Streetcar

[Urbanized]

UP or someone else involved, can you explain why the tracks on Broadway will be on the side of the street instead of in the middle? I'm sure there was solid reasoning behind it, but it seems like a huge missed opportunity.

Elimination of unneeded redundant southbound lane, introduction of turn lane on top of track center alignment, preservation of angled parking spots, pedestrian refuge islands in middle of street, all seem like compelling reasons. Broadway seems like the best (only?) opportunity for this. Sorry, I'm sure it has been explained before, but I've missed it if so.

[OKCisOK4me]

I believe the reason to be because the streetcar path is not its own right-of-way. The ROW is the street which pre-exists, therefore, the tracks have to run with the flow of traffic in the outermost lane.

[Urban Pioneer]

OKCisOK4me is generally right. In short, there was resistance to center island median stops. The way the streetcar track alignment is designed is generally in difference to the Public Works Department and the Auto Alley Association.

Public Works wants to move traffic and AA wants parking. The streetcar supposedly will contribute less to traffic congestion by pulling to the curbside portion of the street. As the street is currently designed, that is probably a fair statement.

As a new urbanist myself, I think that Rand Elliot's design should be completely scrapped and the entire stretch redesigned. As it stands this particular street is a hodgepodge of his aesthetically designed influence, the desire by merchants for free parking, the resistance to "back in" parking by Public Works, historical inferences that keep people doggedly committed to a 80' vehicular right-of-way for some reason, and then some traffic models that Public Works says dictates the lane locations.

In short, it's a mess. The streetcar though will make the street more pedestrian friendly and help enable more folks to enter and leave the district without needing a car.

I think the curbside alignment is fine. It is unobtrusive and the impacts to parking were carefully evaluated and generally avoided. A complete street redesign has not been in the cards due to the political machinations of these deferent influences and even if that were enabled the funds do not currently exist to facilitate it.

Remember, there were people so opposed to streetcar on Broadway that we literally threatened to shift the alignment solely to Robinson or Hudson. Auto Alley members voted in majority that they wanted it. Those political forces against it lost out.

[Urbanized]

Unfortunate, I think. I'm obviously no longer involved with the Autmobile Alley district, but I for one would have made a strong case for the center island median stops. Makes way more sense, and probably there more than anywhere in the system.

Regarding the street design, it is not entirely accurate to describe it as "Rand Elliot's." His firm DID commit to paper the design of it, and he has been a tireless advocate of the design; specifically the stamped medallion intersections. But the ideas for that design came from the "Team 2" meetings driven by Ron Norick after the bombing, which re-imagined the district in the wake of the destruction. It was attended by City officials, state officials, representatives of the Urban Land Institute, Automobile Alley stakeholders and volunteers from throughout the community and even the state.

I'm not speaking for him, but I think Rand views himself as the caretaker of a community-driven vision for that neighborhood that came from a very important and difficult time in the city's history. I see lots of really crappy comments here and elsewhere suggesting his protective behavior when it comes to Automobile Alley is ego-based, but - knowing the guy pretty well and having had lots of conversations with him about it - I can assure you that is NOT where his actions arise from in this case.

[Urban Pioneer]

We're just going to have to disagree about Rand. It is my personal opinion that pedestrians in his designs are not a primary consideration. The "stamped" medallion intersections are THE absolute prime example. Thanks for pointing that out! lol Where the street really should be narrower to allow a shorter distance for pedestrians to cross, instead, the huge form of the circle forces the intersections to be the same width as the vehicular zones. This is entirely driven by aesthetics. The rough form of the stampings makes it almost impossible for people with wheelchairs or walkers to cross in those areas. They are really cool to look at from a 10+ story building or an airplane though. lol

I do agree with you that he thinks of himself as a caretaker. How much of that is community-driven and how much of that is his ego is for others to debate. I respect his talent and appreciate a great many buildings he has designed. That doesn't mean he is right on all matters. Pedestrian scale seems to be the big one.

[Urban Pioneer]

And, as I recall, it is these stamped concrete medallions that were partially a driving force behind not having center island stops. The logical location for these stops, at intersections, would have infringed upon the stamped concrete circles. It wasn't the primary driver, but it was a significant aesthetic driver in the curbside design location decision of the streetcar. And from what I recall, Rand was vocal in these recent arguments leading up to that decision as well.

[Urbanized]

We're just going to have to disagree about Rand. It is my personal opinion that pedestrians in his designs are not a primary consideration. The "stamped" medallion intersections are THE absolute prime example...

I never said anything about pedestrians being a primary consideration of his. They obviously are not, and this is a place where I tend to be at odds with him. So, not sure what we are disagreeing about.

But again, the symbolic stamped medallions came from Team 2 brainstorming sessions; not specifically from Rand. It was obviously a time when OKC was much less-attuned to pedestrian issues, and it shows. I agree that the design should be revisited.

[Urbanized]

And by the way, with careful retrofit the stamped medallions could peacefully coexist with curb extensions or center islands. Tracks would not be that different from existing seams/sawcuts. And you are correct that the stamped concrete currently lives in the space where crosswalks SHOULD be. This causes accessibility issues that at some point will have to be addressed by the City. It seems to me like streetcar construction would be the appropriate time to do so, but what do I know?

[Urban Pioneer]

It seems to me like streetcar construction would be the appropriate time to do so, but what do I know?

Agreed. There aren't funds in the streetcar project for this sort of massive corridor overhaul but I wish there were.

All good on all of your other points friend. And thanks for the historical context regarding the "Team 2" group.

[ljbab728]

An update by William Crum on the companies competing to operate our system.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5520178

[warreng88]

ODOT and OKC intersect with streetcar plans

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record September 28, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – As work on the new boulevard downtown nears completion, state and Oklahoma City officials are finding their schedules intersecting at the MAPS 3 streetcar route.

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation plans to release the former Interstate 40 crosstown to City Hall in January, department spokeswoman Brenda Perry said. After I-40 was realigned closer to the Oklahoma River almost four years ago, ODOT began working with City Hall to lower the road to grade and rebuild it as a main artery through the Core to Shore redevelopment area.

As that project nears completion, City Hall is also preparing to lay rail for a $131 million streetcar route through downtown, one of several projects under the MAPS 3 sales tax. Following feedback from businesses and civic leaders in the area, City Hall decided on a 4.5-mile route to link to a new convention center near the boulevard.

The rail will be laid in rights of way, not the street itself. However, those areas are also held by ODOT.

“It looks like our project needs to be complete so the streetcar can function properly,” Perry said. “We are working very closely with the city. All along the process, we’ve been trying to avoid them (city crews) being at the exact same location so that we’re not in each other’s way for safety reasons and ease of work.”

“We’re really trying to make that happen – get in there and out – so we can let the city do its work,” she said.

In a recent MAPS 3 pre-bid meeting for the streetcar, city officials suggested possible conflicts between overlapping schedules of the state and city. The streetcar corridor will not be available until November 2017, city officials said at the meeting, and the Bricktown loop part of the line must be completed for testing in March the next year, leaving only four months to complete a critical section of the route near the new boulevard.

A reference during the city committee meeting also highlighted the need for coordinating pavement joints at the boulevard-Hudson Avenue intersection with the city’s design team, suggesting that crews will have to come in quickly after ODOT.

MAPS 3 project manager David Todd confirmed Tuesday that no taxpayer money will be wasted by having to backtrack on the route; once rail is laid, it will stay in place.

“The streetcar will take nearly two years to complete, and we’ve already put in the contract document that the contractor will work on that piece of the alignment last,” Todd said. “We won’t build anything there until they (ODOT crews) are finished.”

[Urban Pioneer]

Reading between the lines here... basically no MAPS 3 taxpayer monies will be wasted but Federal tax monies appropriated to ODOT will be. "Coordinating pavement joints" and "we won't build anything until ODOT is finished" means that the City will basically be tearing up brand new concrete to install the rails across the Boulevard on Hudson.

I am glad Brian Brus got all of this on the record. The timeliness towards ODOT getting out of the way is essential to our schedule. It is just a shame that they won't let the City on the project site crossing Hudson until after the entire roadway section is completed. An rediculous waste of concrete and steel.

[Urban Pioneer]

"The rail will be laid in rights of way, not the street itself. However, those areas are also held by ODOT."

Except where the alignment does directly completely cross the new boulevard north/south on Hudson on its way to the Maintenance Facility. A major switch is also planned at this intersection. This is PR spin from somebody trying to protect ODOT.

[Bullbear]

Reading between the lines here... basically no MAPS 3 taxpayer monies will be wasted but Federal tax monies appropriated to ODOT will be. "Coordinating pavement joints" and "we won't build anything until ODOT is finished" means that the City will basically be tearing up brand new concrete to install the rails across the Boulevard on Hudson.

I am glad Brian Brus got all of this on the record. The timeliness towards ODOT getting out of the way is essential to our schedule. It is just a shame that they won't let the City on the project site crossing Hudson until after the entire roadway section is completed. An rediculous waste of concrete and steel.

I agree it is ridiculous and wasteful for them to built and then OKC have to dig up and basically redo the sections. However on the flip side I wonder if OKC laid the track and then ODOT did their work, how badly they would manage to mess up the tracks and the project.

[bradh]

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation plans to release the former Interstate 40 crosstown to City Hall in January,

Gonna be tough to do when the main section through C2S hasn't even begun construction yet.

[shawnw]

And won't be done until late 2018, right? Which is when the streetcar is supposed to get going? Something is going to have to give.

[bradh]

Herzog was the apparent low bidder this morning, bid was just over $48 million. They are an experienced rail contractor, built Phoenix's light rail I believe.

[Urban Pioneer]

This is a MAJOR moment as it puts the program under budget and allows us flexibility to consider important add/alternates that improve system function and help minimize long term operational costs. Keep in mind, this was the largest contract in the streetcar and hub program.

[shawnw]

Great job UP and the rest of the committee. Appreciate what you do.

[BoulderSooner]

I believe this came in over 8 mil under the budget.

[LakeEffect]

https://www.okc.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=5929

$48,906,586.61 after Alternate 1 ($50,000,586.61 base bid).

[Spartan]

Is there a way to use the savings to ensure a future expansion? I mean if someone highly placed can go on a renegade and announce an unfunded fairgrounds arena, why not go ahead and just announce a mostly-unfunded extension up Classen and then actually seed it with the $8 million saved from Phase 1.

Then again any extra money is likely to get gobbled up by the CC.

[Spartan]

apologies dbl

[Anonymous.]

Allocate savings into betterment of the proposed shelters @ the stops.

[catch22]

Allocate savings into betterment of the proposed shelters @ the stops.

Or proactively buy extra spare parts for the streetcar vehicles. If the company that produces the vehicles were to ever go out of business, the city would be in a bidding war with other cities for any remaining spare parts. Also, as models evolve part commonality can erode, thus potentially leaving shortage of parts in the future.