Maps 3 new consideration...

[Patrick]

Something we could consider 10 years from now:

Ford Center for NHL
A new state of the art arena for NBA.

But, get the NBA team first, have them play in the Ford Center for a few years, then build them a new arena.

[Patrick]

Keep in mind that any NBA team would bare at least part of the cost of whatever arena they play in. No city is just going to give them one... At best, they get some tax incentives and sponsorships but they still have to come up with some money and pay rent.

There is an expense side to their ledger, not just revenue. If they could have a very nice arena by spending another $100 million in upgrades -- even if that was only for the next 5 to 10 years -- that would save the team a lot of money, too.

Everyone agrees the Ford Center is alread about mid-pack in terms of NBA arenas. Another $100 million (or less) would put it well up there and when things get to the point we can no longer keep up -- and we'll see that coming years ahead -- that's when we build a new arena.

In the mean time, we need to allow for it

That sounds more like the plans city leaders have right now. With improvements made to the Ford Center, they're estimating about a 20 year life for the arena. You have to remember....the Ford Center is very basic. With $100 million in improvements, it could be made into one of the nice arenas in the league. It will never be an American Airlines Center, but in my opinion, the American Airlines Center was way overpriced.

To be honest with you, I understand where the citizens of Seattle are coming from. They could have a really nice arena for $200-300 million. I think Bennett set the bar high on purpose......because he knew the citizens wouldn't be stupid enough to approve it. And if they did, he'd make out like a bandit.

[BG918]

Wait to build the new arena, the Ford Center is fine for now. Lay the groundwork though for the new arena by building a new convention center south of the blvd. (as outlined in Core to Shore) thus freeing up the Cox to be demolished and replaced by a new arena in the FUTURE, build a light rail starter line connecting the soon-to-be booming area of downtown by the Ford Center and new blvd. with Bricktown, midtown, and the OUHSC, and fund the construction of a new cultural attraction somewhere in downtown.

MAPS III needs to be a balance of attracting visitors with the convention center, OKC residents with the LRT starter line through downtown to major areas of employment and future urban residential, and both with a world-class cultural attraction downtown. What that cultural attraction will be would have to be determined, whether it be a contemporary arts museum, science center, or my choice: national severe weather museum.

[jbrown84]

Good points, Malibu. Considering Bennett was supposedly putting up 200 of the $500 million in Seattle, maybe he should pay for the improvements.

[Patrick]

Good points BG. The Cox Center location could be used for a new arena 10-15 years from now, after a new convention center is built south of I-40. The NBA team could get that arena, and maybe we could use the Ford Center to attract an NHL team.

At this point, I'm just not sure a 50K seat dome or stadium would be worth it in OKC, unless we're going for an NFL team. San Antonio has one in the Alamo Dome, and they proved that a larger dome just wasn't conducive for NBA. That's why they now have the ATT Center for the Spurs.

[jbrown84]

Plus if it's an arena floor big enough for a football field, then it's way too big for NBA. Just wouldn't work.

[Patrick]

Didn't work for the Spurs. Went to a Spurs game in the Alamo Dome, and it was too large and spread out.

[okclee]

And BTW, for $100 million, we can turn Ford Center into a pretty top notch arena, with all of the glass, bells and whistles, etc.

It's more like comparing a Toyota to a Lexus. They both have the same drive train. Just one has the fancy asthetics, and the other is plain. Let's make the upgrades on the Toyota, and turn it into a Lexus.

Before................................




After..................................

[Patrick]

This is the facility where the Miami Heat play...was built in 1999. The Ford Center is surely nicer then it.

[Patrick]

Or what about where the Spurs play:

[Patrick]

The Ford Center is every bit as nice as:

[Patrick]

Detroit's arena doesn't look all that either:

[Patrick]

And The United Center:

[Kerry]

This will probably get deleted but building a new arena in OKC is the dumbest idea yet. If your offended by this then good, you should be. The Ford center is only 5 years old. Granted it was not built with all of the amenties of the Staples Center or the AA Center, but it doesn't have to be.

The only thing these places have more of are the luxury suites. OKC doesn't need 175 suites like the Staples Center or the 143 suites in the AA Center. Who the hell would buy these in OKC. The Ford Center has 56 suites. Meanwhile ARCO Arena is Sacramento only has 30. TD Waterhouse in Orlando has 26 suites. Delta Center in St Lake City has 56. The Quicken Loans arena in Cleveland has 98 suites but only 28 are in the lower part. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

If OKC had 3, 4, or 5 professional tennats then you could make an arguement for larger arena but we don't. I think what we will see is about $40 million in upgrades. The entrances will improved, some glass added to the exterior, and maybe seating turned into suites but a new stadium is not in the works.

And one final thing - the Sonics are not going to KC. You would have to be stupid to think that.

[Pete]

I think we all agree a new arena will be needed at some point, it's just when and where.

I don't think the current site of the Cox Center is big enough for the type of convention center we'll want down the road, so it makes more sense to put that just south of the Ford Center so we'll have plenty of room to build and expand.

Seems to me if and when we need/want a world-class arena, it could be built on the Cox site which already has some infrastructure -- such as underground parking and connection to the Underground -- that would be useful.


So, for Maps 3, I don't think we need to contemplate a new arena, just some improvements to the Ford Center. Then, we focus on the more immediate need of convention space while still having access to that at the Cox Center in the short term.


Plus, as much as we all hope the NBA moves here and becomes a raging success, you never know what is going to happen five years down the road. The team could be bought and relocated for all we know. I *love* the fact we already have a good arena in place and don't have to go spend hundreds of millions. Let's continue to be smart about this and spend the big bucks once we've gotten some real use out of the Ford Center and know the NBA is here to stay.

[jbrown84]

That Miami arena is UGGGHH-ly. And of course no one would say that NO's arena is more attractive than the Ford.

[Patrick]

For comparison, here's the Ford Center:

[John]

What we're aiming to build is something along the lines of the FedEx Forum, Charlotte Center, Conseco Fieldhouse, or AT&T Center.

It's not the aesthetics we're talking about, it's fan/player amenities, layout, suites/club space, etc...

[PUGalicious]

Patrick, it's not us you have to sell this to. It's whatever prospective team that is deciding whether or not to make Oklahoma City its new home.

[Pete]

I've been to the Staples Center plenty of times and it's nothing great. In fact, it's 3 years older than the Ford Center. The huge amount of suites really detracts from the atmosphere because not only are all the fat cats inside and detached from the game, the upper level of seating -- fully half the seats in the place -- seem like they are in another building.

Even if you could come up with the money, it doesn't seem responsible to spend half a billion dollars on a basketball venue. Every community has lots of other needs... Why not build one for $200 mil and use the rest for other things?

Think about what you could do with $300-$400 million in Oklahoma City... That's about what all of the first MAPS program cost -- *including* the Ford Center!

[Patrick]

As I said, I don't blame Seattle legislators for pushing off the $500 million arena. They could still build a $200 million arena, and spend $300 million on schools or something....and still end up with a nice arena. The people of Seattle are the smart ones here.

[Patrick]

This will probably get deleted but building a new arena in OKC is the dumbest idea yet.

Kerry, your idea won't get deleted. You're always welcome to your opinions here.

[Pete]

We've talked about this before but one of the easy ways to upgrade the Ford Center and add amenities would be to expand it to the southwest after I-40 is demolished and the off-ramp is removed.

I could see a big atrium that would front the new boulevard & Robinson:

[Spartan]

It's a very spartan place.

Hey! What's wrong with that?

[okclee]

Kerry, your idea won't get deleted. You're always welcome to your opinions here.

Why would you think that you would be deleted?