Odot

[HangryHippo]

I would rather have a commuter rail into downtown before we add HOV/Express Lane personally.

This.

[gman11695]

Hey I was just thinking out loud :/

[rte66man]

Dirt berm's take up a lot of ROW, no? That could work. It'd certainly help for ice storms. ODOT always seems to do that anyways, vs. Texas seems to love build bridges.

See your own statement. A 5 level here would be a NIGHTMARE in the winter

[Plutonic Panda]

See your own statement. A 5 level here would be a NIGHTMARE in the winter

It works in Denver and in Dallas.

[riflesforwatie]

It works in Denver and in Dallas.

Different weather challenges. Ice storms are essentially unheard of in Denver (<1 freezing rain day per year on average). While ice storms do occur in Dallas, they are only about 2/3rds as likely there as they are in central Oklahoma.

[HangryHippo]

Different weather challenges. Ice storms are essentially unheard of in Denver (<1 freezing rain day per year on average). While ice storms do occur in Dallas, they are only about 2/3rds as likely there as they are in central Oklahoma.

Serious question - is there no heating element they could embed to help battle the icing on the flyover ramps? Does anything like that exist?

[riflesforwatie]

Serious question - is there no heating element they could embed to help battle the icing on the flyover ramps? Does anything like that exist?

I know FHWA has studied various methods. Most were unsuccessful (they would break, or trained personnel couldn't be kept on staff to monitor or maintain the system, etc..), but some systems did work for a time. Don't know if they were considered cost-effective or not. If you think about it, a bridge heating system is going to be outside the typical remit of a state DOT, and my guess is that's why these sorts of systems haven't been widely deployed.

[Plutonic Panda]

Different weather challenges. Ice storms are essentially unheard of in Denver (<1 freezing rain day per year on average). While ice storms do occur in Dallas, they are only about 2/3rds as likely there as they are in central Oklahoma.

So OKC is just special again. No other city is like it or has problems and this can't be built in OKC because of that.

Chicago is also getting a five stack in their downtown. I believe Minneapolis/St. Paul area has one. Reno, Nevada might be getting one. Kansas city has one. Milwaukee has one. Columbus, Ohio has one. Atlanta has them. Nashville has a couple four levels. St. Louis has them. Springfield, Missouri is getting one. Little Rock, Arkansas is getting one. Baton Rouge has one. New York City has one and several other notable flyovers.

Four levels aren't much different than five levels though with more ramps, the height will usually be the same unless it's an ambitious interchange like the high-five. I just don't buy into the "winter will make it impossible" line. OKC is not unique in how many ice storms it gets and I have lived in Dallas and experienced more ice storms there than I did in OKC. It would be like any other bridge in the state that usually gets taken care of the next morning with salt after an ice storm happens.

[riflesforwatie]

So OKC is just special again. No other city is like it or has problems and this can't be built in OKC because of that.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". Incidentally, for those who are interested, ice storms are most common in the northeast US, with a secondary max in the Midwest (OH/IN/IL), and a tertiary max in Oklahoma's vicinity. I won't speculate on the differences between ice storm impacts in regions accustomed to larger amounts of other wintry precipitation than Oklahoma.

Of course, like any other decision in transportation infrastructure, the decision of what sort of interchange to build requires a cost-benefit analysis. The High Five sees half a million cars per day. The Dallas and Amarillo Junctions each see somewhere in the neighborhood of half that, or less. The 39th Expressway/Hefner Pkwy/Will Rogers Pkwy has less than either of those, and the Belle Isle Bridge and NW Expressway is 20% or less of the volume of the High Five. For reference, the High Five was $260 million in the early 2000s (roughly $280 million today). The most expensive ODOT interchange (which includes multiple bidded contracts), is the I-235/I-44 rebuild, at about $150 million over 10 years. (Most expensive overall project is the I-40 Crosstown, almost $600 million in today's dollars, but it consists of ~5 miles of roadway and something like 5 or 6 interchanges, depending on how you count them.)

