General Education Requirements in College

[AP]

I am having a debate with a co-worker, and would like to see other opinions on the topic. Do you think general education requirements (i.e. comp I & II, History, Gov) are necessary or should we do away with them to lessen the financial burden?

[jerrywall]

I am having a debate with a co-worker, and would like to see other opinions on the topic. Do you think general education requirements (i.e. comp I & II, History, Gov) are necessary or should we do away with them to lessen the financial burden?

They are necessary. College isn't merely about learning a trade. Trade schools exist for that. There's a reason so many jobs/careers want you to have a college degree, and don't even care what degree it is.

There are options for folks who want to lower the burden. For example, taking general education courses at a community college for example. Lots of times it can even be free for folks.

[dankrutka]

I think there's always room to re-think what general education courses should be offered, and of course, the quality of them is vital to what any student takes away from them... AND, in an era of massive debt, we have to find ways to lower costs...

But, yes, general education courses serve a valuable purpose in my mind. I do not think we need to continue with the McDonaldization of education with only cost and efficiency as our core values. We have to function in a democratic society and being well-rounded helps us do that... then we can get on with specialization.

[OkiePoke]

What about those required credits where bowling, wine tasting, travel Europe are classes?

[Pete]

You never, ever know where life will take you and thus a broad education can be very valuable.

Who new my 9th grade typing class would result in one of the most valuable skills that I use for hours every single day?

[Jake]

I agree that having a broad education can be beneficial, but in cases like mine where I've had to take at least 4 to 5 humanities/western history classes for my major (broadcasting), it can be a bit excessive. I know what I want to do, just let me graduate and do it.

[ChrisHayes]

I think a bigger thing is getting away from this assumption that everyone should go to college and that college is necessary for success. Neither is true. Learning skilled trades can lead to success just as much as a degree can. More so in some cases because so many degrees are useless. I took diesel technology at Francis Tuttle from 2014 to May of last year when I completed the program. I work for Hobby Lobby and am making pretty good money. Other people who took the program are making what I am, all the way up to 70,000+ a year in a few cases. Now, it wouldn't hurt to back it up with some college education such as a business degree for opening other doors, but it isn't a necessity. And I think people are being done a disservice in being told a degree is necessary. For a whole host of reasons

[Rover]

Doing away with it is just another attempt at dumbing down our population. Conservatives say get rid of government. But helping the people stay ignorant diffuses the ability of an informed public to stand up to government. I am also shocked that someone wanting to go into broadcasting is against being taught composition and history. Scary.

[Midtowner]

I agree that having a broad education can be beneficial, but in cases like mine where I've had to take at least 4 to 5 humanities/western history classes for my major (broadcasting), it can be a bit excessive. I know what I want to do, just let me graduate and do it.

You don't really need a broadcasting degree to do it. That said, if you want to have a bachelor's degree. What that traditionally means is that you have a broad education, that you're at least somewhat cultured. If you're going into broadcasting, a little bit of culture and understanding your world in a broader context is not unimportant. College doesn't teach you everything about everything, but it certainly equips you with the skills to evaluate the reliability of sources and should leave you with a broad enough education to be able to figure out at least where to start when trying to learn something.

[Jake]

I'm not against history and composition, I'm against having to take African American Dance, Israeli Art Through Film, and History of Typefaces. And since I transferred from Arkansas, I've had to take several of these types of classes again.

But since you seem to know a great deal of what I should learn, I can set up a GoFundMe so you can pay them for me.

[Midtowner]

I'm not against history and composition, I'm against having to take African American Dance, Israeli Art Through Film, and History of Typefaces. And since I transferred from Arkansas, I've had to take several of these types of classes again.

But since you seem to know a great deal of what I should learn, I can set up a GoFundMe so you can pay them for me.

At UCO, this would probably be your major:

https://www.uco.edu/academic-affairs...-profmedia.pdf

OU seems no different.

http://www.ou.edu/content/gaylord/un...ournalism.html

You are not required to take African American Dance, Israeli Art through Film or the History of Typefaces, although all of those might be interesting, you'd never be required to take those. The gen ed requirements seem pretty reasonable. Some basic math and science, some classes on aesthetic analysis and critical inquiry, a government class, 3 hours of American history, a study of a second language OR a cultural analysis class, social and behavioral analysis, health and life skills.

If you're going to be a college graduate, there's an expectation that you're actually an educated person. Quit whining, put your head down and do the work. If you can't hack it, there are other routes into that business which don't involve college.

[Rover]

I'm not against history and composition, I'm against having to take African American Dance, Israeli Art Through Film, and History of Typefaces. And since I transferred from Arkansas, I've had to take several of these types of classes again.

But since you seem to know a great deal of what I should learn, I can set up a GoFundMe so you can pay them for me.

