Vehicle Tag Readers Coming to Oklahoma?

[BBatesokc]

Apologize if this thread exists elsewhere (couldn't find it and I don't trust the search feature)....

Bill authorizes use of cameras, automated systems to catch uninsured motorists

Thoughts?

Uninsured motorists is a huge problem in this state, but do these scanner cross the line?

I tend to lean towards less gov't is always better - so, I'm not a big fan of these. But, primarily only because I haven't read enough about what (if any) restrictions are going to be on the use of the data that is collected.

Right now I can type a person's tag number into one of a few databases and see each time its been photographed. Just the other day I used this technology to inform OKC Vice that a human trafficker's vehicle they were actively seeking (to place a court ordered GPS on it) had literally just been photographed several states away. The information comes complete with a photo, GPS coordinates and a date/time stamp.

Had a client have me run her tag to see how easy it would be for her to be found after her pimp is released from prison and her car was photographed so many times at a particular business park that it was obvious that is where she is employed.

Will Oklahoma's database be made available in such a way or will it only be used for insurance complaisance? Will this data be stored anywhere where it could potentially be subpoenaed?

These details may have been outlined somewhere, but I hadn't look deep enough to find it.

[ctchandler]

BBatesokc,
Tonight I'm running off at the mouth, so let me tell you my opinion. I could easily be a Libertarian if there was any chance that a Libertarian candidate could win in this state. So, obviously, I am not a fan of government interference in my/our lives. I don't trust cameras for speeding or running red lights, but catching uninsured motorists seems to be fairly harmless. If an individual is caught, and the records are wrong, all he/she has to do is provide proof of insurance. End of story. Yes, it's an inconvenience but hopefully, the records will be properly maintained and those caught don't have insurance and proper actions will be taken. And if they do, simply provide proof of insurance to the right folks and that would be the end of it. I have spent $6,000 for uninsured motorist insurance (an estimate) and I am actually getting ready to cancel it since nobody rides in my car except me and I am medically insured. There's something wrong with this picture.
C. T.

[Martin]

Thoughts?

you've pretty much outlined my primary concern. i'm ok (academically) with a system that scans a plate, compares it against a database of insured motorists, and informs an officer if an uninsured motorist is detected. otherwise, the plate number is immediately and completely forgotten. however, i think that the reality is that if law enforcement has nine-tenths of a system that can persistently track and store the time and location of plate numbers, then there will be a push for that ability under the guise of public safety.. and i'm not sure that i'm entirely comfortable with such a tool being in the hands of law enforcement. -M

[mkjeeves]

They are already in use locally by law enforcement.

http://okcfox.com/archive/youre-bein...ut-you-at-risk

One of the major players. (Besides law enforcement.)
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...llance/427047/

[Midtowner]

If it's the government doing this at their expense, fine. If they're partnering with private companies and sharing in the ticket revenues, that may be problematic.

[BBatesokc]

My fear is in several states a private company provides the equipment and data storage for little or no cost - in exchange for the ability to monetize the resulting data. One of the ways they often monetize the data is to make it available on certain data bases.

[stile99]

The thread doesn't *quite* exist, but the topic was touched on as being a possible 'real' reason for the new plates in the new plates thread, but got derailed by the fee/tax debate.

The thought crossed my mind at that time, but then wandered away, and now it is back. Remember all those comments about Great Britain being a nanny state a few years back, and how at any given corner you're on at least three different cameras? It seems we're pretty well along that slippery slope ourselves. All those 'crazy people' who said we have no privacy left? Turns out they weren't that crazy after all. Not even in our own homes, I've seen stories about people's houses being monitored by hanging a camera on a nearby light pole and aiming it at their front door.

[Zuplar]

I'm completely against it. We hardly have any privacy anymore. I get that uninsured motorists are a problem, but still some of this monitoring and automation is just too much. Next thing we know the government will be introducing Skynet and how it's going to make all of our lives easier. Then it will become self-aware.

