Maps 4 Neighborhoods

[dankrutka]

It's right, Boren's plan is bad.

It's certainly not ideal to do this as a sales tax, but education in Oklahoma is in absolute crisis with no other options. No one in the legislature or public has addressed this issue over years and I can't see what else can be done.

Anyway, I think Pete's point is that it's a disingenuous ad. You can disagree with the policy, but it's important to make honest arguments.

[Laramie]

We can no longer put Education on the back burner. This isn't a referendum on the future of MAPS vs. Boren's .01 cent sales tax proposal to boost public education.

The State of Oklahoma (Legislature) continues to show that its priorities doesn't include Education. The lottery was suppose to help cure our education woes; however, the state decided to cut education funding once the lottery funds started to pad the state's education coffers. The end result, we didn't see a significant increase in education funding once the lottery came into play.

I don't give a rats ass about Oklahoma having the highest sales tax in the U.S. We are now in crisis mode to keep quality teachers in Oklahoma and funding at a moderate pace at best. Oklahoma has slipped from 44th in education funding to 48th/49th over the last 30 years. Put that on the Oklahoma legislature. We need to continue the momentum with MAPS & support Boren's one cent permanent sales tax to fund education.

Let's not cut future education funding once the sales tax (passes) & lottery funds are in place.

[bradh]

It's certainly not ideal to do this as a sales tax, but education in Oklahoma is in absolute crisis with no other options. No one in the legislature or public has addressed this issue over years and I can't see what else can be done.

Anyway, I think Pete's point is that it's a disingenuous ad. You can disagree with the policy, but it's important to make honest arguments.

I know, it just sucks and I'm pissed about it. It's a bad plan to fix bad legislation.

[LocoAko]

I know, it just sucks and I'm pissed about it. It's a bad plan to fix bad legislation.

Do you think it'll make the legislature even more complacent about doing anything about it since, if it passes, they can point to this as their "fix"?

[SoonerDave]

We can no longer put Education on the back burner. This isn't a referendum on the future of MAPS vs. Boren's .01 cent sales tax proposal to boost public education.

The State of Oklahoma (Legislature) continues to show that its priorities doesn't include Education. The lottery was suppose to help cure our education woes; however, the state decided to cut education funding once the lottery funds started to pad the state's education coffers. The end result, we didn't see a significant increase in education funding once the lottery came into play.

I don't give a rats ass about Oklahoma having the highest sales tax in the U.S. We are now in crisis mode to keep quality teachers in Oklahoma and funding at a moderate pace at best. Oklahoma has slipped from 44th in education funding to 48th/49th over the last 30 years. Put that on the Oklahoma legislature. We need to continue the momentum with MAPS & support Boren's one cent permanent sales tax to fund education.

Let's not cut future education funding once the sales tax (passes) & lottery funds are in place.

My gripe in ALL this is that we see those ranking numbers, but tend to overlook the fact that Oklahoma has a state education appropriation in excess of $1.8 BILLION, but can't seem to find or fund priorities properly. That's staggering to me.

I wish it were as simple as not caring about the overall sales tax rate. Good or bad, that's something that business look at (among many other items) for quality of life when moving companies in or out. Whatever the motives, a high sales tax rate is never a positive. And, obviously, a battered education system is no great advertisement, either.

I know we need to get our teachers more money. For heaven's sake, I'm *married* to a teacher and I know that kicking them in the teeth is practically a sport in this state. But I also know it's also taken years for us to get into this nightmare, and it's going to take something more than a sales tax or a one-shot funding PR move to get out of it. I wish we (I mean 'we' poetically, not referring to anyone in particular) could get past the knee-jerk/media reaction that puts three, four, five-plus decades of blame on whomever happens to be in power. The issues are structural and institutional, and cross party and ideological boundaries.

[bradh]

Do you think it'll make the legislature even more complacent about doing anything about it since, if it passes, they can point to this as their "fix"?

Great point, and probably

[reverend]

Do you think it'll make the legislature even more complacent about doing anything about it since, if it passes, they can point to this as their "fix"?

This is why I am voting no. The legislature needs to get their $#!% together and fix this issue, not saddle the people of Oklahoma with a regressive sales tax to clean up their mess. Sends the message that if they cut education funding, then the people will fix it themselves. The legislature and the governor need to figure this out.

[dankrutka]

This is why I am voting no. The legislature needs to get their $#!% together and fix this issue, not saddle the people of Oklahoma with a regressive sales tax to clean up their mess. Sends the message that if they cut education funding, then the people will fix it themselves. The legislature and the governor need to figure this out.

Which means that education issues will likely go without being addressed, no? There's no good reason to think this legislature will support public education... There are a lot of legislators that don't believe in public education at all. I've lobbied at the capitol and it's dumbfounding how uninformed, ideological, and partisan a lot of these legislators are...

(P.S. Get out and support some of the teachers running for state office! Having educators represented should at least shift the conversation some)

[jerrywall]

The lottery was suppose to help cure our education woes; however, the state decided to cut education funding once the lottery funds started to pad the state's education coffers.

Just to be clear, constitutionally they COULD NOT cut education to offset lottery revenues. There is even a review process to make sure this isn't the case. This was a second SQ that was voted in along with the lottery. The fact of the matter is, the lottery was oversold as a solution, and generates so little money it's meaningless. Like 1% of our education budget.

[jerrywall]

(P.S. Get out and support some of the teachers running for state office! Having educators represented should at least shift the conversation some)

Is this a good time to point out that a large percentage of our legislature is already made up of former teachers and administrators, including Kern?

[warreng88]

My mother was a teacher for 30 years in various school district in Oklahoma and one thing she brought up is Oklahoma has a ridiculous amount of superintendents. Supers make six figures each and Oklahoma has the same amount as Florida and Florida has five times the population. That would be a big way to cut back, by consolidating rural school districts and getting rid of so many supers. Just a thought.

[reverend]

Well a bad idea is not a better solution than no idea. We need to light a fire under the legislature. I have written to my house rep (Jason Dunnington, District 88) and to my senator (Ervin Yen, District 40) about the need to take action. If the people of the whole state will hold the legislature accountable then mybe something will get done. I have hope. I just think that our sales tax in OKC is already a bit high, but have been OK with it because we have funded civic projects. But what happens when the state decides to slash ODOT's budget and someone says we need a sales tax to pay for roads and bridges? A sales tax to pay for OHP? Where does it stop? Do we just keep adding the regressive sales taxes to the customers of Oklahoma? Will we stop funding MAPs type proposals just to do the things the state should be doing in the first place? Sorry, don't mean to rant...

[jerrywall]

That's my concern about an increase in state sales taxes. It could hurt local cities ability to pass sales tax issues. Edmond voters have always been supportive of their schools, and OKC has had decent support for MAPS projects. I would hate for that to change.

[dankrutka]

I agree with everyone that a regressive sales tax is problematic. I hope Oklahomans can light a fire under the legislature. Kansas just pushed back on years of cuts in the failed belief that tax cuts would lead to massive business migration to the state (Laffer Curve economics). Of course, business did not improve and state had to dramatically cut funding for education, infrastructure, etc. Several of the legislative leaders of the failed economic movement just lost their primaries. I'd love to see Oklahoma's voters do the same... But I'm not optimistic. That's why I've asked family and friends to support the sales tax. I don't see anything being done without it. I'd love to proven wrong!

[BoulderSooner]

My mother was a teacher for 30 years in various school district in Oklahoma and one thing she brought up is Oklahoma has a ridiculous amount of superintendents. Supers make six figures each and Oklahoma has the same amount as Florida and Florida has five times the population. That would be a big way to cut back, by consolidating rural school districts and getting rid of so many supers. Just a thought.

Actually it is way worse than that.

Oklahoma has 520 school districts.

Florida has 74.

Think about those numbers.

[jerrywall]

Actually it is way worse than that.

Oklahoma has 520 school districts.

Florida has 74.

Think about those numbers.

Not saying there's not some waste, but let's say all the superintendents are making 200k a year (they're not), and we cut that number in half; we'd save 1.8% of the state education budget. It's not nothing, but doesn't really get to the core of the funding issues.

[BoulderSooner]

Not saying there's not some waste, but let's say all the superintendents are making 200k a year (they're not), and we cut that number in half; we'd save 1.8% of the state education budget. It's not nothing, but doesn't really get to the core of the funding issues.

there is 0 reason for us to have 7x the number of school districts of florida ...

but even using texas a the standard they have 1k districts give or take ... using that metric based on population we should have 140 give or take (even adjusted for land area we should have 1/4 the districts of texas which would cut ours in half )

that would save us millions and millions a year in admin costs ..

[Bellaboo]

Not saying there's not some waste, but let's say all the superintendents are making 200k a year (they're not), and we cut that number in half; we'd save 1.8% of the state education budget. It's not nothing, but doesn't really get to the core of the funding issues.

For a lot of those supers you have assistants, secretaries and office space that comes along with them. The panhandle has 3 county superintendents, with a miniscule population. Why ?

[SoonerDave]

Not saying there's not some waste, but let's say all the superintendents are making 200k a year (they're not), and we cut that number in half; we'd save 1.8% of the state education budget. It's not nothing, but doesn't really get to the core of the funding issues.

But for (nearly?) all superintendents, there's an assistant superintendent, and that super has a staffer, and the assistant super has a staffer, and then in still other districts there's a grade-specific superintendent, and so on, and so on. It isn't just 1 super x 520 districts. And every time someone comes along and begs, pleads, hints, suggests that we need to consolidate, someone from one of these microscopic school districts that skews that per-capita spending average crawls out of the woodwork and screams foul. Very frustrating.

That overarching bureaucracy is part of why we can't spend $1.8B in state appropriations properly, and why no amount of lottery winnings, sales taxes, or magic pixie dust will fix the problems. We need a long-term solution that includes a lot of complicated variables.

[jerrywall]

For a lot of those supers you have assistants, secretaries and office space that comes along with them. The panhandle has 3 county superintendents, with a miniscule population. Why ?

I agree somewhat, but I saw a report on okpolicy or somewhere that said even if we lowered our administrative costs (as a percentage of educational spending) to match the lowest in the country, we would save about 145 million a year. That's nice, but it doesn't make much of a dent or increase to our 2.7 billion dollar education budget. If we put the entire amount into instruction, we would move up one spot in the rankings.

[bradh]

I agree somewhat, but I saw a report on okpolicy or somewhere that said even if we lowered our administrative costs (as a percentage of educational spending) to match the lowest in the country, we would save about 145 million a year. That's nice, but it doesn't make much of a dent or increase to our 2.7 billion dollar education budget. If we put the entire amount into instruction, we would move up one spot in the rankings.

Not to get even more sidetracked from MAPS 4 Neighborhoods, we're not really in a position to scoff at 145 million in savings.

[BoulderSooner]

I agree somewhat, but I saw a report on okpolicy or somewhere that said even if we lowered our administrative costs (as a percentage of educational spending) to match the lowest in the country, we would save about 145 million a year. That's nice, but it doesn't make much of a dent or increase to our 2.7 billion dollar education budget. If we put the entire amount into instruction, we would move up one spot in the rankings.

a 5 percet budget increase ... and I would bet that is massively under projected

[David]

My gripe in ALL this is that we see those ranking numbers, but tend to overlook the fact that Oklahoma has a state education appropriation in excess of $1.8 BILLION, but can't seem to find or fund priorities properly. That's staggering to me..

$1.8 billion is a lot of money, but by itself it is a number that has no inherent meaning. You need comparisons to other states or in depth analysis of how that 1.8 is spent before you can reasonably conclude anything. Just the number itself doesn't say anything about whether we overfund or underfund, or fund adequately but spend badly, or some combination of the two.

[dankrutka]

Here are Oklahoma school superintendent salaries. Over 100 superintendents make under $50,000 and over 400 make under $100,000. About 120 superindentents make six figures: http://oklahomawatch.org/2014/06/29/...dent-salaries/

[jerrywall]

Here are Oklahoma school superintendent salaries. Over 100 superintendents make under $50,000 and over 400 make under $100,000. About 120 superindentents make six figures: http://oklahomawatch.org/2014/06/29/...dent-salaries/

And, the higher paid ones tend to make little per pupil.

Like I said, I'm sure there's some waste, and it doesn't hurt to try to trim the fat and be more efficient, but we have a funding problem more than a spending one.