You don't have to take those classes and you know it. If you want to be uncultured, don't know history, or don't understand societal and historical context you damned sure should have no part in broadcasting anything purporting to be important or the truth. Guess you could make cartoons or go into sports broadcasting....or Fox News.

[Midtowner]

If the Ogle girl has to get an edumacation, so does Jake.

[Jake]

Again, I don't disagree that gen-eds like math/science/history etc. arent necessary, the requiremennt that I take several, specifically stated non JMC electives (for my degree track at least, it may be different for others) is frustrating to me.

It's irrelevant anyway, since this is my last semester and I took my capstone last year along with all of my other classes required for my major. All I have left are electives, some of which I wanted to take, weren't even offered this semester (again, frustrating). That's my only beef here. That and maybe the idea that taking an online art history class somehow makes you more cultured, which is obviously hard to quantify. How does one become cultured anyway? Seems contingent on the person and their desire to learn, which I think would follow them after they graduate anyway.

I don't mean to cause an argument, so forgive my tone. It's just my opinion.

[White Peacock]

GenEd + electives aim to make one well-rounded in their education. Universities weren't created to help people get jobs, but to educate them. They're best suited for people enjoy learning and knowing as much as possible. And any university worth its salt will have enough of a variety of electives that you don't have to take (insert specialized topic) if you don't want.

There's no such thing as knowing too much (outside of mafia context).

[Midtowner]

That and maybe the idea that taking an online art history class somehow makes you more cultured, which is obviously hard to quantify. How does one become cultured anyway? Seems contingent on the person and their desire to learn, which I think would follow them after they graduate anyway.

An art history course is a survey sort of course in most cases. It's not designed for you to gain a thorough knowledge of the arts. The design of these classes is more of an introduction to the world of art. Hopefully by the end of the class, you'll have enough of a foundation so that you know something about the subject matter--and if you care to or need to really know something later, you'll hopefully know where to start your research.

[Jake]

An art history course is a survey sort of course in most cases. It's not designed for you to gain a thorough knowledge of the arts. The design of these classes is more of an introduction to the world of art. Hopefully by the end of the class, you'll have enough of a foundation so that you know something about the subject matter--and if you care to or need to really know something later, you'll hopefully know where to start your research.

Which I agree with totally. I think I misspoke and didn't word my point very well earlier. Comp I & II, History, Gov, Art History, etc. are completely rational and good things to have for anyone wanting an education. My only problem has been my experience with Gaylord requiring 3 upper-divion JMC electives (which, since it's in the same wheelhouse, it's not that big of a problem) and 3 upper-division NON-JMC classes, 12 hours of humanities, 6 hours of western culture (finding what is considered "western" and non-western" was a hassle in itself). This compounded by the fact that, for some reason, 2 of my humanites classes didn't trasfer from Arkansas, which meant I had to take those classes again while at OU. (which isn't necessarily anyone's fault, just annoying)

For what I originally went to school for (I actually work doing social media marketing now) everything is very technical. There are so many different software systems, editing software, cameras, equipment, etc. that you need to learn, that I wish at least half of the 12 devoted to humanities could be diverted into other JMC classes that I believe are necessary to be at least competent in that field. (AfterEffects, Post Production, etc./Avid, which is the sofware used by most production studios, isn't even offered as a class at OU). I understand not all majors are like this and that OU isn't a trade school, but if I'm paying to go to school to learn how to do this stuff, at least give me the option to take the classes that I think I feel are necessary to take in order to learn. Which means, yes, I would rather take a post production class to learn Avid than take another humanities class. Sorry, not sorry.

All of my other fellow capstone students shared this idea as well, which we have expressed to the deans, unfortunately to no avail. They have limits to what they can and can't do, so I don't hold it against them though.

[Midtowner]

That's really unfortunate. I was sort of broadcast major-adjacent at UCO. I anchored the TV news program there for a couple of years and in doing so, almost every day, at 1:30PM, I showed up to the news room, figured out my own assignment, shot, wrote, recorded sound and edited a 1.5 minute package ready for the 5PM newscast. Of course in those days, AVID was kind of new--and I was okay with it. Did a documentary on AVID once. It ran for a few years in Edmond. But our editing booths were cuts-only SVHS machines.

If you're still reading this, I'm sorry. The rambling had a point. The point was that the way technology is advancing, it is almost certain that the technical skills you learn will be out of date shortly after you graduate. If I was to go into TV news today, aside from my mad teleprompter skills, I would be totally unfamiliar with the technology.

But that's okay. I didn't attend a trade school. I understand the basics, I am very aware of current events, politics, culture, what's going on in the various communities around OKC. I also understand how to quickly adapt and learn new systems. I'll bet I could do just fine at a news reporting job because my education has prepared me for those sorts of things and supplied me with a high general level of knowledge.

