Saj Lebanese (formerly Cultivar)

[TheTravellers]

The owner and operator of Cultivar is very aware of the issues being made public here and on social media in general.

Good to know, thanks for clearing that up. Now if they'd just fix them. Sounds like a cool place with good food, but we won't be going until they get it figured out, life's too short to get frustrated when eating out, too many other places that have it already figured out.

I am curious, though - anybody know why they decided to do ordering this way?

Did they test it somehow and everybody liked the way it went (as opposed to the general public hating it)?

Did they come up with it out of nowhere (I can't think of another restaurant off the top of my head that does it this way, but there might be some) and if so, why (why did they not go with what works at pretty much every restaurant around - one order line)?

[Urbanized]

I never get frustrated at Cultivar. I just skip the line entirely and order from the bar.

[Bullbear]

Good to know, thanks for clearing that up. Now if they'd just fix them. Sounds like a cool place with good food, but we won't be going until they get it figured out, life's too short to get frustrated when eating out, too many other places that have it already figured out.

I am curious, though - anybody know why they decided to do ordering this way?

Did they test it somehow and everybody liked the way it went (as opposed to the general public hating it)?

Did they come up with it out of nowhere (I can't think of another restaurant off the top of my head that does it this way, but there might be some) and if so, why (why did they not go with what works at pretty much every restaurant around - one order line)?

I wouldn't let any of the things mentioned keep you away. I would say these are minor issues and in no way has it kept me from visiting multiple times since they opened.

[Pete]

Too easily lost in all this discussion is the fact they have some some great food and a very, very cool place.

The service issues to me have been minor and thus I've already been four times and enjoyed it immensely each time.

[TheTravellers]

I wouldn't let any of the things mentioned keep you away. I would say these are minor issues and in no way has it kept me from visiting multiple times since they opened.

Eh, we've got literally 50+ restaurants on our list that we haven't visited yet, and we just generally don't go to restaurants here in OKC within 3-4 months of opening, so we'll hit some of our other places until then... So it's nothing specifically against Cultivar, but a general policy - been burned too many times by shoddiness, just don't want to even think about the possibility of dealing with it.

[Lauri101]

I was downtown visiting former co-workers last Thursday and we were going to try Cultivar. Skipped it because of accessibility, or lack thereof.
Haters of ADA usually don't NEED ADA as I do. I can't get my rollator down the sidewalk and it's not worth risking life and limb. Even entering the restaurant seemed problematic, so we went over to Iguana and had an outstanding lunch!

How Cultivar passed the city inspection is beyond me. You can't block an entire sidewalk so people with disabilities are unable to pass through. Too bad - I really wanted to try it!

[ctchandler]

I was downtown visiting former co-workers last Thursday and we were going to try Cultivar. Skipped it because of accessibility, or lack thereof.
Haters of ADA usually don't NEED ADA as I do. I can't get my rollator down the sidewalk and it's not worth risking life and limb. Even entering the restaurant seemed problematic, so we went over to Iguana and had an outstanding lunch!

How Cultivar passed the city inspection is beyond me. You can't block an entire sidewalk so people with disabilities are unable to pass through. Too bad - I really wanted to try it!

Lauri,
I understand your problem. I use a scooter and it is easier than a rollator. I recently bought a rollator and it's pretty nice, but due to my tendency to pass out, I have been a little reluctant to use it. I can see that it could be more difficult to maneuver. I still would like to visit Cultivar. Do you think I would be able to navigate the place on a scooter?
Thanks,
C. T.

[Urbanized]

I've heard from several people that they block the sidewalk, and I have been confused by these comments. I don't think the bar (fenced) area does at all. It is about 5' from the curb, which isn't optimal, but I believe complies with ADA. I think the problem is that they did not move a concrete planter that was put there in the late nineties. That does indeed narrow the sidewalk even further, to maybe 3'. It would be easy enough to move; would require a forklift or something but is not bolted down.

I know this because I placed it there myself when I was with the Automobile Alley Main Street Program. We had a whole bunch of planters "donated" to us when they were cleared out of the CBD. They were originally from some street beautification project in maybe the 1950s or 60s. I remember that one of them had a plaque on it stating that it had been donated by Allie "Superchief" Reynolds. Anyway, we funded their painting, planting and upkeep as a beautification shortcut for Broadway. I moved them using a rented forklift, with volunteers. If Cultivar were to move that planter I think they would be within the letter of ADA.

