right recipe for a rebirth
of this shopping center. the commuter rail line can be the backbone of new development that could foster a more accessible, pedestrian friendly surrounding
for institutional space (charter school) and retail, housing and entertainment. they should hire a really good architecture/planning firm, however, to design
an innovative master plan for the entire site and surroundings to successfully define and project the site's tremendous potential.

Not to throw too much reality into the mix here, but as much fun as it is to dream of what 'we' might want for Crossroads (and I am in no way discouraging discussing these dreams), something we should probably keep in mind is someone else also had dreams...and that someone ponied up the cash. Nothing is going to "save the site from demolition" because it isn't up for demolition.

[BLJR]

Hutch, I think one of the major problems with that I-240 corridor improvement between the Airport and Crossroads is that a majority of that I-240 frontage are apartments, many of which are owned by out of state property groups, and they really don't care about major improvements, but just want the revenue from those complexes. Getitng them to "spruce up their places" will be a challenge, as they really could care less. I would love to see it visually improved, but it is going to be a major production to get done.

[traxx]

I remember that tight ass pet shop they had.

This made me laugh.

Do you mean tight as in small or tight as in good?

You could always open your own pet store - Panda's Tight Ass Pets

[ljbab728]

Which side of I-35 in Moore do you stop on near 19th? Does the other side make a big stink about it?

Since the existing rail right-of-way is east of I-35, I don't think there would be any debate about that.

[bombermwc]

Hutch, I think one of the major problems with that I-240 corridor improvement between the Airport and Crossroads is that a majority of that I-240 frontage are apartments, many of which are owned by out of state property groups, and they really don't care about major improvements, but just want the revenue from those complexes. Getitng them to "spruce up their places" will be a challenge, as they really could care less. I would love to see it visually improved, but it is going to be a major production to get done.

Majority? There are quite a few between 35/44, but it's a HUGE stretch to say they cover the majority of the road. And i believe most of them are concentrated right near Penn. I'd agree that getting them to clean up would be difficult, but if you look at them, you can tell the ones your probably speaking of are also low income housing. So there's not going to be a lot of extra profit around to spend on a look from the highway. Probably the best thing you could hope for is some large trees to block the view.

But some of them aren't really bad looking. The one on the south side of 240 just west of May redid the facade several years ago to what it is now. If you remember, each unit had a different "look", even on the same building. Now at least it's consistent. The one on the south side near Western...Santa Fe looking whatever, is in good shape. 240 Place or something, i feel like is done well. The rest...not so much. But there's a big difference in rates between those complexes too. Then there's the middle ground with the north side one...Something Ridge. It's not bad looking for apartments it's age either. Really i think the crappy ones are the ones between Penn and Western on the south side, and they all happen to be right in a row.

While we're at it, let's talk about the crappy 7-11. The usually abandoned vet clinic that's been a million things (next to Chick Fil A). The ever crappy looking Office Depot that always looks like it should be closed, so they put up a sign that says "yes we're open".

But in general terms, i dont think that this section of 240 really looks all that bad. There are very few spaces that are empty, and those seem to always be empty.