I know nothing about the quality of either OU or UCO's broadcasting schools, but back in my day, UCO's broadcasting program was far and away the best in the state.

[Jake]

Yeah, I was really close to going to UCO. A lot of my friends go/went to UCO and really enjoy it.

I'm not ragging on OU. I love the school, the people, and the relationships I've gained here. I also understand it's very difficult to balance both a comprehensive curriculum in a certain field as well as a balanced, all-encompasing curriculum that benefits students as a whole. It's just infortunate that, in my opinion, certain subjects that I think would have been incredibily beneficial weren't touched on as much as they should have in lieu of broader subjects.

I actually don't even disagree with the original question of "Do you think general education requirements are necessary or should we do away with them to lessen the financial burden?, so I have no idea how I derailed this thread so badly. Whoops! Sorry!

No, general education requirements should definitely not be done away with. However, I think there is a potential discussion about what exactly could/should be defined as a gen-ed and what's necessary and what's not.

[dankrutka]

I'm not against history and composition, I'm against having to take African American Dance, Israeli Art Through Film, and History of Typefaces. And since I transferred from Arkansas, I've had to take several of these types of classes again.

None of these sound like general education requirements. These sound like options or electives which you could choose to take or not... is that not correct?

[dankrutka]

GenEd + electives aim to make one well-rounded in their education. Universities weren't created to help people get jobs, but to educate them.

I think that universities should educate for career AND citizenship (broadly defined). It's not an either/or. It's a fair question to ask, why is this course worthwhile? But, I also don't think every course needs to directly focus on specialized job skills or knowledge. A quality education can prepare students for their careers and living in a diverse and complex society.

[jerrywall]

Also, the assumption that someone KNOWS what they're going to do their whole life? Absurd. I'm in my 40s, and I've had multiple career shifts in my life. My wife was an english major, and she's working (and loving) in HR and accounting. I've never been unemployed or unemployable, and I credit a well rounded education to that. You never know what the future brings.


Now my son decided last year he wanted to be a programmer. I encouraged him (and he is) to attend Vo-Tech (or whatever PC terminology they're using now) instead of enrolling in college, until he's more sure it's what he wants to do. From experience, I know programming sucks, and there is a very specific mindset that's good at it (I am). But it's mind numbing boring work. So I don't want him to waste money pursuing it. He's already changing his mind, so this year at vo-tech is helping him mature before college. Now he wants to (uhg) go to OU.

[jn1780]

In a perfect world, all students should be able to test out of a lot of gen-ed classes since a lot of the material is just reteaching what they should have learned in grades 9-12. But since schools are treated like daycares these days, most don't or even try to test out.

[jerrywall]

In a perfect world, all students should be able to test out of a lot of gen-ed classes since a lot of the material is just reteaching what they should have learned in grades 9-12. But since schools are treated like daycares these days, most don't or even try to test out.

Certainly, both of my sons took all 4 AP course lines. I'd actively encourage that. Or if you're an OKC student I suggest going to OCCC which is free (or Rose State is you're a Del City graduate). Get those free courses out of the way.

[Jim Kyle]

Which means, yes, I would rather take a post production class to learn Avid than take another humanities class. Sorry, not sorry.

All of my other fellow capstone students shared this idea as well, which we have expressed to the deans, unfortunately to no avail. They have limits to what they can and can't do, so I don't hold it against them though.

The problem with teaching the use of a specific tool is that most of what's taught there will be obsolete by the time you make it into any position where you need to use it. And the problem with your alma mater is that it evolved from a quite honest trade school -- The School of Journalism that Henry H. Herbert founded in 1913 -- into a much broader concept that's attempting to be a university, and consequently is more a jack of all trades and master of none.

It still has dedicated staff, and most of them really try. But it has lost such stars as Herbert himself (who taught two generations of would-be journalists to have some concept of ethics), Fayette Copeland, Joe Holland, Walter S. Campbell, and many more. In the mid-fifties the OU J-School turned out dozens of good journalists and at least a couple of good novelists. We didn't have all of the elective requirements that irk you, but we did manage to get a bit of rounding. I'm grateful for the two-hour course in constitutional law that I took to fill one such need, and for the year of economics that taught me to take all economic theory with huge doses of salt. But over the years I've earned my living following a simple four-word formula that Professor Campbell taught me in the five minutes between classes. And I've not seen my diploma for more than 30 years, nor has any employer asked about it (although I did get my first newspaper job on the recommendation of Dr. Copeland).

Good trade schools are essential to the creation of competent craftsmen. Don't expect to get the same benefit from any university. As others have noted in this thread, universities should be for those who love learning for its own sake. And for such as we, no course is superfluous -- nor does education stop when one leaves school. There's a good reason the graduation ceremony is called "commencement."