Maps 3 new consideration...

[Patrick]

Just looking at the picture below, I see a nice place for that high rise office tower that we're all wanting. Let's tear down Century Center, and put it there. Would sure add to the skyline.

We've talked about this before but one of the easy ways to upgrade the Ford Center and add amenities would be to expand it to the southwest after I-40 is demolished and the off-ramp is removed.

I could see a big atrium that would front the new boulevard & Robinson:

[mranderson]

But, shouldn't Kansas City have a plan to replace the Crystal Palace in 5 years too? I don't see the difference. You're trying to say that arenas only have a life of 5 years. What does that say about other arenas in the league, like Madison Square Garden?

Madison Square Garden was built in, I think, 1962. In "dog years" that makes it older than God. No new arena at this time.

[mranderson]

In the world of NBA arenas we purchased a Kia, it is a top of the line Kia, but it is still a Kia. (nothing against Kia's by the way) Now you can paint this Kia, put a new stereo in your Kia, and "pimp your ride" all you want. The fact is that it is still a Kia.

Now the new arena will be a Bentley, with all of the bells and whistles. So say 20 years from now what do you want to be driving. Your Kia or your Bentley?

Actually, neither. Bentley's are ugly and way too expensive, and Kia's are a bit too low. I like my Chevrolet. And the one named after Chevrolet's competitor located at Reno and Norick.

[okclee]

[Watson410]

So what are we going to do, spend $500 million every 5 years to build a new arena? I don't know any city that would do that. The city of Seattle is different....they have a 30 year old arena that needs replacing. When the Ford Center is 20-30 years old, it will need replacing as well. For now, we have a new arena.

NO, We'll spend $500 Million every 20-30 years. We spent $90 million or something in that range for the Ford Center. It's already paid for itself.... Come on now Patrick you can't expect a $90 million arena to last much longer than 5 more years in the NBA, if that.

[Patrick]

NO, We'll spend $500 Million every 20-30 years. We spent $90 million or something in that range for the Ford Center. It's already paid for itself.... Come on now Patrick you can't expect a $90 million arena to last much longer than 5 more years in the NBA, if that.

I don't think price really matters. As has been stated, the building is unfinished. Throw another $100 million at it, and you have a typical NBA arena. We already have the shell. There's no need to start over. Also, remember...this is Oklahoma...costs here are much less than in Seattle. Land alone saved us on the Ford Center.

[Patrick]

For comparison sake, New Orleans arena cost $84 million to build.

Looking at other arenas in the league, most ran in the upper 100 millions to build. But, remember, we have the lowest cost of living in the nation, and thus prices are much cheaper here, land included.

[Nixon7]

A question that needs to be asked is how much would it cost us 10-15-20 years from now? The price tags on these arenas keeps shooting up, who knows WHAT it will be like then? 900 mil?

[Spartan]

That's the spirit.

We need to try and get some of these construction projects done now, and right the first time, and we'll save big bucks in the end.

[Patrick]

Well, this just in....Autozone Park in Memphis was built for over $80 million, while the Bricktown Ballpark had a cost of a little over $30 million. I bet next year we should build a new ballpark and bulldoze The Brick....do I hear $100 mill for a new ballpark?

[Spartan]

Instead of envying price tags howabout envying savings? I laugh at KC every time they tell me this on their forum:

Yes, the Ford Center is a cheap arena...you paid $80M for it, what do you expect? It's not up to NBA current standards.

[gmwise]

Good GAWD!
The MAPS projects is to be for the good all.
Not just the sports fans.
You have the Ford Center and for now thats all,you should get.
Lets focus on the infrastruture, ie public transportation,the roads,streets,parking DownTown.
How about the general rehab of the most unsightly areas of the city,
like around the Capitol, the routes in and out of the Downtown/Bricktown.
Your sports arena, ie the Big Ego.
Wouldn't mean crap, if they the visitors tell the folks back home, Nice City, but hell the roads/streets,torn the hell out of my shocks , or GAWD darn it was dirty,broken sidewalks, hardly no parking,vacant buildings, with no care to it at all
I wouldn't mind visiting, but to hell with living there" and the visit maybe a long time till the next one.
NO SPORTS TEAM, or event will be consistant in pulling those folks into a City like that.
YEA Jethro! think curb and street and sight appeal,and getting into and parking,getting around, it means alot.
thank you for letting me have my 2 minutes of RANTING

[PUGalicious]

Well, this just in....Autozone Park in Memphis was built for over $80 million, while the Bricktown Ballpark had a cost of a little over $30 million. I bet next year we should build a new ballpark and bulldoze The Brick....do I hear $100 mill for a new ballpark?

