Oklahoma liquor laws

[jerrywall]

They also have a good solid two years to adapt. Most business owners would kill for this lead time.

Two years is not very much time to try to sell or close a store in a hostile business environment. But they'll be fine, and their employees can get jobs at Wal-Mart, which we all know pays very well.

[Rover]

Here's a novel idea....maybe the bad liquor stores can step up their game and actually compete using selections, price, location, service, knowledge, marketing and other tools to compete rather than relying on a monopoly protection.

[Rover]

Change is a risk all business owners face. Most don't get years to adapt. Some of the bad stores need to adjust and to stop whining. The good ones will do well.

[Rover]

I did projects for a developer of gas stations in East Germany after the wall came down. What I found was that the operators of the old state run stations didn't compete because they didn't understand anything about customer service, marketing, price competition etc. They hated the market opening to competition for good reason. They weren't willing to adjust and compete. They had been subsidized too long to really understand how to win customers and thrive against competitive pressures.

[barrettd]

Two years is not very much time to try to sell or close a store in a hostile business environment. But they'll be fine, and their employees can get jobs at Wal-Mart, which we all know pays very well.

jerrywall, honest question, no snark (I really appreciate your viewpoint here as a former(?) liquor store owner). What's in it for folks opening a liquor store? It sounds, from a lot of your posts, as if it's a business of thin margins, many hoops through which to jump, red tape, regulations, etc. I wonder why anyone would get into the business in the first place. Your thoughts?

Additionally, as it seems you're still in tune with the liquor store owners, if they are in favor of modernization, why haven't they tried over the last 20 years or so to get legislation written to modernize? It feels as if it took the work of Senator Bice and her group to motivate the liquor store owners to start their own initiative. As a normal consumer, it just strikes me as odd they would complain about all the bad things about 792 and say they want modernization when I've not been aware of any attempts in the past to make the market better for consumers.

Again, I am really asking for your thoughts, not starting an argument at all. I really would like to understand. I was away from Oklahoma for ten years, so I may very well have missed a lot in that time.

[jerrywall]

Oh, I would never recommend anyone open a liquor store, especially now, but not even before, knowing what I do now. Some people seem to think that liquor store owners are some sort of rich fatcats enjoying their booze sales. In all honestly, most of them or mortgaged to the hilt, working 70-80 hours a week for less money than would imagine, and constantly living in fear of a bad week, or an employee messing up and costing them their liquor license. The only good times of the year are the holidays, where you make 40-50% of your annual sales. You're buying non returnable product, plenty of which has a limited shelf life, and you're competing against Byron's and a few other giant stores which are able to buy during the cheap times and stock up and sell lower than your cost during the high times.

The RLAO has been working for a decade to modernize laws. They pushed to get sales on election days. They pushed for cold beer. They've pushed for other stuff. They had an active agenda to get stuff done for a while. What they didn't have was visibility or money. There are less than 100 stores in the RLAO, out of 700+ in the state. Most store owners are too busy and cash poor to be lobbyists or make a lot of noise. They're just trying to feed their families. I could say the same about hobby shops, specialty stores, local hardware stores, non chain restaurants, and more. We cry about the loss of those to Wal-Mart yet celebrate it when it comes to liquor stores, which I don't understand.

[d-usa]

Here's a novel idea....maybe the bad liquor stores can step up their game and actually compete using selections, price, location, service, knowledge, marketing and other tools to compete rather than relying on a monopoly protection.

Went to my local liquor store that I usually frequent. I needed some Apple Jack for an apple pie recipe. They had the big bottle on the shelf and I asked them if they had any of the smaller bottles behind the counter where they keep all the small volume stuff to keep it from getting shoplifted. The reply from the guy working?

"We don't have any Apple Jack, but we have Apple Vodka, Apple Schnapps, Apple Whiskey, Apple Brandy...it's all the same really so just tell me what you want."

And I believe that stores with expert help like that will be the stores that suffer from this.

