Maps 3 new consideration...

[mranderson]

You can find your own numbers. Easy's numbers are just from '03. We're four years removed from those numbers.

Also, I never said it was old. Maybe that was someone else. It is slightly outdated and worn, even if it is 5 years old.

You are the one that made the claim that the investment had been recouped. Not me. So, proove it.

[writerranger]

You are the one that made the claim that the investment had been recouped. Not me. So, proove it.

Anderson, Berry Tramel wrote a column back on the 4th of this month where he wrote:

"The Ford Center is a decent coliseum, and at $89 million, it cost us a song. If it burns down tonight — not that the shooting of the Sonics or Hornets are capable of lighting such a spark — we'll still have gotten our money out of the deal. The Hornets, the Big 12 Tournament, Paul McCartney. That's getting close to $89 million right there."

I don't know where he got his figures, but I assume he didn't just make that up!

BTW, if you want to see the column in full, Malibu posted it here.

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[mranderson]

Anderson, Berry Tramel wrote a column back on the 4th of this month where he wrote:

"The Ford Center is a decent coliseum, and at $89 million, it cost us a song. If it burns down tonight — not that the shooting of the Sonics or Hornets are capable of lighting such a spark — we'll still have gotten our money out of the deal. The Hornets, the Big 12 Tournament, Paul McCartney. That's getting close to $89 million right there."

I don't know where he got his figures, but I assume he didn't just make that up!

BTW, if you want to see the column in full, Malibu posted it here.

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That still has no evidence of profit and loss. You must take in to consideration costs associated with each attraction, and that quote does not even come close.

[writerranger]

That still has no evidence of profit and loss. You must take in to consideration costs associated with each attraction, and that quote does not even come close.

When somebody of his stature writes that we've "already gotten our money out of the deal," I have to assume he has looked at the figures. I'm not a Tramel fan, but that column strongly suggests that the Ford center has recouped its costs.

If you have figures to the contrary, post away.

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[mranderson]

When somebody of his stature writes that we've "already gotten our money out of the deal," I have to assume he has looked at the figures. I'm not a Tramel fan, but that column strongly suggests that the Ford center has recouped its costs.

If you have figures to the contrary, post away.

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I guess if you want to believe someone that might not know how to calculate the return on a realestate investment, then be your guest. I stand by what I said.

[JavaDaves]

Anderson, Berry Tramel wrote a column back on the 4th of this month where he wrote:

"The Ford Center is a decent coliseum, and at $89 million, it cost us a song. If it burns down tonight — not that the shooting of the Sonics or Hornets are capable of lighting such a spark — we'll still have gotten our money out of the deal. The Hornets, the Big 12 Tournament, Paul McCartney. That's getting close to $89 million right there."

I don't know where he got his figures, but I assume he didn't just make that up!

BTW, if you want to see the column in full, Malibu posted it here.

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Tramel isn't a very respectable source.

[John]

I saw the receipts from most of the big concerts at the Ford Center for the first few years and those added with the Hornets, Big XII, etc have added up to the $89MM. That's not counting economic impact.

[HOT ROD]

guys guys guys!!!!

I think you all are going overboard with this. The city ALREADY knows they have to update the Ford Center to complete NBA luxury spec. The city ALREADY has funds in place to make this happen.

The question is, what amenities does Bennett want? Im sure he has been in communication with the city and that conversation has been had. If the city doesn't have the money to do the update - then Im sure there would be an impromptu MAPS vote, call it MAPS Ia - Finish the Job at Ford Center; and such a vote would likely happen soon.

But I think the city already has the funding to update the interiour of the Ford Center with the luxury amenities. All of this talk about $100M would be to update the Exteriour, and I dont think that is wholly necessary. Sure, they might want to put in some more space and windows - but I think it could be done cost effectively within the funds the city already has. If not, a Maps I extension could be voted on which would be solely a vote for the SONICS, and surely would pass.

MAPS 3 is a whole other animal - as MAPS is a collection of NEW projects. I think the city needs to focus on its beautification and transportation for MAPS 3. You can have a major league team or whatever but you might not ever want to have it on TV or have visitors come to OKC in its current conditions around town.

The city needs sidewalks and lighting in its major thoroughfares and along many inner city streets to encourage pedestrians WALKING and use of transit. The city needs foliage, statues, fountains at gateway centers and neighbourhoods to improve the look of the city and enhance liveability. The city needs updated community centers in its neighbourhoods to give people a sense of community as well as community pride in OKC. The city needs to update its transportation network to include additional busses, commuter busses and parknrides and a downtown trolley circular so that downtown can really grow and become dense.

these are all of the elements that need to be in MAPS 3 - to improve OKC as a city! And I dont think it will take 10 years to complete this either, more like 5 = 2013.

In 2011, we could begin MAPS IV discussions which would surely include a replacement for the Ford Center or a new arena altogether (retaining Ford Center as the secondary arena). By then, I-40 would be complete and much of MAPS 3 beautification would be complete and getting mature. The transit network should be in place, so it would be time to discuss moving OKC into the future.

MAPS I brought OKC up to par with the 1990's. MAPS II solidified that by improving our schools. MAPS III should be to improve OKC as a liveable city.