Now, you're just being lame.

Are you telling me that if a major league baseball franchise were considering a move to Oklahoma City, but said the $30 million Bricktown Ballpark was insufficient, we wouldn't build a new one? Come on, Patrick.

[Easy180]

This will probably get deleted but building a new arena in OKC is the dumbest idea yet. If your offended by this then good, you should be. The Ford center is only 5 years old. Granted it was not built with all of the amenties of the Staples Center or the AA Center, but it doesn't have to be.

The only thing these places have more of are the luxury suites. OKC doesn't need 175 suites like the Staples Center or the 143 suites in the AA Center. Who the hell would buy these in OKC. The Ford Center has 56 suites. Meanwhile ARCO Arena is Sacramento only has 30. TD Waterhouse in Orlando has 26 suites. Delta Center in St Lake City has 56. The Quicken Loans arena in Cleveland has 98 suites but only 28 are in the lower part. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

If OKC had 3, 4, or 5 professional tennats then you could make an arguement for larger arena but we don't. I think what we will see is about $40 million in upgrades. The entrances will improved, some glass added to the exterior, and maybe seating turned into suites but a new stadium is not in the works.

And one final thing - the Sonics are not going to KC. You would have to be stupid to think that.

Kerry I guess I'm stupid then...If OKC acts like they are doing Bennett a favor by him bringing them here then he could go elsewhere....Not saying it will happen, but we don't need to walk around thinking our sh** don't stink...We would be the smallest market with an NBA team outside of Nawlin's and players aren't exactly bending over backwards to move to our fine city

No one is saying build it right now...The Ford Center will do just fine for 5 years or so and then an arena will need to get built...I say if we do land the Sonics they will be playing in a fancy new arena by 2015

[PUGalicious]

What he said...

[metro]

Exactly Easy180, the Ford Center will do right now with about $100mil in upgrades however, whomever said don't put an arena in MAPSIII I think is foolish. The NBA and owners have said loosely that they'd move without a decent arena. Keep in mind MAPS For Kids doesn't run out into 2009, that means MAPS3 can't go in effect until after that, the tax goes for a vote, takes a few years to build the arena, and BAM! It's 2015. The question is, will our new arena be ready or will we be typical Oklahoma and be reactive or be proactive and think ahead early. Instead of just starting the idea/tax/discussion around 2015.

And whomever said enough money to the sports fans, I see the point but disagree somewhat. Having an NBA team is a priceless asset to our city PR wise and name recognition, etc. I'm not a very big sports fan either but I wholeheartedly support it. Don't forget, concerts, rodeos, conventions, and other things take place in the arena as well. Not to mention the huge BOOST to our economy that these tax dollars create. These tax dollars DO BENEFIT EVERYONE in the metro whether they realize it or not. They help pay for roads, bridges, parks, etc. Keep in mind, that without these events, these are millions of dollars in revenue that the city would not have each year. The arena's pay for themselves regardless if your not a user for it.

[soonerliberal]

You must remember that the general voting public will see Maps 3 with a new arena and think one thing: "we just got a new arena, sounds like a waste of money". While many of you may be looking to the future and "get it", the general voter will likely see it as a waste of money.

[jbrown84]

Unless it's made very clear that the new arena would be the last project to begin construction.

The Ford Center was the last and think how long it was between the 1993 vote and the Ford's completion.

[JavaDaves]

We have a new arena. No one in their right mind in this city would support another new arena for MAPS III. Remember, MAPS I was only $300 million. I'm not even sure people would supprot a third of that going to upgrades at the Ford Center. We have more immediate needs.

Our fair grounds continue to need improvements. Our parks need improvements. Our city needs beautification. We need quality of life. Building a $500 million arena in a suck town isn't going to accomplish what we need to accomplish. Core to Shore needs to be completed before we discuss building new arenas, and we need to get a good 10-15 years use out of the Ford Center, before we even discuss building a new arena.