Stores that will have the staff filled with knowledge and expertise to back up the selection of products they are selling, and who can actually give solid advice if you have a question, will do okay.

[jerrywall]

To give background... btw. My dad got into the liquor retail business after leaving his job of 20 years. Thought it sounded like an ideal opportunity and investment. He could chat with customers, make money, etc. Cashed out is 401k, and put everything he could into the business. Over the years taking out loans against his vehicle, and refinancing the house, during tough times. No vacations, little time off, it aged him 20 years in 10. My mother would be homeless if my dad hadn't had a good life insurance and cancer policy.

The realities of the business are why I expect to see a lot of stores close. I already know of two that have officially announced their closing, trying to get out while they can. We're going to have less options of places to shop from. The only good side is I think the ones that remain will have it better off. I see Edmond going from 30+ to a handful, for example. Maybe the market was too glutted and this had to happen, but I still feel bad for the owners and the employees.

[jerrywall]

Here's a novel idea....maybe the bad liquor stores can step up their game and actually compete using selections, price, location, service, knowledge, marketing and other tools to compete rather than relying on a monopoly protection.

They do compete. As you mention, there are bad stores and good stores. Anyone can open up a store across the street from them. There is no monopoly protection.

[d-usa]

They do compete. As you mention, there are bad stores and good stores. Anyone can open up a store across the street from them. There is no monopoly protection.

Was there really much protection anyway? I think they are at least 20 liquor stores that are less than 5 miles from my house.

Edit: never mind, I read your response wrong.

[d-usa]

....

[barrettd]

Oh, I would never recommend anyone open a liquor store, especially now, but not even before, knowing what I do now. Some people seem to think that liquor store owners are some sort of rich fatcats enjoying their booze sales. In all honestly, most of them or mortgaged to the hilt, working 70-80 hours a week for less money than would imagine, and constantly living in fear of a bad week, or an employee messing up and costing them their liquor license. The only good times of the year are the holidays, where you make 40-50% of your annual sales. You're buying non returnable product, plenty of which has a limited shelf life, and you're competing against Byron's and a few other giant stores which are able to buy during the cheap times and stock up and sell lower than your cost during the high times.

The RLAO has been working for a decade to modernize laws. They pushed to get sales on election days. They pushed for cold beer. They've pushed for other stuff. They had an active agenda to get stuff done for a while. What they didn't have was visibility or money. There are less than 100 stores in the RLAO, out of 700+ in the state. Most store owners are too busy and cash poor to be lobbyists or make a lot of noise. They're just trying to feed their families. I could say the same about hobby shops, specialty stores, local hardware stores, non chain restaurants, and more. We cry about the loss of those to Wal-Mart yet celebrate it when it comes to liquor stores, which I don't understand.

Thanks for the information. You did remind me of the election day law change, about which I'd forgotten.

For the record, I can't say I support local above all else, but I do when the local choice is just as good or better than the chain. Wal-Mart (and Sam's) are a bit different for me, since I have to be concerned with saving money more than almost anything when it comes to grocery shopping, or buying common goods. Local stores usually can't compete with the chains on price, and, unfortunately, that's a big problem for them regardless of the line of business.

I've said before I'll continue to frequent my liquor store, where they know me by now, they know what I like, and they make good recommendations for me to try. They order what I request when they can, they have a wide variety of products, etc. I'm not going to get that at Homeland or Uptown Grocery. If they choose to not install refrigeration, that may make a difference, but that's their gamble to make. However, when I'm shopping for groceries for a family dinner, or just picking up a few things, and I can grab a bottle of wine or some good beer at my grocery store while I'm at it, I'll be very happy to do so. I'll always have to go to the liquor store for actual liquor and higher point beer (which is the majority I usually drink), so unless I quit drinking, grocery stores will never be able to fulfill all my needs in that regard.

You suggested maybe we had too many liquor stores and could afford to lose some. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Yes, it's unfortunate they will close and folks will lose jobs, but I think consumers will be better off, which is more important to me, selfishly.