MAPS IV should be to improve OKC as a national city, since we would have been major league for at least 5 years by 2013. And Ford Center would be 10 years old, 5 years old if you count the upgraded Ford Center.

Honestly, with upgrades the Ford Center becomes a NEW arena again - just like how the Seattle Coluseum got upgraded and became Key Arena and was considered new after the update. Seattle wont update 12 year old Key again nor will they build a new one - but OKC is not at that time in space yet!

All we need to do is update the Ford Center insides maybe also some outside expansion/beautification. If the funds don't exist or arent enough, then a special MAPS I extension could easily be voted on and approved this year.

We should talk about a new arena when Ford is 10 years old, and that new arena should be part of MAPS 4.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Why can't we merge this thread with other thread about Upgrade vs. New?

[okcpulse]

Thanks, HOT ROD. Sometimes some of us need a reality check from an outsiders perspective. We appreciate your ongoing support of OKC from Seattle. It's good to know that there are Seattlites that don't think we are one-toothed rednecks.

[mranderson]

I saw the receipts from most of the big concerts at the Ford Center for the first few years and those added with the Hornets, Big XII, etc have added up to the $89MM. That's not counting economic impact.

Economic impact is not factored into the equasion when determaning if a realestate investment has gained a profitable return. Plus, the 89 million or more is just the amount the arena cost. It is not even break even. You must factor in utilities, advertising, personnel, and other associated costs.

[JavaDaves]

I saw the receipts from most of the big concerts at the Ford Center for the first few years and those added with the Hornets, Big XII, etc have added up to the $89MM. That's not counting economic impact.

Receipts do not equal what the city has actually made from rent and collected taxes associated with events at Ford.

[Easy180]

Also, while New Orleans had only one major corporation sponsoring the Hornets, Oklahoma City has five, including Devon Energy Corp., Kerr-McGee and Chesapeake Energy. That's why city officials, even with modest calculations -- average attendance of 12,000 for 35 games, average ticket price of $50 -- project a boost to the local economy of $55 million to $60 million.

From the Minneapolis Star Tribune

Of course average attendance was MUCH higher than the projections above...Let's just scale back the projections by $15 mil and say $40 mil a year since this was based on just one

Bored of this..Back to topic

It will be interesting to see what exactly Bennett has in mind Hot Rod..Hopefully what ever will be done will enhance the fan experience just as much as the players and owners...Would be nice to see articles and feedback as to how nice the Ford Center is from the out of towners

[CuatrodeMayo]

Volcano Stadium - soccer stadium
2003, Guadalajara, Mexico

Tentatively scheduled to open next spring, in time for the 101st birthday of Guadalajara’s team, Massaud and Pouzet’s 45,000-seat soccer stadium (below) will hide parking garages (as well as a restaurant and museum, among other facilities) in a grassy mound ringed around the buried central arena. Massaud took advantage of Guadalajara’s sunny weather by keeping the $120 million stadium open to the sky, with a donut-shaped “cloud” of fabric stretched out over a steel frame for shading.

[jbrown84]

That's innovative.

[bombermwc]

Freaky!

[betts]

When you look at the timeline for moving I-40 and how long it takes to construct a new arena, it's not such an unreasonable plan. Clay had preliminary plans for an arena/convention center combo in Seattle, and I think you'd be able to sell that more easily. The Ford Center could be our back up arena, similar to the Cox now. And the Cox could be (needs to be) imploded. I believe Mayor Mick mentioned that the Cox land would be an ideal spot to build a new hotel if it were no longer standing.

I firmly believe that an NBA team would give this city cachet that would enable it to make far more money attracting new business and educated individuals. It's the next step, and if we don't take it, we're down with the Louisvilles and Birminghams, rather than up with Kansas City and Denver. I love basketball, so I want a team here for far more than cachet and free advertising, but it would make a huge difference in how this city is viewed.

[jbrown84]

The Cox site is way too big for just one hotel.

[Kerry]

What about the agreement between Hammonds and the city for catering the Myriad? When does it expire? If the city builds a new convention center would they be obligated to give Hammonds right of first refusal on building a convention hotel? I am not opposed to this, just wondering. However, I don't think the Myriad will be demolished. Asking the citizens to build a new arena AND a new convention center when both were parts of MAPS would doom any Maps 3 vote. If anything, the arena would be converted to convention space.

[Midtowner]

Kerry,

You pose an interesting question. However, I don't think such a grand scheme would be held up because of a catering arrangement. That's one of those ancillary issues which would be negotiated at a later date.

[dismayed]

You know from the side it looks like a futuristic UFO. But from the side that thing looks like a toilet bowl cover. OMG it's the Toilet Bowl!

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

You know from the side it looks like a futuristic UFO. But from the side that thing looks like a toilet bowl cover. OMG it's the Toilet Bowl!

Sooo....When the crowd does "The Wave", does it go clockwise or counter-clockwise?

That thing looks cool.

[metro]

That's a totally cool stadium. I wish more designers would be like that. I think we'll see more of it in the future, being more mindful of the landscaping, etc. It's very earth friendly and blends right in not to detract from the beautiful scenery. Looks like it came from a sci-fi movie.