Wheeler District

[krisb]

What does that even mean? It's a one-page website of random street scenes. Probably about an hour spent on Google image search. It's essentially a Pinterest board. You're suggesting that is more impressive than Wheeler's planning documents?

Wheeler has a Pinterest board with similar photos and a stagnant website, but they've also had a lot more time to communicate with the public about their vision. The charette was almost two years ago and there has been very little public information or involvement since then. A lot of people got excited and some of that excitement has waned, IMHO. I don't doubt the quality of their planning efforts but their marketing and PR could use some improvement.

[Pete]

Wheeler has a Pinterest board with similar photos and a stagnant website, but they've also had a lot more time to communicate with the public about their vision. The charette was almost two years ago and there has been very little public information or involvement since then. A lot of people got excited and some of that excitement has waned, IMHO. I don't doubt the quality of their planning efforts but their marketing and PR could use some improvement.

They just filed a 218-page Planned Unit Development document with the city, have held multiple interviews that has resulted in many articles, have made hundreds of posts on their various social media accounts and started construction on the Ferris wheel and plaza.

Not exactly sure what else you want them to do.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
Yes, and even then "marketing and PR" is about ten items down the list in importance at this juncture. Judging either Wheeler or Strawberry fields by their respective marketing and PR efforts demonstrates an incomplete understanding of how much is necessary behind the scenes for either. At this point, what is going on behind the scenes is pretty much ALL that matters, in fact.

[krisb]

My point is that there was a big emphasis on public involvement and awareness at the beginning and then it quickly shifted to only those in the know. Yes, there have been articles but they were mostly rehashing what was presented at the charette meetings (Ferris Wheel, walkable/bikable neighborhood, etc). The PUD document has not been posted publicly yet and we have to rely on insiders like you to get additional info. Even with all of that, it is mostly a one-way communication and not the two-way dialogue and connection to the community like what we saw in July 2014. They hired a marketing and PR person over a year ago, so I assume it is of some importance even at this juncture. I "signed up to be a part of the process" as their website states and have yet to receive an e-mail update or invitation to actually be a part of the process beyond the initial charette, whatever that means.

We all know this is going to be an amazing development and one of a kind for the state of Oklahoma. I'm just pointing out some areas where I think they fell short, that's all.

[Rover]

This is still a private business development, right?

[Pete]

I moved a bunch of photos here:

Strawberry Fields - OKCTalk

[Montreal]

I haven't seen it mentioned explicitly, but the allowance for and encouragement of Accessory Dwelling Units will help drive overall affordability and mixed-income residents. ADUs are typically rented for cheaper than many apartments, and the supplemental rental income from those units will help more people be able to afford the mortgage on the main property unit.

[Teo9969]

^

The only way to make new construction more affordable is to make the homes smaller.

Not much flexibility in the price of land or buidling.

1. Are they actually selling the land?

2. I don't remember that land being terribly expensive. More than an Edmond development, sure, but surely nothing like downtown land, and especially considering they've held the land for some time now. If that $7.2M figure in the wiki is accurate, then I'm pretty sure they're at well under $5 per square foot on land acquisition. Obviously a lot of site cleanup and other infrastructure buildup that needs to be done, but I feel like land assembly would need to be a lot more to start pushing $275/sf+ selling points to make a profit.

3. Construction costs cannot be significantly higher than the rest of the metro, and many new homes throughout the metro are selling for well under $150/sf.

So I mean $100/sf is obviously unrealistic, and that pretty well eliminates a section of people. But this development should be able to push out sub $200/sf without major compromise.

I haven't built, but I get the sense that in Oklahoma City, good urban development should be doable for about $160/sf - $190/sf (obviously neither downtown nor with concrete due to land and building costs). The more density, the better, because you get economy of scale.

$180/sf @ 1250sf is under $250k. I think that would be quite a bit more attractive to a lot of people. Break that $300k mark for the majority of your homes and it is now a distinctly upper middle-class neighborhood. And to be sure, if Wheeler is done right, demand alone will swing prices way up there…but I would hope that people who are going to stick their necks out and put their money where their mouth is at the front end will get rewarded with favorable prices.

[Pete]

I could list all the planning expense and amenities and the fact they need to build streets and do cleanup... But property is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

It's pointless to debate what something should be priced; the market will dictate that.


And we have this discussion time and time again here where people claim various things near downtown are far overpriced, yet everything sells quickly and prices keep going up.

The only new construction near downtown even proposed for anywhere near $300K is The Civic, which has already sold half its units at near $250 / SF, with shared walls and floors, no outdoor space, no garage and no amenities.


On the other hand, there are tons of existing properties near downtown for very affordable prices.

[Teo9969]

I have no doubt that stuff in Wheeler will eventually be pegged to about 10%-15% less than downtown prices (if that much). And I have been been pretty consistent in saying that I think downtown is *still* undervalued by those saying it's overpriced.

But I don't know…depending on how big these homes are for $280k, it just seems like a stretch down here. The kind of stretch that could negatively impact the development.

[Pete]

^

I understand, Teo.

Fortunately, Wheeler has one of the sharpest and most astute minds in all of OKC at the controls and I also know he is absolutely raving passionate about this being a success.