[Plutonic Panda]

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data". Incidentally, for those who are interested, ice storms are most common in the northeast US, with a secondary max in the Midwest (OH/IN/IL), and a tertiary max in Oklahoma's vicinity. I won't speculate on the differences between ice storm impacts in regions accustomed to larger amounts of other wintry precipitation than Oklahoma.

Of course, like any other decision in transportation infrastructure, the decision of what sort of interchange to build requires a cost-benefit analysis. The High Five sees half a million cars per day. The Dallas and Amarillo Junctions each see somewhere in the neighborhood of half that, or less. The 39th Expressway/Hefner Pkwy/Will Rogers Pkwy has less than either of those, and the Belle Isle Bridge and NW Expressway is 20% or less of the volume of the High Five. For reference, the High Five was $260 million in the early 2000s (roughly $280 million today). The most expensive ODOT interchange (which includes multiple bidded contracts), is the I-235/I-44 rebuild, at about $150 million over 10 years. (Most expensive overall project is the I-40 Crosstown, almost $600 million in today's dollars, but it consists of ~5 miles of roadway and something like 5 or 6 interchanges, depending on how you count them.)

So now you're changing from ice storms to traffic counts.

Out of every single example I gave you of a four or five stack, you choose the High-five, one of the most ambitious engineering marvels regarding highway construction in the 21st century, as well as being in one of the largest cities I listed, to use for traffic counts VS. roads in OKC. Gotcha.

Hopefully when the Kilpatrick/SH-74 flyovers are completed, we will have a full 4 stack instead of a half 4 stack.

I want to add to this, I'm not trying to be argumentative here with you, it is just the same old excuse, "ICE STORMS!!!!!!!!" get's really old.

BTW, Amarillo is getting 2 four to five stack interchanges. Surely the traffic counts aren't that much higher than OKC's.

[NoOkie]

Springfield, Missouri is getting one.

Kind of curious where they're getting one. Springfield is tiny compared to everything else you're talking about. I can't think of a place one would make sense, except maybe on the SE corner of town. And my guess is it would be dictated by the geography of the area more than anything.

[Plutonic Panda]

Kind of curious where they're getting one. Springfield is tiny compared to everything else you're talking about. I can't think of a place one would make sense, except maybe on the SE corner of town. And my guess is it would be dictated by the geography of the area more than anything.

It's a four stack. Not fully completed yet. Almost the same status as the Hefner Parkway/Kilpatrick Tollway interchange.

I believe they are getting one or perhaps even two along the SH 65 and 60.

[rte66man]

It's a four stack. Not fully completed yet. Almost the same status as the Hefner Parkway/Kilpatrick Tollway interchange.

I believe they are getting one or perhaps even two along the SH 65 and 60.

There should only be the one that is partially complete on the SE side of Springfield at the junction of US60 and US65. Although there is room for one at the I44/US65 junction, I doubt traffic counts justify more than the one flyover already built (NB 65 to WB 44)

[Plutonic Panda]

There should only be the one that is partially complete on the SE side of Springfield at the junction of US60 and US65. Although there is room for one at the I44/US65 junction, I doubt traffic counts justify more than the one flyover already built (NB 65 to WB 44)

It isn't fully finished, right? Last time I saw, they had nubs extending out on a couple of the ramps for future connections.

[Plutonic Panda]

New signs to alert slow drivers to stay the hell out of the left lane are coming in January.

At its Tuesday, Sept. 6 meeting, the Oklahoma Transportation Commission approved a planned Oklahoma Department of Transportation project to place signs on I-35 and I-40 statewide to encourage motorists to use the right lane and not impede left lane traffic. The project to install these signs will use federal funds and is expected to go to bid in early 2017.

- https://ok.gov/triton/modules/newsro...ticle_id=25261

[Plutonic Panda]

New 8yr plan out

Here is the map to OKC metro: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8...ision4_map.pdf

[Plutonic Panda]

I want to add, it appears the first phases of what I hope is the I-44/I-40 reconstruction begin in 2024. That is a long ways away, but hopefully the economy will stabilize, Hilary Clinton will win and add new funding towards highways as she has said, and maybe this will be pushed up! haha

This interchange isn't in dire need such as accidents that occur on 240/35 and 44/235, but it sure would be nice to have a nice shiny five stack for people passing through to see in OKC.

