Bricktown Marriott Renaissance

[Dr Beard Face]

I think Lackmeyer said in at least one of his chats that the Spaghetti Warehouse bldg would require extensive renovation (but don't quote me on that), at least of the ground floor (there are holes in it, and it's just in pretty crappy shape overall), not totally sure about the upper floors, but I think they've been vacant for years, if not decades, so they're probably in not great shape either.

Having said that, this design is pretty cool, be really nice if it goes in as projected.

Spaghetti Warehouse looked into renovating the upper floors but could only use one of them. They told me about that just a few months before they shut down, so I'm not sure if they ever ended up doing anything to it, but they were looking at making it an event space. I think the building would need to be demolished, or have an incredibly expensive and heavy duty renovation in order for anyone to move in to that spot.

[PhiAlpha]

Spaghetti Warehouse looked into renovating the upper floors but could only use one of them. They told me about that just a few months before they shut down, so I'm not sure if they ever ended up doing anything to it, but they were looking at making it an event space. I think the building would need to be demolished, or have an incredibly expensive and heavy duty renovation in order for anyone to move in to that spot.

Haha, no it wouldn't need to be demolished and that wouldn't be allowed. It's no different than the PLOW or other warehouses that have been renovated down there and probably in much better shape than the Plow. It would have to be brought up to code by someone who isn't lazy with a good business plan and converted to offices or apartments. It's completely doable though.

[Pete]

Probably the issue was that they couldn't renovate one floor without completely gutting and rebuilding that structure from the inside out.

But there are developers ready to do that now if the existing owners would just cooperate.


You may remember I posted a bunch of photos of the SW right after it closed and that building was in pretty bad shape.

[TheTravellers]

Yep, Lackmeyer said that the owners basically ignore everybody and everything trying to contact them (sounds like it's not that they've been contacted and have a high price or something like that, they basically won't even pick up the phone or return calls or emails), and they're out of state, I think, so it's just gonna sit deteriorating, sadly, for the time being.

[traxx]

Also, is there any kind of plan to streetscape Sheridan between the railroad and Joe Carter Ave? That entire stretch could use new lane lines and possibly some reconfiguring to make it more pedestrian friendly. Honestly it could also stand to be re-paved as well, though I have no idea how that would work when we're actively putting streetcar rails into the current pavement.

It would be kind of cool if they could make the area between the RR and Mickey Mantle Dr. a pedestrian only area (except for the streetcar). But that probably isn't feasible with the new hotel. If you're a hotel, you don't want out of town guest getting lost trying to find you because the street that goes right in front of your hotel is pedestrian only. If that were the case then hotel guest could only come up Oklahoma Ave to the hotel.

[zefferoni]

I'm pleased with the amount of streetail on the garage. I noticed the retail and restaurant spots on the hotel plans, will those be street facing as well?

[Pete]

The dining and bar area will front both Oklahoma and Sheridan avenues.

You can see on the renderings and plans there will be a curb cut-out and drop off point along Oklahoma.

[TheTravellers]

I'm pleased with the amount of streetail on the garage. I noticed the retail and restaurant spots on the hotel plans, will those be street facing as well?

Streetail - fantastic term, thanks for adding to my vocabulary!

[dankrutka]

It would be kind of cool if they could make the area between the RR and Mickey Mantle Dr. a pedestrian only area (except for the streetcar). But that probably isn't feasible with the new hotel. If you're a hotel, you don't want out of town guest getting lost trying to find you because the street that goes right in front of your hotel is pedestrian only. If that were the case then hotel guest could only come up Oklahoma Ave to the hotel.

I would just love to see a streetscape to Sheridan that added bike lanes, a center median with trees, and reduced traffic to one-lane each way. That could really make the area feel more walkable. I don't know if there is room for all of that, but the street/sidewalks really could use a pedestrian friendly update. Of course, all of this is even more needed on Reno, which is terrible for pedestrians.

[traxx]

all of this is even more needed on Reno, which is terrible for pedestrians.

I'll second that emotion.

[Teo9969]

Just some personal observations...

I'm concerned for the existing Renaissance. There is absolutely no comparison between a 25 floor hotel attached to a convention/arena space, and a small hotel like this in bricktown. It's great to have it here and all, but if i have a choice between the two, i think i'll take the existing tower. How often does a hotel change flags from the original one, and it end up being a good thing? My concern is that it would be the start of a downward spiral for the existing hotel. At only 17 years old, it's a baby. Not too many people realize that the meeting space in the Cox Center is coordinated with the hotel as well. So when my previous employer rented room space during a tradeshow, we did our business out of the hotel offices and that includes the food service coordination. Just because the new CC shows up, dont expect the Cox to just stop doing business. It will take a major hit though. But with this construction, the Renaissance will be further away from the "action".

UnfrSakn mentioned Spaghetti Warehouse. I wonder why someone wouldn't just look at that space to convert? The structure is sound (i mean i guess as far as i know). Being warehouse space, it would have had sufficient floor height and similar column spacing. I'm sure negotiations were all part of the deal here though. Given what's happening, it might not surprise me to see a different flag take that building.

Danrutka mentioned Chelinos. The back side of that stretch of canal buildings has been an eyesore from day one. I'm hoping the blockage of the view by a garage and a building will help force more focus on the canal side. Personally, i think Chelino's is nasty, but somehow that place has managed to stay in business through all the changes in Bricktown.

For Parking, this is probably one of the few times that i feel like adding a garage will be a good thing. It's going to HAVE to be open to the public as well as hotel guests though. It's an area with very little parking available and would take the biggest public lot in the area. It's used pretty frequently for the lunch crowd. It's going to make things difficult during construction, but would actually make things better in the long run. My fear here is if another hotel takes the Spaghetti space, maybe some deal gets made, and then it's no longer publicly available. The lot just west of here near the tracks has a lot of business employee parking in it so weekdays are full, but it's open for weekends. But it's at that far west end of Bricktown. And we all know Okies are some lazy farts when it comes to walking......

I've thought the same. Hard to imagine what flag it will end up with.

Dr. Beard Face up thread mentioned that the owners are looking at a high end Westin...

Given its location, I'm not worried about the building's future. It's going to have a rough 5 years after the Cox CC closes down, but it will rebound nicely after that.

[jn1780]

I think Lackmeyer said in at least one of his chats that the Spaghetti Warehouse bldg would require extensive renovation (but don't quote me on that), at least of the ground floor (there are holes in it, and it's just in pretty crappy shape overall), not totally sure about the upper floors, but I think they've been vacant for years, if not decades, so they're probably in not great shape either.

Having said that, this design is pretty cool, be really nice if it goes in as projected.

Requring extensive renovation pretty much describes every Brick town building that hasn't already received renovation. The Spaghetti Warehouse building is one of the few left to be renovated. Along with restoring the uhual building back to its former glory.

[OKCisOK4me]

I just realized we're going to lose the Bricktown flagpole that flies the USA and Thunder flag. I'm okay with that though. These plans look fantastic and I really hope they approve this design!

[Sic'EmBears]

Congrats, guys!

The scale fits in with Bricktown.

I made a thread for the project on SSP.

[ChrisHayes]

While I like this building, it would be nice to hear of something of this scale being built in Bricktown that isn't a hotel.

[Eddie1]

I agree, ^ are we not at saturation point yet for hotels down there? Looks very nice though.

[ljbab728]

While I like this building, it would be nice to hear of something of this scale being built in Bricktown that isn't a hotel.

This has been proposed but hasn't been able to get off the ground yet.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...hlight=cummins

[bombermwc]

The Cox will be demolished and redeveloped into normal lots that fit with the streetscape. So yes, the Cox will "stop doing business". Great move for the city. The property will be prime location.

Unless you have some insight into a plan no one else does, that's most definitely NOT on the map right now.

Dr. Beard Face up thread mentioned that the owners are looking at a high end Westin...

I wonder if that makes sense though. We've got a pretty nice Westin right now, and something on the same level is going to directly compete with that...within the same brand family. It's too far from the CC to get a Marriot family to take it, but the trick here is getting deals for Thunder games/etc. What the Westin and Current "R" have, is proximity to the 'Peake that the new CC and hotel will not have. One could say something similar for the soccer stadium, although that's a bit of a stretch since it's still quite a walk to get there even from the Myriad. I'm thinking those recurring customers like the teams and their entourages/media/etc. The wont will it on a normal day, but they can make a pretty good dent.

With the Skirvin/Colcord around the corner too, i'm wondering if the high-end hotelier brands are saturated. I have no idea really since i dont rent hotel rooms here. But each of them are large players in the game. I'm sure demographers are taking a hard look before they decide who's flag to fly there. Lacking a garage, a GOOD driveway (like the Westin), and zero meeting space whatsoever, has always been an issue IMO for the "R". Too much relied on the Cox being there....and it wont last forever. I dont think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it wont live forever. I still think the city will hold it until it's time to replace the Peake. Already own the land....and it's big enough of a lot that they can build more than just an arena when they do build. Not quite a Barklay's, but plenty of room for mixed-use/etc. on the superblock. No reason to chop it up either....doesn't get us anything since it doesn't alter access to anything by bringing the grid back there.

[DowntownMan]

Unless you have some insight into a plan no one else does, that's most definitely NOT on the map right now.




I wonder if that makes sense though. We've got a pretty nice Westin right now, and something on the same level is going to directly compete with that...within the same brand family. It's too far from the CC to get a Marriot family to take it, but the trick here is getting deals for Thunder games/etc. What the Westin and Current "R" have, is proximity to the 'Peake that the new CC and hotel will not have. One could say something similar for the soccer stadium, although that's a bit of a stretch since it's still quite a walk to get there even from the Myriad. I'm thinking those recurring customers like the teams and their entourages/media/etc. The wont will it on a normal day, but they can make a pretty good dent.

With the Skirvin/Colcord around the corner too, i'm wondering if the high-end hotelier brands are saturated. I have no idea really since i dont rent hotel rooms here. But each of them are large players in the game. I'm sure demographers are taking a hard look before they decide who's flag to fly there. Lacking a garage, a GOOD driveway (like the Westin), and zero meeting space whatsoever, has always been an issue IMO for the "R". Too much relied on the Cox being there....and it wont last forever. I dont think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it wont live forever. I still think the city will hold it until it's time to replace the Peake. Already own the land....and it's big enough of a lot that they can build more than just an arena when they do build. Not quite a Barklay's, but plenty of room for mixed-use/etc. on the superblock. No reason to chop it up either....doesn't get us anything since it doesn't alter access to anything by bringing the grid back there.

We don't have a Westin right now. It changed to Sheraton a long time ago. Also Sheraton and Westin are both Marriott brands now anyway since there merger with starwood

Also the cc hotel will be closer to the Peake than these hotels as it will just be across the blvd.

[PhiAlpha]

Unless you have some insight into a plan no one else does, that's most definitely NOT on the map right now.




I wonder if that makes sense though. We've got a pretty nice Westin right now, and something on the same level is going to directly compete with that...within the same brand family. It's too far from the CC to get a Marriot family to take it, but the trick here is getting deals for Thunder games/etc. What the Westin and Current "R" have, is proximity to the 'Peake that the new CC and hotel will not have. One could say something similar for the soccer stadium, although that's a bit of a stretch since it's still quite a walk to get there even from the Myriad. I'm thinking those recurring customers like the teams and their entourages/media/etc. The wont will it on a normal day, but they can make a pretty good dent.