[hoya]

There is demand for housing in the $300K+ price range. I am not sure if there is enough demand to fill the entire Wheeler District.

[Teo9969]

Did we ever determine if they are selling the land?

[Pete]

There is demand for housing in the $300K+ price range. I am not sure if there is enough demand to fill the entire Wheeler District.

It will be a 10-12 year build out.

[Montreal]

Did we ever determine if they are selling the land?

IIRC, individual tracks will be sold to each developer for smaller scale residential development. I'm sure there will be restrictions on these sales to ensure construction begins quickly after sale so people don't buy up land for speculation purposes. Humphreys will also engage in their own residential and commercial development in the neighborhood.

[Pete]

^

That is correct.

[mkjeeves]

IIRC, individual tracks will be sold to each developer for smaller scale residential development. I'm sure there will be restrictions on these sales to ensure construction begins quickly after sale so people don't buy up land for speculation purposes. Humphreys will also engage in their own residential and commercial development in the neighborhood.

That's sort of how they are running Carlton Landing. They have a select list of approved builders they call The Guild. No one else is allowed to build but companies in The Guild. Some of those builders have bought lots and built both spec dwellings and also built custom homes at the site. Individuals can buy a lot, but they have to use a Guild builder, start construction within a year or start paying penalties, and finish on some time line or pay penalties. There is a design manifesto, design review and approval process. Carlton Landing has built and sold some and they have some timeshare property in some state of sales/development. IIRC, owners are required to use Carlton Landing to manage rentals if they rent their property, and go through them for resale. 30 year plan to fully develop Carlton Landing if I remember.

I wonder if Wheeler will have home owner association fees?

[Pete]

From their Twitter account... Ferris wheel pavilion starting to take shape:

[Pete]

From their Twitter account... Ferris wheel pavilion starting to take shape:

[UnFrSaKn]

https://twitter.com/wheelerdistrict/...88130320556032

[AP]

http://journalrecord.com/2016/03/29/...w-real-estate/

[ourulz2000]

Wish they would have put this in the boathouse district.

[warreng88]

Wheeler District plans under review | The Journal Record

Here you go:

Wheeler District plans under review

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record March 29, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – City officials and elected leaders have seen the master plan for the Wheeler District, at the former Downtown Airpark site. After two years of work, the legal documents outlining the district’s design are being considered by the Riverfront Design Committee.

“We are very much in the stage of the project where we are taking things from plans into reality,” said Blair Humphreys, district developer. “It’s keeping us busy.”

The planned unit development application addresses 91.8 acres that stretches from the Oklahoma River, south to Twin Creek, east to S. Western Avenue, and west to S. McKinley Avenue. Humphreys said most of the area is zoned for industrial use, but the PUD would give him and his development team legal guidelines for which the area must be developed.

The PUD lays out five tracts, which are defined as urban civic, urban general, urban neighborhood, protected neighborhood and neighborhood school. The allowed uses in each tract are defined in the PUD. For example, in the urban civic area, rainwater harvesting, roof gardens, community recreation and murals are allowed. Manufactured tiny houses are allowed in tract 2. Single-family residential is permitted in tracts 2, 3, 4 and 5.

The Wheeler District is a mixed-use development, which incorporates a variety of housing styles with commercial and recreational spaces.

University of Oklahoma Institute for Quality Communities Interim Director Shane Hampton said the Wheeler District is significant in terms of city planning because of its close proximity to downtown.

“A lot of times (new urbanism) is an infill neighborhood,” he said. “It’s a smaller site. It’s not quite on a scale of this size. The location makes it pretty unique, I think.”

He said the joke in city planning circles is that new urbanism is actually old urbanism, in that it’s a return to how cities were developed in the 1920s, with the pedestrian or public transportation in mind.

“We’re building walkable, mixed-use communities again,” he said. “For 50 to 60 years, everything was separate, with offices in one area, housing in one, and retail in another. New urbanism is bringing back the idea that all of those can be integrated into a complete neighborhood in an attractive way.”

Besides being close to downtown, the Wheeler District is likely different from other new urbanism communities because of its signature piece, the Ferris wheel from the Santa Monica pier. It will be erected in May, Humphreys said. Construction on the foundation started this week.

“It will be open no later than July 4,” he said.

Wheeler’s infrastructure work starts this fall, with Phase 1 construction starting in early 2017. Phase 1 has more than 50 single-family homes, over 100 apartments, townhomes, condo-flats, 20,000 square feet of office space, and at least 3,000 square feet of retail or restaurants. Humphreys is keeping the former terminal building and renovating it into one of the community’s first hot spots.

“I’ve been working on this project for more than two years now,” he said. “I’m excited about the vision and excited to start building.”

[mkjeeves]

Manufactured tiny houses are allowed in tract 2.

I wonder if that's a manufactured home park with rental lots, or a block of tiny lots for tiny houses? I can't imagine what a tiny house lot would sell for. Maybe the intent is to allow people who can afford to buy in Wheeler to rent out a space and/or a tiny house in their back yard. I have friends in Portland who do that.

[OKCRT]

Tiny houses/lots prob. mean 1000 sq. ft or smaller homes built on zero lot line tracts.