[john60]

Good GAWD!
The MAPS projects is to be for the good all.
Not just the sports fans.
You have the Ford Center and for now thats all,you should get.
Lets focus on the infrastruture, ie public transportation,the roads,streets,parking DownTown.
How about the general rehab of the most unsightly areas of the city,
like around the Capitol, the routes in and out of the Downtown/Bricktown.
Your sports arena, ie the Big Ego.
Wouldn't mean crap, if they the visitors tell the folks back home, Nice City, but hell the roads/streets,torn the hell out of my shocks , or GAWD darn it was dirty,broken sidewalks, hardly no parking,vacant buildings, with no care to it at all
I wouldn't mind visiting, but to hell with living there" and the visit maybe a long time till the next one.
NO SPORTS TEAM, or event will be consistant in pulling those folks into a City like that.
YEA Jethro! think curb and street and sight appeal,and getting into and parking,getting around, it means alot.
thank you for letting me have my 2 minutes of RANTING

I think a professional franchise and a new arena will both solve many of these problems. A top of the line arena will draw top of the line performances and sporting events. If we can get into the business of hosting NCAA regionals, Big XII tournaments, and the best concerts in the world because of our amazing facility, I think we can make some money. Building a new arena will eventually be necessary for sustaining a NBA franchise long term. It will be expensive, yes, but it will also mean that we will have millions of dollars pumped into our economy each year that we don't currently have. Sure we get the occasional big name concert or whatever, but if we have an arena on par to Dallas's arena, the sky's the limit as far as economic opportunity.

Our arena is fine for a city without a major league tenant. It would be good for a town like Little Rock, Birmingham, or Tulsa. We used to belong to that group. No longer, though; we are now literally in the same league as San Antonio, Cleveland, and Indianapolis. Its time to either pump in some major upgrades to the Ford Center, or build a new arena. The Ford Center in its current state is inadequate in the long term.

[JavaDaves]

You must remember that the general voting public will see Maps 3 with a new arena and think one thing: "we just got a new arena, sounds like a waste of money". While many of you may be looking to the future and "get it", the general voter will likely see it as a waste of money.

MAPS III will never pass with a new arena. We already have a new arena.

As Patrick said, if we include a new arena, we need to include a new baseball park, a new Civic Center, a new downtown library, and a new canal.

[JavaDaves]

Its time to either pump in some major upgrades to the Ford Center, or build a new arena. The Ford Center in its current state is inadequate in the long term.

Then let's pump more money into the Ford Center. Let's complete what we've started, before we go on to something else.

[Pete]

Original MAPS: vote in 1993, completion in 2002; $350 million

MAPS for Kids: vote in 2001, completion approx. 2011; $470 million

MAPS III: vote approx. 2008, completion in approx. 2018; approx. $600 million


So, you could either add a new area for the tail-end of MAPS III, or wait until the next likely public works project proposal (MAPS IV) in approximately 7-8 years and have the arena be the first project out of the chute.

Personally, I don't think a new arena should be a part of MAPS III for the reasons I stated previously: 1) we can upgrade the Ford Center and get another 10 years use of it; 2) we have other priorities, especially with the core-to-shore opportunity; and 3) I think it would be hard to pass MAPS III with a new arena.

Worse case, MAPS 4 could come a little sooner than the 7-8 year cycle we seem to be on presently. And as far as planning, the new arena could easily go on the site of the current Cox Center, especially if we build a new convention center to the south of the Ford.

[JavaDaves]

I'm with MalibuSooner. Let's complete Core to Shore first, then consider building a new arena after we've gotten our money's worth out of the Ford Center, with improvements and all.

In MAPS IV we can propose a new, nicer, arena.

[Easy180]

MAPS III will never pass with a new arena. We already have a new arena.

As Patrick said, if we include a new arena, we need to include a new baseball park, a new Civic Center, a new downtown library, and a new canal.

Never is such a strong word...AND the new arena won't cost anywhere near $500 million...More like $250 so let's please stop quoting the half a billion figure

Here is a question for you....Let's all think back a few years and remember how much NATIONAL exposure we had received and compare it to these last two years with the Hornets...Articles and pieces from all types of magazines, tv and newspapers across the nation stating how surprised they were how far Oklahoma has come and what it has to offer

Last national exposure (Sad to say) we had before this was the Murrah bombing....Do we want to go back to complete anonymity??