Streetcar

[Plutonic Panda]

In Buenos Aires, we have a card called "SUBE" that works on every form of public transportation in the city, and in fact, almost the whole country!! It looks like any sort of members/rewards/credit card and you just touch it to the machine, it reads your balance, deducts the tariff, and off you go.

It would be cool if we could work with "Keep It Local" so that the card would act as both a "Keep It Local" card and would be able to work with an electronic system that keeps track of a balance that can be used on all OKC Metro area transit.

In LA, Metro Pass works on a lot of different forms of transit except Amtrak and Metrolink however you can get a month pass for metrolink and have it work on Metro, but not vice versa for some reason.

[LocoAko]

Rode the streetcar in Portland all week long and loved it. And tickets were only $2.50, valid for 2.5 hours and worked on trains and buses. Fantastic system. Makes me excited for the potential ours has!

[RodH]

I don't have time to follow these threads as much as I used to, so sorry if this has already been discussed.

Recently I've been to a lot of cities with streetcar/tram systems including Dublin, Amsterdam, Prague, and Berlin. Something I'm really interested to know is if it's been decided how ticketing and validation are going to work. For instance, will tickets be purchased at kiosks on the street and validated on the car? Also, will any currently planned route sections have dedicated lanes, or are they all in line with vehicle traffic?

Thanks!

The following may not answer all your questions but you may find it interesting. Last month a change order for the streetcar purchase contract was approved by the MAPS 3 Committee. Fare boxes were eliminated from the cars.

"Item No. 1, Fare Box Credit, <$6,500>: At the operator's request, the fare boxes will be removed from the streetcars, which results in a credit to the project."

I suspect that if there is a fare collected it will be done similarly to how it is done in Dallas. With DART, tickets are purchased at kiosks. Passengers are subject to random checks for a valid ticket. I rode six times in one day and was never asked to show verification of a valid ticket. I am not a regular rider so I don't know how strict they are with enforcement.

[catch22]

That's how Portland's system is. It is the honor system with random spot checks by transit officers. There's a hefty fine for riding without a validated fare.

[Jeepnokc]

In LA, Metro Pass works on a lot of different forms of transit except Amtrak and Metrolink however you can get a month pass for metrolink and have it work on Metro, but not vice versa for some reason.

Hong Kong has the Octopus card which is basically a debit touch card that is good for the mass transit but also works at some c-stores.

[Plutonic Panda]

Hong Kong has the Octopus card which is basically a debit touch card that is good for the mass transit but also works at some c-stores.

That's sick! I wish Apple pay would be available for use on transit systems.

[Teo9969]

I really like the idea of incorporating it with Keep It Local. And if you want, you could easily work with OnCue for a Keep It Local promotion (a free fountain drink for every $30 you spend in gas or merchandise?), and that way people all over the Metro would be incentivized to own a Keep It Local card and then could use it on all future transit.

[riflesforwatie]

This might be a dumb question, but do we know yet if the streetcar system will be compatible with the current Embark bus passes? (Alternatively, if they want to go to a touch debit card system for the busses and the streetcar, that would be preferable to the current mag stripe paper passes Embark uses...)

[AnguisHerba]

I've had an exciting opportunity the past few months to ride a number of streetcar systems throughout different cities in Europe and see how these fare systems are implemented. All of them rely on the honor system in some way or another, but some are a lot more easily abused than others. Just a few examples...

In Amsterdam, riders have transit cards that they tap on contactless payment readers as they enter and exit the tram. Paper cards with embedded RFID chips were issued at ticketing kiosks at each station for riders without passes. You could enter only at the front but exit at any other door (there were exceptions to this rule in really busy areas).

In Berlin, if you didn't have a monthly/weekly pass, then you purchased tickets at kiosks outside the train or on the train itself. The kiosks on the trams were a bit old school and only accepted coins, and the fare was selected from a number of physical buttons on the tram kiosk. Once you have a paper ticket, you validate your fare by having your paper ticket stamped by small machines throughout the train upon entering. You could enter and exit at any door. Fare inspectors periodically do spot checks but I never saw any.

In Prague the entire transit system (subway, tram, and bus) operates as it does in Berlin. The validation machines for the metro are upon entering the station rather than the vehicles themselves. You could also purchase the tickets digitally via an app. An inspector checked everyone's tickets the first time I rode, and I saw a local who had to pay the fine (about 32x the normal fare) on the spot.

In Dublin, you either purchased tickets outside the tram at a kiosk at the station, or you had a pass. Pass holders were supposed to tap their cards on contactless kiosks upon arrival at their beginning and ending stations. Ticket holders did not have to validate in any way. Definitely the most liberal use of the honor system of all the trams I've been on.

I've been to more places than this, but all have used systems pretty closely resembling the ones I just talked about. It's been obvious to me during this time that, the more you rely on an honor system, the more efficient your passenger loading/unloading goes. There's just as many ways to implement fare schemes as well, with some cities using a distance-zone system (Berlin), some using a time limit system (Prague), and some allowing for unlimited travel per fare (Dublin, Amsterdam). Trams are a really popular form of transportation in Europe it seems, and it's been fun getting to see what we're going to have in OKC in the future. Part of what makes the system work so well alongside vehicle traffic in Europe is the use of dedicated lanes for tram and public bus traffic. I really hope people embrace the system in OKC, but I don't think it will become hugely popular until it is faster and more convenient than driving a car.

[AnguisHerba]

That's sick! I wish Apple pay would be available for use on transit systems.

This is the case in London, and not just for the Tube (subway). All local and regional mass transit can be paid for with an Oyster card, OR you can pay with Apple Pay. The coolest part is that you can pay per ride, but if you go over the equivalent of what a day pass would've cost, then your rates are capped. Even paying for a bunch of individual rides in one day won't put you over the daily rate! It's so cool.

[Teo9969]

I've had an exciting opportunity the past few months to ride a number of streetcar systems throughout different cities in Europe and see how these fare systems are implemented. All of them rely on the honor system in some way or another, but some are a lot more easily abused than others. Just a few examples...

In Amsterdam, riders have transit cards that they tap on contactless payment readers as they enter and exit the tram. Paper cards with embedded RFID chips were issued at ticketing kiosks at each station for riders without passes. You could enter only at the front but exit at any other door (there were exceptions to this rule in really busy areas).

In Berlin, if you didn't have a monthly/weekly pass, then you purchased tickets at kiosks outside the train or on the train itself. The kiosks on the trams were a bit old school and only accepted coins, and the fare was selected from a number of physical buttons on the tram kiosk. Once you have a paper ticket, you validate your fare by having your paper ticket stamped by small machines throughout the train upon entering. You could enter and exit at any door. Fare inspectors periodically do spot checks but I never saw any.

In Prague the entire transit system (subway, tram, and bus) operates as it does in Berlin. The validation machines for the metro are upon entering the station rather than the vehicles themselves. You could also purchase the tickets digitally via an app. An inspector checked everyone's tickets the first time I rode, and I saw a local who had to pay the fine (about 32x the normal fare) on the spot.

In Dublin, you either purchased tickets outside the tram at a kiosk at the station, or you had a pass. Pass holders were supposed to tap their cards on contactless kiosks upon arrival at their beginning and ending stations. Ticket holders did not have to validate in any way. Definitely the most liberal use of the honor system of all the trams I've been on.

I've been to more places than this, but all have used systems pretty closely resembling the ones I just talked about. It's been obvious to me during this time that, the more you rely on an honor system, the more efficient your passenger loading/unloading goes. There's just as many ways to implement fare schemes as well, with some cities using a distance-zone system (Berlin), some using a time limit system (Prague), and some allowing for unlimited travel per fare (Dublin, Amsterdam). Trams are a really popular form of transportation in Europe it seems, and it's been fun getting to see what we're going to have in OKC in the future. Part of what makes the system work so well alongside vehicle traffic in Europe is the use of dedicated lanes for tram and public bus traffic. I really hope people embrace the system in OKC, but I don't think it will become hugely popular until it is faster and more convenient than driving a car.

The convention center is the unknown variable RE ridership, but as far as residents of the metro area, it will be a long while before you routinely have 10+ people getting on the tram at any given point in time. Perhaps convention goers should be allowed to use the tram for free if they flash their badge (possibly at a small premium charged to the convention). Otherwise, I don't think there should be much emphasis on an honor system in order to increase boarding efficiency at this point.

[Teo9969]

This is the case in London, and not just for the Tube (subway). All local and regional mass transit can be paid for with an Oyster card, OR you can pay with Apple Pay. The coolest part is that you can pay per ride, but if you go over the equivalent of what a day pass would've cost, then your rates are capped. Even paying for a bunch of individual rides in one day won't put you over the daily rate! It's so cool.

That's awesome!

In Argentina, the subway will actually give you a discount after you pass 20 trips in a month and then even further if you pass like 30 trips in a month. I just feel like if you go with a card based system, you can deliver much better benefits to your ridership. Beyond that, if you have a ticket based system like in Berlin, how much does it suck to lose your week/month pass, or to forget to renew it on a day that the fare inspector passes by.

[Cocaine]

Yeah a card based system is much better. I Beijing, Guangzhou, Seoul (?), and Shenzhen go by the same system when you get a discount when you pass a certain number of trips. The discount get's really good at one point that you basically ride for very low rate. Although I don't think OKC could get anything as good as an Oyster Card or MTR's Octopus Card.

[Ross MacLochness]

Someone asked Steve on his chat today about the track that will be laid on EK Gaylord. He said it was going to be on the west side of the street opposite Santa Fe Station and that he couldn't explain why or what the track is for. Even though it's gonna be the first portion of track installed, isn't talked about much... Can anyone explain?

[gman11695]

That's a great point. In many of the renderings of Santa Fe, they have the streetcar going in front of the station on that portion of EK Gaylord, but on the map of the streetcar route, it doesn't show it going in front of the station. Really confused...

[Urban Pioneer]

The track in front of Santa Fe Station is paid for in full by the Federal Transit Administration grant that we received through MAPS 3 matching funds for the station. The goal is to move this complex from simply being a station that Amtrak utilizes to being one that is truly a Intermodal Transit Center. Essentially there are three potential streetcar stops that will ultimately service this facility.

Adding the track in front of the station provides the capacity to-

1. add the Health Sciences Center Streetcar line
2. provide operational flexibility for Red and Blue Lines about to be under construction
3. redundancy to "short-circuit" Red and Blue lines in the event of a problem on the Bricktown Loop
4. Serve future redevelopment of the existing and antiquated Cox Convention Center site

All of this is facilitated through two expensive track switches located at Sheridan/EK Gaylord and Reno/EK Gaylord. They can be activated to shift trains from one track to another by Train to Wayside Control or "TWC" via onboard actuators in the control cabs of the streetcars.

This track also allows for direct service to the CBD as future commuter trains come online without the need for every train to go through Bricktown.

[Ross MacLochness]

The track in front of Santa Fe Station is paid for in full by the Federal Transit Administration grant that we received through MAPS 3 matching funds for the station. The goal is to move this complex from simply being a station that Amtrak utilizes to being one that is truly a Intermodal Transit center. Essentially there are three potential streetcar stops that will ultimately service this facility.

Adding the track in front of the station provides the capacity to

1. add the Health Sciences Center Streetcar line
2. provide operational flexibility for Red and Blue Lines about to be under construction
3. redundancy to "short-circuit" Red and Blue lines in the event of a problem on the Bricktown Loop
4. Serve future redevelopment of the existing and antiquated Cox Convention Center site

All of this is facilitated through two expensive track switches located at Sheridan/EK Gaylord and Reno/EK Gaylord. They can be activated to shift trains from one track to another by Train to Wayside Control or "TWC" via onboard actuators in the control cabs of the streetcars.

Awesome, thanks for the info. So is it gonna be laid in the northbound lane next to the station, or the southbound lane across the street?

[Urban Pioneer]

will tickets be purchased at kiosks on the street and validated on the car? Also, will any currently planned route sections have dedicated lanes, or are they all in line with vehicle traffic?

1. Kiosks are planned as well as cross platform transfer and transit passes between buses and streetcars.

2. Most of the alignment is mixed with traffic with enabling GPS based traffic prioritization a number traffic lights at key intersections. The track by the park and convention center along the park is isolated and in a dedicated right of way for two blocks.

[Urban Pioneer]

Awesome, thanks for the info. So is it gonna be laid in the northbound lane next to the station, or the southbound lane across the street?

Southbound across the street with a mid-block pedestrian crossing. Utilities have been strategically placed to allow for a future northbound track option to be installed.

[Ross MacLochness]

Southbound across the street with a mid-block pedestrian crossing. Utilities have been strategically placed to allow for a future northbound track option to be installed.

That's great! Thanks for the clarification

[HOT ROD]

great info Urban. I'm more interested in the switches than the actual track on EKG because (to me) it shows new route(s) are already being predicted and planned for. Great news.

As the the actual EKG track, wouldn't it have made more sense to build the Northbound side first (since it is immediately next to the station) than the Southbound since Cox will get torn up/redeveloped rendering the southbound stop/track unusable during said period.?

[Urban Pioneer]

great info Urban. I'm more interested in the switches than the actual track on EKG because (to me) it shows new route(s) are already being predicted and planned for. Great news.

As the the actual EKG track, wouldn't it have made more sense to build the Northbound side first (since it is immediately next to the station) than the Southbound since Cox will get torn up/redeveloped rendering the southbound stop/track unusable during said period.?

The southbound track was preferred due to the circulation of the starter lines- east on Sheridan and West on Reno. Going south on EK Gaylord is the most functional. Keep in mind that this track is not slated to be regularly used for the Red and Blue lines to start. The stops on Sheridan and Reno accessed through the Santa Fe Station Pedestrian Tunnel to the backside of the facility will be the primary stops servicing the station for the next few years. Adding additional streetcar lines, modifying how the "main line" operates, or greater and expanded use of Santa Fe Station will affect how quickly that stop enters frequent service.

The old Cox site as well. Presumably that asset might be a redevelopment opportunity in the future. I have heard both a desire to keep it as part of our overall convention center sqf offerings or as a placeholder for a large corporate relocation or expansion. Who knows what the future will bring.

[Lazio85]

The Oklahoma City Council voted Tuesday to formally select Herzog/Stacy and Witbeck to install the rail for the Oklahoma City Streetcar.

Construction is set to begin in January. The OKC Streetcar, which will connect downtown to Bricktown and other districts in the urban core, is funded by the MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar/Transit project.

The Herzog/Stacy and Witbeck bid totals about $50 million, which is about $7 million lower than the projected construction budget.

“The work our residents will start seeing as construction begins is the first step to building a modern, intermodal public transit system for downtown Oklahoma City,” Mayor Mick Cornett said. “The MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board, the streetcar subcommittee, City staff and consultants have put in years of hard work on this project, and it will be exciting to see the finished product.”

Installation of the rail and other infrastructure should take about two years. Brookville Equipment Corporation is building the modern streetcars.

The OKC Streetcar will operate on rails flush with the street in regular traffic lanes, just like a bus or a car. Each streetcar has a driver who follows the same speed limits and traffic signals as other vehicles. Keep an eye out for streetcars when driving, crossing streets on foot and before opening your car door when parking on the street.

Lane and street closures will affect downtown-area traffic during construction.

[ljbab728]

William Crum's article about the contract being awarded.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/552...o_redirect=yes

[jn1780]

How do streetcars interact with intersections and traffic signals? Do traffic signals prioritize approaching streetcars?