Also, the door is just a regular door, 36' wide, and as ADA friendly as any door on Broadway. It complies. There is no ramp or impedence. There is a hallway that you go down and another similar commercial door to go through. I will say, however, that the furniture in the dining room is large and crowded, so I think navigating the dining room might be tough. However, there is other seating that runs to the back of the building, and I'm sure that you can get wheelchairs and /or scooters to multiple tables in the restaurant quite easily.

[Uptowner]

I was downtown visiting former co-workers last Thursday and we were going to try Cultivar. Skipped it because of accessibility, or lack thereof.
Haters of ADA usually don't NEED ADA as I do. I can't get my rollator down the sidewalk and it's not worth risking life and limb. Even entering the restaurant seemed problematic, so we went over to Iguana and had an outstanding lunch!

How Cultivar passed the city inspection is beyond me. You can't block an entire sidewalk so people with disabilities are unable to pass through. Too bad - I really wanted to try it!

I'm not disabled, but a family member has MS, so I notice this all the time. Plaza is the worst offender. Here's a gem: it's followed up by this gauntlet through a partially fenced off patio where the original plaza Renaissance planters funnel pedestrian traffic into, what? A ****ing pick nick table.

Then there's this genius idea to straight up annex the thoroughfare and direct traffic through an ABC-3 operating patio.

Urbanized said 5 feet at cultivar. But that's supposed to be off the back of the curb. If it wouldn't make me look like a weirdo I'd measure it next time I was there. Remember red prime had to pull theirs back?

Patios are the hot new thing. And storefront operations are scrambling to build them to compete with places like fassler, bleu garten, the pump, patriarch...every new bar/restaurant concept have patios and bay doors. And I'm cool with that. We just need a little oversight here and no offense to the zoning guys on the 8th floor but these are uncharted waters here for OKC. It wouldn't hurt to take a look at places like Austin, Denver, and KC to see what their Guidelines look like.

[TheTravellers]

... We just need a little oversight here and no offense to the zoning guys on the 8th floor but these are uncharted waters here for OKC. It wouldn't hurt to take a look at places like Austin, Denver, and KC to see what their Guidelines look like.

And Chicago - they have *tons* of patios downtown and none of them block pedestrian traffic (if they did, the patio would look like a small tornado had gone through there due to the sheer number of pedestrians in downtown Chicago. Once again, OKC really needs to not think it's exceptional and knows how to do stuff right, when they clearly don't.

[Urbanized]

And Chicago - they have *tons* of patios downtown and none of them block pedestrian traffic (if they did, the patio would look like a small tornado had gone through there due to the sheer number of pedestrians in downtown Chicago. Once again, OKC really needs to not think it's exceptional and knows how to do stuff right, when they clearly don't.

Well, that's certainly not my experience in Chicago. I had cocktails and a cigar seated on the sidewalk at Sullivan's Steakhouse in downtown Chicago a few years ago, it it was configured just like these places we are talking about. Here is a pic:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8900...8i6656!6m1!1e1

[TheTravellers]

Well, that's certainly not my experience in Chicago. I had cocktails and a cigar seated on the sidewalk at Sullivan's Steakhouse in downtown Chicago a few years ago, it it was configured just like these places we are talking about. Here is a pic:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8900...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Sorry, should've said "When we lived there from 1996 - 2008.....", have not been back there since, my bad. And that sidewalk isn't completely blocked, looks to be maybe, barely ADA-compliant, though.

[Lauri101]

Lauri,
I understand your problem. I use a scooter and it is easier than a rollator. I recently bought a rollator and it's pretty nice, but due to my tendency to pass out, I have been a little reluctant to use it. I can see that it could be more difficult to maneuver. I still would like to visit Cultivar. Do you think I would be able to navigate the place on a scooter?
Thanks,
C. T.

C.T. - it depends on how wide your scooter is. I've rented scooters when traveling to large conventions and they tend to be rather wide at the seat. From the glimpse I got, you might have a problem.

I've about decided that local businesses could give a flip about people with disabilities. I'm now a member of the Mayor's Council on Disability Concerns and rather than bitching about the problem, I'm going to try and do something about it. What the heck - I'm retired, so I may as well do something to help others and raise awareness!

[Pete]

I'm now a member of the Mayor's Council on Disability Concerns and rather than bitching about the problem, I'm going to try and do something about it. What the heck - I'm retired, so I may as well do something to help others and raise awareness!

That's awesome.

Thanks for making the effort to make things better for others.

[Lauri101]

snip
If Cultivar were to move that planter I think they would be within the letter of ADA.