[terryinokc]

OK...just a thought from someone that has worked in local insurance offices for more than 25 years.
Uninsured motorists are out there....a lot of them....average 25% of the cars on the road in Oklahoma are uninsured. Oklahoma has some of the highest auto (and home) insurance premium in the country.

A few years back, I was in an accident with an uninsured motorist. He didn't yield on a turn and hit my car. He was 19 years old...out on probation from 2 felonies...and no insurance.
Wanted to give me $500 to not call the cops. Told him that wasn't going to work. Police came...he was arrested...and my insurance company paid about $3000 for damages to my car...after I met my deductible.
Shoulder started hurting about 2 weeks later....after 2 MRI's and 2 rounds of physical therapy I was much better....and my Uninsured Motorist coverage on my auto policy paid for this.

So....long story short....I pay premiums for Uninsured Motorist coverage on my auto in the amount of $125.00 per six months. To cover medical related expenses after an accident with an uninsured motorist. In Oklahoma--the Uninsured Motorist coverage does not cover damage to your vehicle--just medical bills.
Because this guy didn't have insurance....I had to pay $500 deductible to get my car fixed.

If you multiply the cost of my (and the average collision deductible on auto policies) times the number of accidents that uninsured motorists cause each month in Oklahoma....the amount of money the average Joe is out of pocket is staggering...ALL BECAUSE SOMEONE ISN'T RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO HAVE INSURANCE IF THEY DRIVE A CAR.........

Something needs to be done....if it's cameras that work....so be it...Take their license plates when they're stopped and don't give them back until they can prove they have insurance....and don't give them back until it's proven that the policy stays in force for a while....otherwise you have the same situation as now....people come in and buy a policy...get their ID cards...go to the tag agency and get their tag...and then never make another payment on the policy--and it lapses for nonpayment. That's another big expense that trickles down the to average Joe...it costs the insurance companies money to underwrite and issue the policy...it if never gets paid for...and they go along their merry way and drive again without coverage.

Sorry for the rant but that's 25 years of frustration with people getting away with this and nothing being done....and we are all paying for it in more ways than we know.

The one's that don't have insurance whine that the cost is too much for them to pay....too bad....don't have a vehicle if you can't pay for the insurance. You're out there damaging other people's cars and causing lots of injuries because of your lack of responsibility.

[Pete]

Why can't we do what California does?

They have a database that requires anyone with a car tag to have valid insurance on file.

They cross-reference with insurance databases and you get a notice from the DMV of intention to suspend your tag if you aren't current.

[Zuplar]

Why can't we do what California does?

They have a database that requires anyone with a car tag to have valid insurance on file.

They cross-reference with insurance databases and you get a notice from the DMV of intention to suspect your tag if you aren't current.

Probably cause that makes way too much sense.

[stile99]

Something needs to be done.

You will find no one, and I mean NO ONE, who agrees with that more than me. However, the cameras are going to do absolutely nothing, and the "25% uninsured" figure has been bantered about for twenty years now as an excuse to get whatever it is they currently want. If all the 'solutions' for the past two decades didn't solve the problem, there's no reason to believe this one will either. That said, you do touch on a solution that will work, but I'm going to take it a step or two further.

Take the license plates right then and there when they are stopped...but they're not getting them back. After 30 days in jail, they need to go get insurance, then go get new plates. Don't have 30 days to spend in jail? Don't have the money to re-register your car? Easy solution...BUY THE INSURANCE. Don't want to buy the insurance? Again, easy solution, take public transportation. This is step one. Step two is if you get caught driving without insurance again, no problem! No worries, you're not going to jail again, we've already proven that didn't work for you. And we're not taking your license plates this time...because we're taking your car. You can have it back when you get insurance and pay the towing/impound fees.

"But these cameras will help us catch them!" Sure will. But if you're not going to DO anything about it, then nothing is going to change. Yes, something needs to be done. Two decades of nothing has gotten us...nothing.

[Pete]

I mentioned that when I was recently stopped by OKC police that they did not even ask for proof of insurance.

It's pretty clear this has not been a priority of law enforcement for whatever reason.

[Zuplar]

I mentioned that when I was recently stopped by OKC police that they did not even ask for proof of insurance.

It's pretty clear this has not been a priority of law enforcement for whatever reason.

Little bit of enforcement and training would a long way.

[jerrywall]

I mentioned that when I was recently stopped by OKC police that they did not even ask for proof of insurance.

It's pretty clear this has not been a priority of law enforcement for whatever reason.

They can run your plates and find out if your insurance is valid. It's more secure than asking for a physical proof.

https://www.dps.state.ok.us/OCIVS/

I've had a few mention they don't ask for verification anymore for this reason.

[Ozmondo]

What do they do if they find out you don't have insurance? Do they write you a ticket/ Tow your car?

[Pete]

They can run your plates and find out if your insurance is valid. It's more secure than asking for a physical proof.

https://www.dps.state.ok.us/OCIVS/

I've had a few mention they don't ask for verification anymore for this reason.

Right, but I assure you this cop did not do that, as he wrote that ticket and no time flat then went right back to his speed trap.

[jerrywall]

What do they do if they find out you don't have insurance? Do they write you a ticket/ Tow your car?

Either. They added impounding your car as a penalty a few years ago. Then a couple of years later they added the ability to take your license plate. (Note: this is exchange for towing). Here's the potential penalties for first offense:

Fine: of not more than $250.00

Imprisonment: for not more than 30
days, or by both such fine and
imprisonment, addition thereto

Suspension of License: Until proof of
security is furnished and a total of up to
$275 in fees are paid under §47-6-212.

Impoundment: the law enforcement
officer issuing the citation may seize
the vehicle being operated by the
person and cause the vehicle to be
towed and stored as provided by
subsection B of Section 955 of this
title.

[jerrywall]

Right, but I assure you this cop did not do that, as he wrote that ticket and no time flat then went right back to his speed trap.

So he didn't run your license and check you for warrants or anything? I've sat in the police car during an insurance check, and it's quicker than running a license. Some have cameras on the hoods that automatically run it as well, and will alert the officer is there is no current insurance on the vehicle.

[stick47]

Take their plates and they'll just steal plates off someone elses car. We even had a rash of stolen year stickers off plates where I once worked. I vote for mpounding the car.

[jerrywall]

Take their plates and they'll just steal plates off someone elses car. We even had a rash of stolen year stickers off plates where I once worked. I vote for mpounding the car.

The other problem with taking plates is you're asking, in many areas, a solo officer to be bending down behind the car of a suspect.

[BBatesokc]

Right, but I assure you this cop did not do that, as he wrote that ticket and no time flat then went right back to his speed trap.

I'd almost guarantee they ran you for insurance. Its a very fast process these days. I can run you from my computer and know in literally seconds.

Its no sweat to them and they literally get 'points' for adding such items to their daily activity log.

As for "what do they do if you don't have insurance?" Someone I know was stopped less than a month ago and they had to uber home. Their car was impounded on the spot. Ended up costing probably $600-$1000 when it was all over.

[stile99]

The other problem with taking plates is you're asking, in many areas, a solo officer to be bending down behind the car of a suspect.

I'm fine with jumping right to impounding the car, take the plates off at the lot. We need to make this REALLY inconvenient.

[DowntownMan]

I'm fine with jumping right to impounding the car, take the plates off at the lot. We need to make this REALLY inconvenient.

What can we do to get rid of the paper tags that are 6 months old. These always scare me because I assume if they can't afford the tt&l they probably don't have insurance as well

[bradh]

It's all a slam against the poor. They can't afford it so they don't buy it. You want to get tough? Get prepared for groups to cry foul because "if you take their license or car they can't get to work!".

I understand the privacy deal, but if we as a society can't follow the law, them maybe we are not worthy of said privacy. I am with the insurance agent, it's a problem.