[TheTravellers]

barrettd's questions reminded me of one I have about liquor stores, for jerry or anybody else - why do so many liquor stores have so much inventory sitting on the floor underneath the wine racks or stacked against the walls up to the ceiling? Some are so bad that it's hard to walk in between all the boxes and it just seems bizarre to have *that* much inventory if they can get daily deliveries. And there are some that have *no* boxes in their aisles and are way neater and easier to navigate. just strange to see such completely different methods (maybe some stores have back rooms and some don't, I guess).

[jerrywall]

barrettd's questions reminded me of one I have about liquor stores, for jerry or anybody else - why do so many liquor stores have so much inventory sitting on the floor underneath the wine racks or stacked against the walls up to the ceiling? Some are so bad that it's hard to walk in between all the boxes and it just seems bizarre to have *that* much inventory if they can get daily deliveries. And there are some that have *no* boxes in their aisles and are way neater and easier to navigate. just strange to see such completely different methods (maybe some stores have back rooms and some don't, I guess).

Yeah, I don't know... we never had boxes on the floor, but we had a decently sized back room, and kept extra inventory there. And really the only time we stocked lots of extra inventory was for the gift sets which were a one time order and had to last from November to January, and loading up right before NYE on Champagne.

Some stores don't do order management well, or only order from one distributor (which is why they'll be out of stuff - some distributors have different inventory levels and if you don't check with all of them, you may not be able to get something). We routinely ordered from all of them, which was great because you could get orders at different times of the day. Of course, a lot of that may go away now.

[Bunty]

Only 5 counties in Oklahoma rejected SQ 792 and in 4 of them it was close. A question like SQ 792 should had been tried 10 years ago. But maybe Wal-Mart was more focused on driving out grocery stores then.

[jerrywall]

And toy stores and hardware stores. In fact toy shops were their main focus.

[ChrisHayes]

Other states allow the sale of full strength beer at grocery stores and there are still liquor stores. Most liquor stores will survive. It's like a previous poster stated, in business there's always risk. I rarely drink, but I'm glad this passed.

[OKCRT]

Only 5 counties in Oklahoma rejected SQ 792 and in 4 of them it was close. A question like SQ 792 should had been tried 10 years ago. But maybe Wal-Mart was more focused on driving out grocery stores then.

It would be a wonderful day if everyone boycotted Walmart. They have done so much damage to this country.

[jerrywall]

Other states allow the sale of full strength beer at grocery stores and there are still liquor stores. Most liquor stores will survive. It's like a previous poster stated, in business there's always risk. I rarely drink, but I'm glad this passed.

I think you're underestimating the impact.

[FighttheGoodFight]

It would be a wonderful day if everyone boycotted Walmart. They have done so much damage to this country.

I haven't stepped inside a walmart in four years. Now I realize for small towns across Oklahoma there aren't really any other options but at least I can try.

[AP]

If anyone is interested in individual county results. http://www.nytimes.com/elections/res...holic-bev-laws

[Bunty]

I haven't stepped inside a walmart in four years. Now I realize for small towns across Oklahoma there aren't really any other options but at least I can try.

Right. Stillwater loves Wal-Mart so much that it has two super ones plus a neighborhood market. And still endlessly waiting on Target to come.

[Bunty]

Other states allow the sale of full strength beer at grocery stores and there are still liquor stores. Most liquor stores will survive. It's like a previous poster stated, in business there's always risk. I rarely drink, but I'm glad this passed.

Those states have had many decades to adjust to new marketing conditions, as long as since prohibition ended in 1933.

[jerrywall]

I haven't stepped inside a walmart in four years. Now I realize for small towns across Oklahoma there aren't really any other options but at least I can try.

Yup. And soon that'll be the case in some towns when it comes to Wine options. YAY!

[OKCRT]

I haven't stepped inside a walmart in four years. Now I realize for small towns across Oklahoma there aren't really any other options but at least I can try.

Exactly,no options for small towns because Walmart killed off many of the ones that were there.