Also, the door is just a regular door, 36' wide, and as ADA friendly as any door on Broadway. It complies. There is no ramp or impedence. There is a hallway that you go down and another similar commercial door to go through. I will say, however, that the furniture in the dining room is large and crowded, so I think navigating the dining room might be tough. However, there is other seating that runs to the back of the building, and I'm sure that you can get wheelchairs and /or scooters to multiple tables in the restaurant quite easily.

Thanks - I couldn't see that when I rolled up to door. All I could see was a sidewalk where I couldn't travel from the north and a very crowded room. Even trying to place an order appeared too daunting for me.

There are restaurants that are ADA friendly and they get my business. Maybe Cultivar will take a hint and make it better, but if not, the Iguana has some kick-ass tilapia tacos!

[Lauri101]

That's awesome.

Thanks for making the effort to make things better for others.

Thanks Pete - it's amazing how fast they grab willing volunteers. I'll be working (and learning more) about ADA and reducing barriers. This is my hot spot. I may be disabled but I'm not dead and I'd like to be able to go out to dinner, go shopping or go to a movie without having to stress out about whether I can fit my rollator somewhere. I worked too damn hard to get my legs to work again to just sit at home and vegetate!

[Pete]

^

Please keep us posted on the committee's progress.

[dankrutka]

Good luck on the work, Lauri. We all need to follow not just the letter of the ADA, but the spirit of it. All people should be able to enjoy what our cities have to offer. I've probably annoyed a lot of people in the town in which I live in by posting pictures and asking, can someone in a wheelchair navigate this area?

[ctchandler]

C.T. - it depends on how wide your scooter is. I've rented scooters when traveling to large conventions and they tend to be rather wide at the seat. From the glimpse I got, you might have a problem.

I've about decided that local businesses could give a flip about people with disabilities. I'm now a member of the Mayor's Council on Disability Concerns and rather than bitching about the problem, I'm going to try and do something about it. What the heck - I'm retired, so I may as well do something to help others and raise awareness!

Lauri,
I know this is the Cultivar thread, but since we are talking about accessibility, I enjoy going to the bar and having a good craft beer and one of the places that has gone out of their way to accommodate folks with disabilities is the new On the Border in Del City. I don't need anything other than a place to park my scooter, I can walk short distances, so I sit at the bar but they have a portion of the bar set aside for people in wheel chairs (or folks in scooters that can't leave them). It's a bar at wheel chair level. Just thought I should mention them because I don't think it's an ADA requirement.
C. T.

[Urbanized]

Good luck on the work, Lauri. We all need to follow not just the letter of the ADA, but the spirit of it. All people should be able to enjoy what our cities have to offer. I've probably annoyed a lot of people in the town in which I live in by posting pictures and asking, can someone in a wheelchair navigate this area?

It even goes beyond wheelchairs. As I've become more and more involved in accessibility issues I've listened to experts who (correctly) point out that everyone can move through arcs of "disability" during their lives; requiring an easier path. It could be as simple as breaking/forgetting your glasses, losing a contact, having a broken leg or sprained ankle, or could include toting kids or pushing them in strollers. Visitors have luggage, wich makes getting around difficult. The elderly might not be specifically disabled, but can have balance, strength and vision deficits.

Th point is, if we build our environment where it only works well for the 100% able-bodied, we shut off access for many, many people, not just the few who we might occasionally notice in a wheelchair or using a white cane. And the person who needs better access tomorrow might easily be you. Our sidewalks should be convenient and safe for everybody.

[Pete]

^

Great points and thanks for that perspective.

[Pete]

Went last night a little before 8PM and the place was completely packed.

I saw one small table on the patio that was messy but it appeared people had left, so I snagged it.

Straight away, a young woman came and cleared everything and took my drink order. I didn't see any signs about bussing your own table so perhaps that has now changed since they are better staffed.

After a bit, we moved to the seats at the outdoor bar and had excellent service. Just had a couple of drinks and the queso, which I am starting to crave.

It's just such a cool, lively scene. There was a large wedding reception at Water's Edge Winery next door, so lots of people out and about, stopping to chat, etc. Auto Alley really needs more places with patios as it's one of the really great urban scenes in OKC.

[HOT ROD]

totally agree with your last statement!

[Lauri101]

Thank you all for comments of support. Urbanized hit it on the mark - you never know when you might need an accommodation in order to function like a normal person.
The Mayor's Committee has been around for a while, with little fanfare or publicity. I'll start a new thread about the functions, etc., rather than continuing to hijack Cultivar!

[Pete]

Looks like the sidewalk issue will soon be addressed by removing the existing planter and adding others closer to the fencing: