Tipping

[Jersey Boss]

Tipped employees receive the balance between $2.13/hour and $7.25/hour from the employer if the balance isn't made up by tips, they do not make just $2.13/hour if they suck and don't get any tips.

Do you know of any tipped employees that have had the balance made up by their employer? While this is the way it is supposed to be I doubt the reality is such. Any servers here to comment? How do you differentiate the good servers from bad if you are expected to tip before service is rendered? Do you endorse the concept of tipping for counter service? What is the justification?

[sooner88]

It's always interesting to me how restaurants decide to add the tip line on receipts. I've noticed places like Freebirds even do.

[OkiePoke]

It's always interesting to me how restaurants decide to add the tip line on receipts. I've noticed places like Freebirds even do.

Why wouldn't they? It is free money.

[TheTravellers]

It's always interesting to me how restaurants decide to add the tip line on receipts. I've noticed places like Freebirds even do.

Probably the default for their software, might as well leave it and make some free money (as OkiePoke said).

[Urbanized]

If there is a tip line, it would be against the law for the restaurant to keep the money. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it would be breaking federal labor law.

That said, I also am completely irritated by being prompted for a tip for counter service. If someone waits on me, I am a generous tipper. If someone rings me up, I fetch my own drink, fetch my food when it's ready, and bus my own table? Why in the hell am I being asked for a tip again?

[Pete]

^

I feel exactly the same way and hate feeling bad for having to line out the tip line while the person taking my money is standing right there.

They even do the tip line thing at Dominos and other pizza places where the whole point is you are going way out of your way to pick something up and save them time and money.

[Urbanized]

^

I feel exactly the same way and hate feeling bad for having to line out the tip line while the person taking my money is standing right there...

Which is totally part of the reason they do it.

[Anonymous.]

I have had a bartender place my change from a $20 (I got one drink) UNDERNEATH a tip jar. Like they lifted up the jar/vase and set it back down on top of my money, whilst having my hand out to receive it. I was so taken back, I looked at her to see if she was joking/smiling - and she went about the next order like it was normal routine.

I was so offended that I continued to go to that specific bartender the rest of the night and proceed to tip nothing each time.

Tipping has gotten out of control, and it is the government's fault for letting restaurant/bar owners get away with it.


Anyways back to topic, I am enjoying reading the reviews, can't wait to check this place out this summer.

[dankrutka]

I post this every time the tipping discussion comes up: Should Tipping Be Banned? - Freakonomics Freakonomics

It convinced me. I'm in favor of banning tipping.

[Pete]

I post this every time the tipping discussion comes up: Should Tipping Be Banned? - Freakonomics Freakonomics

It convinced me. I'm in favor of banning tipping.

Very interesting stuff.

I hate the whole idea behind tipping. There are tons and tons of jobs where service is provided and tipping has never been in the equation.

Why not just pay people in restaurants and bars fairly and train and reward them to provide good service, which is exactly happens in every other type of job in the U.S.?


I've never felt waiters and bartenders provide better service than anyone else and they are typically paid -- if you include tips -- way better than most others in service jobs.

[BBatesokc]

Correct on the old school way of thinking. TIPS = To Insure Proper Service. Originally, tips were given up front to make sure you got taken care of.

To be fair, the practice of tipping was imported from Europe and was often considered a reinforcement of the separation of classes - offered by the wealthy to the socially inferior. Not to mention, 20% was certainly not the 'norm' for a very long time. I worked as a bartender for several years. While I can see where To INSURE Prompt Service (TIPS) might imply paying in advance, I don't believe I've every actually seen it described in that order in anything I've ever read. I guess I could Google it, but its hard enough to type this on my phone.

[Plutonic Panda]

Man, I just don't understand this kind of stuff. If you don't like tipping, fine, don't tip. But you want to go and ban it for everyone? Let's ban tips and smoking inside of a CIGAR bar. lol okay.*(Not referring to a single poster just more towards what I have seen on OKCTalk in general so that includes me)* I'm going to start to keep a list and adding to it every time I hear someone wanting to ban something that they could simply just not participate in. It's a person freedom thing. If I own a business and want my coworkers who have worked their asses off to be able and have the opportunity to make a tip I should be able to. But you want to ban that so I can't choose to have that system in my business? A business I own in a supposedly free country?

I haven't read that article and honestly probably won't because this isn't a big issue to me in this single instance but it just gets annoying seeing people wanting to ban everything they like.

[ctchandler]

I don't know anybody that works for tips, so can't answer this, but I'd be surprised if people went home after work and only got paid $2.13/hour, it's against the law (and yes, I know wage theft violations happen all the time, everywhere, but do you think anybody would work for someone for long if all they got was $2.13/hour?)

TheTravellers,
What is against the law? Waitstaff is exempt from minimum wage law if that's what you are referring to. Just curious what you meant.
C. T.