They are also finally widening I-35 between I44 and I40.

[OKCRT]

New 8yr plan out

Here is the map to OKC metro: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/cwp-8...ision4_map.pdf

Horrible bottleneck east/west north/south bound I-40 & I-44. Something needs to be done about this. It's maddening! These bridges need to have twice as many lanes. Esp west bound I-40 over 44.

[Plutonic Panda]

Horrible bottleneck east/west north/south bound I-40 & I-44. Something needs to be done about this. It's maddening! These bridges need to have twice as many lanes. Esp west bound I-40 over 44.

In a perfect world it would be nice to see them continue the 10 lanes to Yukon with 2 of those being HOV lanes. But I agree, these new bridges can't come soon enough. I really hope ODOT will remove the left exits and move them to the right side of the road and use flyovers.

Though traffic was a breeze compared to LA, I did notice a lot more congestion happening around the metro than there used to be and the trend is only getting worse. So enjoy the low traffic while it's there(or not there).

[Snowman]

Horrible bottleneck east/west north/south bound I-40 & I-44. Something needs to be done about this. It's maddening! These bridges need to have twice as many lanes. Esp west bound I-40 over 44.

Most of the time traffic is not flowing smoothly there though the bridges are not the main issue, the issue is usually a car wreck or i44 is jammed from roughly the airport up to where Hefner Parkway splits off it (or further one or both directions); how wide the bridges are makes little difference in either case. Occasionally the i40 westbound off ramps get so full that it begins to slow the average speed of i40, again not something the bridge width alone would help.

[flyfisher07]

I hope you're right, it would be nice to see a completely new I40/I44 interchange. Not sure that's what we are going to get based on past history though. On the I240/I35 and I44/I235 interchanges wasn't there some public involvement meetings to discuss potential build out before those projects were added to the 8 year plan? I would figure the public involvement would happen first to determine the final option before costs/schedules were added to the plan, but that's just me. Still nice to hope for the best though!

[rte66man]

I hope you're right, it would be nice to see a completely new I40/I44 interchange. Not sure that's what we are going to get based on past history though. On the I240/I35 and I44/I235 interchanges wasn't there some public involvement meetings to discuss potential build out before those projects were added to the 8 year plan? I would figure the public involvement would happen first to determine the final option before costs/schedules were added to the plan, but that's just me. Still nice to hope for the best though!

I'm guessing that there wasn't one because it doesn't affect surrounding neighborhoods like many of the other projects that ODOT has meetings for (no additional ROW).

[Plutonic Panda]

Douglas/I-40 interchange meeting was held and here are the alternatives

Alternative 1:

Alternative 1 - Single Point Urban Interchange (SPUI) -- A Single Point Urban Interchange is a basic diamond interchange with a single signalized central intersection in the center of the bridge. The Douglas Boulevard traffic along with the I-40 ramp traffic will converge to a single point utilizing the single set of traffic signals. The SPUI interchange accommodates large traffic volumes efficiently with minimal right-of-way impacts. I-40 will be improved to a six-lane facility. Through the interchange, Douglas Boulevard will consist of six through lanes, dual left-turn lanes, and right-turn lanes where needed. Entrance and exit ramp lanes will also be constructed along I-40. Collector-distributor roads will be removed and will not be re-constructed. See attached graphic of SPUI.

Alternative 2:

Alternative 2 - Tight Urban Diamond Interchange (TUDI) with Ramp Flyover – A Tight Urban Diamond Interchange is an interchange that compresses a standard diamond interchange. This design includes all four interchange ramps, as well as the option of adding a future flyover ramp for northbound Douglas Boulevard traffic destined for westbound I-40. The compressed interchange with the ramp flyover accommodates large traffic volumes efficiently by removing a heavy left turn movement from the interchange and the resulting footprint requires minimal right-of-way. I-40 will be improved to a six-lanes facility. Through the interchange, Douglas Boulevard will consist of six through lanes, dual left-turn lanes, and right-turn lanes where needed. Upon construction of the northbound to westbound ramp flyover, the northbound to westbound left-turn lanes on Douglas will be removed. Entrance and exit ramp lanes will also be constructed along I-40. Collector-distributor roads will be removed and will not be re-constructed. See attached graphic of TUDI.

Alternative 3:

Alternative 3 - Cloverleaf Interchange – The existing cloverleaf will be completely reconstructed to accommodate widening I-40 to a six-lane facility. All ramps and both collector-distributor roads will be reconstructed. Through the interchange, Douglas Boulevard will consist of four through lanes, two lanes for loop ramp weaving, two additional lanes located in the median which can be used in the future for left turning traffic, and entrance and exit lanes where needed. Entrance and exit ramp lanes will also be constructed along I-40. See attached graphic of the new cloverleaf.

ODOT: https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and.../20170117.html

I prefer Alt. 2 as the flyover would allow for more efficient movements although it should be noted they flyover isn't guaranteed just something ODOT said was possible in the future. That being said I either go with Alt. 2 as my first choice or Alt. 1 as second. I'm not fan of the cloverleaf because I hate cloverleafs and the fact that Douglas won't be six dedicate through lanes as it should.

[Plutonic Panda]

Guthrie Viaduct project starts construction next week.

https://ok.gov/triton/modules/newsro...ticle_id=28695

[Plutonic Panda]

I will be keeping my eye on this project. I'd love to see I-35 expanded to 10 lanes from DTOKC to Norman which would allow that freeway to not have to be touched for another 50+ years.

That isn't going to happen anytime soon however and it appears ODOT is proposing improvements from 5th St. in Moore to Main St. in Norman. They recently completed several various improvements in along this stretch of I-35.

Aside from any mainline capacity increases, here is my wish list. I'd like to see service roads made one way and Texas turnarounds added at each light. I'd like to see right hand flyovers for Shields and Flood Ave. interchanges. I'd like the Shields/I-35 interchange to have the entire thing reconstructed, but I would keep the Flood Ave. ramps for future HOV direct connects(whenever HOV lanes are added to I-35).

I'd like to see SH-37 interchange realigned and straightened. SW 19th St bridge needs to be expanded for six through lanes and ODOT really wanted to do a good job they could add a flyover for east bound 19th St. traffic wanting to take north bound I-35. Both of those interchanges should have Texas turnaround.

If they do propose to completely reconstruct the SW 4th interchange, I will be excited to see the proposals. That could make for a very expensive and complex interchange depending on how ODOT wants to go about it.

They do include the future SW 34th St. bridge which I think preliminary work starts this year on that.

I'd also like to see auxiliary lanes added from SW 4th to SW 19th. Nearly every Exit and on ramp needs extended merging room.

A big one is they will unveil the alternatives for Indian Hills Rd. Bridge replacement. That thing is a clusterf@ck along with the Robinson interchange. Both of those will need serious reconstruction and reconfiguration projects if one way service roads are proposed.

This could make for an exciting project though even without any mainline widenings it could still be a fairly significant undertaking and might warrant its own thread. I'll keep my eyes peeled on this one.

Here is the link from the PR: https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/ne...ticle_id=31275

The meeting is set for April 27th which all of the presented material will be available.

Here is the meeting packet info:

The purpose of this study is to identify possible improvements for all roadway users that increase capacity, safety, access, and connectivity. Goals of the study include: understanding traffic operations and potential for improvements within the existing footprint, improving frontage road functionality, optimizing interchange efficiency and safety, providing appropriate local access and connectivity to the supporting roadway network, and reducing the number of accidents within the corridor.

As part of our efforts to keep the public informed of this study and obtain public input, a Public Open House has been scheduled for Thursday, April 27, 2017 from 4 PM to 7 PM at The Station at Central Park, 700 S. Broadway, Moore, Oklahoma. The purpose of the Open House is to inform the public of the purpose and goals of the study and obtain public input on problems and potential solutions within the study corridor. The Open House will be a come and go event, no formal presentation will be conducted. Informational boards and displays will be available for the public to review and provide input. Study team members will be on hand to assist and answer questions from the public

https://www.ok.gov/odot/Programs_and.../20170427.html