With the Skirvin/Colcord around the corner too, i'm wondering if the high-end hotelier brands are saturated. I have no idea really since i dont rent hotel rooms here. But each of them are large players in the game. I'm sure demographers are taking a hard look before they decide who's flag to fly there. Lacking a garage, a GOOD driveway (like the Westin), and zero meeting space whatsoever, has always been an issue IMO for the "R". Too much relied on the Cox being there....and it wont last forever. I dont think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it wont live forever. I still think the city will hold it until it's time to replace the Peake. Already own the land....and it's big enough of a lot that they can build more than just an arena when they do build. Not quite a Barklay's, but plenty of room for mixed-use/etc. on the superblock. No reason to chop it up either....doesn't get us anything since it doesn't alter access to anything by bringing the grid back there.

Where is our Westin?

[hoya]

Unless you have some insight into a plan no one else does, that's most definitely NOT on the map right now.




I wonder if that makes sense though. We've got a pretty nice Westin right now, and something on the same level is going to directly compete with that...within the same brand family. It's too far from the CC to get a Marriot family to take it, but the trick here is getting deals for Thunder games/etc. What the Westin and Current "R" have, is proximity to the 'Peake that the new CC and hotel will not have. One could say something similar for the soccer stadium, although that's a bit of a stretch since it's still quite a walk to get there even from the Myriad. I'm thinking those recurring customers like the teams and their entourages/media/etc. The wont will it on a normal day, but they can make a pretty good dent.

With the Skirvin/Colcord around the corner too, i'm wondering if the high-end hotelier brands are saturated. I have no idea really since i dont rent hotel rooms here. But each of them are large players in the game. I'm sure demographers are taking a hard look before they decide who's flag to fly there. Lacking a garage, a GOOD driveway (like the Westin), and zero meeting space whatsoever, has always been an issue IMO for the "R". Too much relied on the Cox being there....and it wont last forever. I dont think it's going anywhere any time soon, but it wont live forever. I still think the city will hold it until it's time to replace the Peake. Already own the land....and it's big enough of a lot that they can build more than just an arena when they do build. Not quite a Barklay's, but plenty of room for mixed-use/etc. on the superblock. No reason to chop it up either....doesn't get us anything since it doesn't alter access to anything by bringing the grid back there.

I think they'll keep the Cox Center until somebody comes in with a big plan to do something with that space. We probably need a combination of good plan, developer with money, and really high oil prices to get it done right. I think they'll sit on it and just let it operate until all those factors come together.

As a second convention center and a second arena, the Cox isn't that bad. It's certainly not nice enough to be the city's primary convention center, but it's not so much of an eyesore that the city will be itching to tear it down. I think they'll do a cost benefit analysis one the new convention center is up and running, and they'll see if there's an advantage to keeping the Cox. Theoretically you could host more conventions at the same time. You'd have an oil and gas convention or something at the new center, and maybe a classic car show or whatever at the Cox. As long as it isn't losing money, I think they'll keep it around for a while.

As valuable as the property should be, if we were to tear it down today, that would make 3 sides of the Myriad Gardens that were surrounded by empty (or mostly empty) lots. At least one of those sides needs to fill in first before we go adding another empty side.

[Pete]

The biggest issue in redeveloping the Cox Center is the tons of valuable parking spaces underneath.

If/when they build a new garage for the new CC and hotel that will help but those spaces serve lots of companies in the CBD right now and is completely full.

[bombermwc]

My bad, i guess i always think of it as the Westin and forget the Sheraton switch. D'oh! Its' only been like 10 years since it happened.....geez. im getting old.

[David]

Steve is reporting in this article that this project was approved by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee yesterday and construction is planned to start in May.

[_Kyle]

Steve is reporting in this article that this project was approved by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee yesterday and construction is planned to start in May.

I'm very happy about this being approved but kinda sad were losing the flagpole.