Who's Fault?

[Karried]

I'm playing devil's advocate here.. just a scenario to imagine.. and a 'what would you do' situation?

Young couple gets married... both take pride in their appearance, they work out, they are in shape, nice clothes, healthy habits, good hygiene.. you get the picture.. they love each other, they want to make each other happy.

The first few years, they both care about the relationship, they both try hard.. they both care about making one another happy, they stay in shape, they meet each other's needs..

Then something changes - it could be either one.. for any reason, one loses interest in the relationship... let's just say it's the wife.

She stops caring, stops doing the romantic things she used to, refuses to have sex, refuses to get out of her sweats all day.. doesn't make an effort, just doesn't care anymore.. she is definitely not the same person that the husband married.

Husband tries everything he knows to inspire her or to get her to work on the relationship.. nothing. She's lost the loving feeling.. it could be anything, the kids, life whatever, but she no longer cares about him.

Then the inevitable happens, he meets someone at work, someone who is cute and young and adores him .. she makes him feel like his wife used to ..

He has an affair.

He leaves his wife.

He is hated and despised by nearly everyone for leaving his marriage.


How do you feel about it?





(Disclaimer, purely to stir debate and discussion)

[bandnerd]

While I don't think that cheating is ever really justified...I would have to say that the husband here was running out of options. Who wants to stay in a loveless marriage?

He should have filed for divorce first. However, I don't really blame him for what he did, either. Everyone else needs to get over their feelings about him leaving his wife, as it is none of their business.

[Easy180]

agree with bandnerd...He should have just dropped the sweats lovin wife b4 cheating

If he did truly try everything to resurrect the marriage b4 cheating I would still place more blame on the ex-wife for the marriage ending

[bandnerd]

I don't understand why some people fall into the "I got my spouse, I don't need to take care of myself anymore" mentality. Yeah, my husband has seen me at my worst...but he has also seen me at my best. Maybe I don't get my hair done every day, or wear makeup every day, or get manicures/pedicures and all that...but I take care of myself, I dress appropriately (I'm not wearing heels around the house, though) and I do what I can to keep the relationship from becoming stagnant.

Of course, we see each other so little it's almost like a party anytime we have more than 30 minutes together lol.

[MadMonk]

agree with bandnerd...He should have just dropped the sweats lovin wife b4 cheating

Ditto

[Karried]

I feel the same way... it bothers me that some people think "I've got them now!" aha! and then let themselves go to pot after they snag their 'mate'. How hard is it to put on some lipgloss and a nice outfit instead of faded t-shirts and baggy sweats?

Of all the people you want to look nice for and keep interested, it should be your spouse!

And here is something else that bothers me.. 'soapbox' alert!

Once you are married, you are the only person that your spouse can turn to for intimacy and sex. Why is it that a woman can reject her husband over and over and not expect him to think about other women? Or vice/versa?

It is pretty common though, but if you aren't going to keep your significant other happy at home, someone else out there will! If you have a perpetual headache, here's a pill for you... visualize a younger 'trade-in' if you will, with your spouse - traveling and spending your retirement! That should clear up that headache! lol

I don't agree with affairs either though... communication is key. If you start feeling disconnected or that your spouse doesn't 'care' any longer.. you have to tell them how you feel so they can try to rectify the situation.

Hey if it's working for the couple, who really cares, but when one person starts to 'stray' either emotionally or physically, something needs to change.

Life gets ahold of us sometimes and before we know it we forget what is really important in life.

[okcpulse]

Communication is important. If a spouse just dropped all efforts for the marriage to work, the other half should talk with her, ask her why she stopped trying. He should demand a straight honest answer. No beating around the bush. She also owes it to him to make clear whether she wants to continue the relationship. If not, the answer is clear. File for divorce and move on.

But wait just a second. We're discussing marriage here. Marriage is something sacred... meant for a couple that can't stand being apart from each other for the rest of their life, understanding completely that times can get rough. Marriage is an unbrakeable bond. Yet, the public definition of marriage has changed. Most people no longer take it seriously. They view it in the same league as a dating relationship. If it get's too inconvenient, call the divorce lawyer. Too many people always want to take the chicken s**t way out, including stop putting effort into a relationship.

My best advice, when you meet someone, use foresight, and marry for the right reasons. Marry because you hearts are already married. Marry because your souls are already one. Don't marry because it's the next logical step, or because of money, or because the family says you should marry. It will end in disaster. If you marry because the sex is good and nothing else isn't a big deal, go ahead and write off your marriage, because it's as good as over.

I will say this... if a spouse treats a wife magically, showering her with love, then six years later turns into a complete wife-beating psycho with a possessive problem that would even scare a genocidal dictator, my heart goes out to you. Create some angles for escape, get a divorce and toss him in the slammer. Men who abuse women should be banished to some remote undiscovered island where he winds up talking to himself and forgotten by time.

[rxis]

I like what your saying, Karried. I think thats how a lot of affairs happen.

"Communication is important. If a spouse just dropped all efforts for the marriage to work, the other half should talk with her, ask her why she stopped trying. He should demand a straight honest answer. No beating around the bush. She also owes it to him to make clear whether she wants to continue the relationship. If not, the answer is clear. File for divorce and move on."

I sorta agree. I just don't think its that black and white in reality. Actually, that sounds like something most of us men would say but not do.


"Men who abuse women should be banished to some remote undiscovered island where he winds up talking to himself and forgotten by time."

My wife punches me. Sometimes it leaves a little bruise on my arm. Could she be banished as well? hehe

[bandnerd]

If your wife bruises you so easily then maybe you should be the one who is banished

j/k

[Cake Lady]

I don't agree that we are so quick to say it would be okay for this 'man' to violate his vows...Our society has become so 'me' centered that I think we need to be careful not to believe we deserve something more than we do. Marriage is til death, and when you stand before God and your witnesses, you publically proclaim that promise to your spouse, not as long as it's convenient, or for as long as you are truly satisfied, but forever. Things like 'death, poorer and sickness' just about cover the worst of things, don't they? We are called to stay and work it out, not justify our means of dissatisfaction and give into that kind of temptation.

[Karried]

I don't think it's okay for anyone to violate their vows. But, it's not always clear cut. She's not keeping her end of the bargain, why should he?

If you read my first post again... take out 'has an affair'.

Just read 'leaves his wife'.

After all efforts, are you saying he should stay in a loveless marriage where she doesn't care about him because he took a vow?

What about a wife beater, ( anyone watch Oprah yesterday..horrific), a child molester, a drug addict.. for better for worse??

When is it okay to break the vow - if ever?

[Rifleman2C]

He has an affair.

He leaves his wife.

He is hated and despised by nearly everyone for leaving his marriage.


How do you feel about it?

Not only is it time for a spouse that cares for him (or her), but it might be time for some new friends as well. After all, if you've got such a big change in your life and want to start fresh, what better way to do it?

It might even be advantageous to move to a new city and start a new career. And make sure the one you cheated with isn't around, either... no sense having that kind of baggage the rest of your life.

And make sure you leave the kids with her (him) to seal the deal. You wouldn't want to have any kind of lingering ties to the old life. That would just bring you down. This is about you.





(Just for the sake of discussion)

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Discussions like this (and watching friends in the flesh-world go through hell)...And people wonder why I've never married.

"Til death do us part"? Are you kidding? If I've invested years of time and all possible effort trying to keep somebody happy and it's not worked...I'm gone. I know too many miserable old couples that stayed together because of a decision they made when they were 18 freakin' years old.

"Leaves his wife" is perfectly acceptable in this case to me. "Cheating" is NEVER acceptable. It's so incredibly destructive to all parties. If you're unhappy and it's not working...Suck it up, take your lumps, be an adult instead of a hormonal high school retard, and leave.

And if a divorce is the worst thing I've got to answer for on judgement day, I've done damn good.

[Cake Lady]

I'm not advocating for anyone to stay in a 'loveless' marriage, and I do believe there's sometimes grounds for divorce (BEFORE the affair). I'm just questioning if the finger's being pointed in the wrong direction here.

If the lady had a physical illness and was unable to fulfill his 'needs', would it still be justifyable? What if she was dealing with some major depression? Do you think he did enough to help her with the issue instead of taking it up with lady #2 to get what he thought he 'deserved'?

How long do you think lady #2 will be able to satisfy him, assuming they stay in a relationship? Will he bale out on her when the lust wears off a bit? Generally relationships built in distrust do not work out.

I have a passion about this because I've seen up close and personal what divorce does to families when there are kids involved. It's hell and I think if we took our vows seriously instead of putting our selfish desires first there would be a lot less hurting people in the world.

I am grateful for my husband, who didn't take that kind of attitude when things got tough for us. And we have an amazing relationship that I can only credit God for.

[Easy180]

Count me gone as well if I have been stuck in a horrible marriage for years with no chance of salvaging it

Only have one life people...You want to waste 40 years of it because you married the wrong person even though you went into it with the best intentions?

Let me lend you a time machine so you can head back to the 50's...Now we know better

[dirtrider73068]

If he was unhappy due to wife's fault than out the door he can go, if she wasn't giveing him any then he WILL go hunt elsewhere to get his needs filled or released whichever the outcome. Plain and simple the wife went to pot, didn't give a rats butt so he ditched her for somebody else and got a divorce, don't matter the order he took, he divorced her, cause she made him unhappy. Now for everybody looking down on him because of it, he needs find new friends and family adn get rid of the old noncareing and , not understanding friends goodbye.

[BailJumper]

He is hated and despised by nearly everyone for leaving his marriage.

What year are you living in? 1950.

Since when is a person "hated" and "despised" "by nearly everyone" for having and affair and getting a divorce?

Hell I know people on their 5th marriage.

[bandnerd]

My mother was hated and despised for divorcing my father. People that had been her friends for over 30 years stopped communicating with her. Just stopped calling. People in town gave her nasty looks at the grocery store. They thought she divorced him because he was so ill (battling cancer for 5 years off and on) but what they didn't know was that he had racked up 10's of thousands of dollars in credit card debt behind her back and she couldn't afford to deal with it.

People judge too quickly. My father betrayed my mother in a different sense than adultery. My mom, sister, and I were never able to forgive him for this. But I had no problems with my mom divorcing him--I'd have done the same.

[Karried]

(Disclaimer, purely to stir debate and discussion)

I started this for discussion purposes. One day I was thinking that there are two sides to the story... I've seen couples where one or the other just lets themselves go to pot.. and the spouse ( because of a vow he took 20 years earlier) is the bad guy for leaving....

I don't know of this personally.. and I'm going on 20 years of marriage next August.

[BaconCheeseburgerDeluxe]

I think these days people get married for all the wrong reasons. Most people do not take the time to fully analyze the person they are marrying. They do not ask the question of "Can I go through the fire with this person and still love them just as much as I do now (if not more)?

If you are wanting to bail because someone let themselves go then you have self esteem issues of your own you should address.

You could always start a work out routine together. You could walk, run, lift weights, play sports, anything.

To avoid this you should both set some standards for each other and you will never lose that attraction for one another.

Not to mention "Let's workout together" sounds better then "You are getting fat dear." Granted you do not have to be triathletes but the physical activty will make things much more exciting in the bedroom.

Unless I am mistaken, I think doctors and scientist have proved that couples who stay in shape have a better sex life. You both look good in each others eyes and your stamina is always high.

[Millie]

I think the dissatisfied spouse has a duty to speak up, and loudly. The complacent spouse may not know that there is a problem once the letting onself go, etc. becomes status quo.

If things don't change after a fair amount of time, though, I think that the dissatisfied person should be free to formally end the marriage- the other person gave up on it long ago.

[Patrick]

The Bible states it's okay to divorce if adultery is involved.

[BailJumper]

I hear no mention of kiddos, so, I say if the wife couldn't see it coming she's nuts.

They thought she divorced him because he was so ill (battling cancer for 5 years off and on)

That's completely different.

I'm guessing its mostly the hypocritical Bible thumping crowd that would publicly scorn someone for getting a divorce (while privately engaging in affairs, pornography and molesting alter boys).

[Cake Lady]

Lots of opinions but not a lot of answers to the questions. Illness? Depression? I just stand by the fact that compromising the vows needs to not be taken so lightly in the name of his lack of contentment in the marriage. We all change, and I wouldn't want to see my own husband as being that selfish or shallow. Love grows through the trials of life and things change. It's a beautiful thing.

A lot of emphasis here on the physical intimacy- we all need to do our best in this area to keep things passionate. I still think we need to be very careful with what we think we deserve being different from what we're getting and do our best to work it out and desperately try to save our marriage and explore every option before throwing it all away with the next person who happens to be there.

I think sweatpant girl's getting a bit of a bad rap here. What about her needs for the right kind of help/understanding? Is it not possible they could be worked out through the right kind of intervention? Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but to me, it's what's wrong with the world today.

[bandnerd]

If you read the OP, it says that "sweatpants girl" loses interest in the relationship. She had already mentally checked out of it. Why stay in a marriage where neither party is happy? Maybe I'm too "new fashioned" but hell, we're here for a short time and frankly, I want my time here to be happy!