[Uptowner]

So you think the service would be just as good as if the servers made ohh say $10/hr vs tipped up to $25 at high end establishments or bars? Let's look at some jobs that pay the same per hour no matter how fast they work COMBINED with the fact that to keep the prices where you're satisfied and "getting a jolly good bargain" they have to reduce staff.

Home Depot
Sam's club
Fast food in general
The mother freaking postal service

Now if you think $14.99 for the enchilada platter was a lot with a $3 tip on top. How about the enchiladas cost $20 to pay everyone's labor + they're no longer motivated to hustle via a "harder work = higher pay" model.

I've been to all sorts of countries with no tipping. And the service sucks!! With the exception of France. Where there actually IS tipping, just not at a percentage rate. I.e. If your server was impressive you leave him a euro or two. He took excellent care of your medium sized party and paired all the wines, a tenner.

And the reason it doesn't work like 8-5 jobs is it takes a lot of abuse from customers and many hours of behind the scenes scrubbing and scraping gum from under tables, polishing silverware hours on end, getting yelled at because the kitchen read the order wrong and put onions on the Jack Daniels glazed sirloin and now it has to be remade because they can't stand the taste of onions and they're demanding a free meal. Children are screaming. What do you mean it's not gluten free??? Hell they deserve it. It only gets worse when alcohol is involved.

You think the average person with a bachelors in applied science wants to put up with that anywhere until 11pm-3am AND work every single holiday, you think they'd want to work the weekends for the same $/hr that they'd make coasting on a Monday lunch? Missing all the parties, all the sporting events, all the concerts? It takes a special breed.

I know I tend to get a little ranty but after working everything from grocery to burger flipper to auto parts to bartending before getting my career off the ground. I definitely throw my hat into the "tipping is good and ensures quality service" ring. I drop a couple bucks in the jar for Mongolian BBQ or burrito bars. A buck for counter service if the teller is polite and helpful.

PS at cultivar today our cashier came and dropped the food and asked if we wanted anything from the bar. That's a step forward! On a sad note the quality had dropped. Someone forgot to toss the lamb in the adobo sauce. Hopefully an isolated incident.

[TheTravellers]

TheTravellers,
What is against the law? Waitstaff is exempt from minimum wage law if that's what you are referring to. Just curious what you meant.
C. T.

This is what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped..._United_States says:

The American federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any pay period, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate.

[ctchandler]

This is what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped..._United_States says:

The American federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour during any pay period, the employer is required to increase cash wages to compensate.

TheTravellers,
I believe this only applies to restaurants doing business across state lines (inter-state commerce). Places like Cultivar are covered by state laws, not federal laws. A good example would be Ted's Cafe Escondido, they started with one store on 68th and N. May, expanded in Oklahoma and the federal law didn't apply, now they are in Kansas and Missouri so the federal law does apply in all locations. I stand to be corrected, but I'm fairly sure I am correct on this.
C. T.

[TheTravellers]

TheTravellers,
I believe this only applies to restaurants doing business across state lines (inter-state commerce). Places like Cultivar are covered by state laws, not federal laws. A good example would be Ted's Cafe Escondido, they started with one store on 68th and N. May, expanded in Oklahoma and the federal law didn't apply, now they are in Kansas and Missouri so the federal law does apply in all locations. I stand to be corrected, but I'm fairly sure I am correct on this.
C. T.

Tipped employee labor law doesn't have anything to do with interstate commerce (I don't think), just that different states have different requirements for tipped employees and credits and all the other weirdness that goes into that. Here's some info that backs me up on this, I believe (I can't find anything from OK's Dept of Labor - their website sucks, none of their statues/rules/laws are online there, and the state statutes don't appear to address tipped employees):

Some FAQs About Tipped Employees and the Minimum Wage - Hasbrook & Hasbrook

Relevant part of that link is this:

2. What is the minimum wage for a tipped employee? The minimum wage for almost all Oklahoma workers under both federal and state law is $7.25/hour. Employers are required to make sure their tipped employees are receiving that minimum wage.

That is supposed to be accomplished in two ways:

a. Oklahoma employers are required to pay tipped employees base pay of $3.625/hour. That’s half the required minimum wage. That is Oklahoma’s requirement, which exceeds the federal required base pay for tipped employed of $2.13/hour. Oklahoma employers must meet the state requirement.

b. If an employee earns enough tips to cover the other half of the minimum wage, an employer is allowed to treat those tips as a “tip credit” and consider the minimum wage as met. However, if the tips are not enough to cover the remaining half of the minimum wage, the employer must pay the remainder, so that the tipped employee ends up earning the minimum.

For example, Jo, an excellent waitress at an upscale restaurant, makes $15/hour in tips. Janeen, an average waitress at a burger joint, makes $7/hour in tips. Jim, who really needs to find another line of work, makes $2/hour in tips.

Jo’s, Janeen’s and Jim’s Oklahoma employers pay each of them base pay of $3.625/hour. Jo’s and Janeen’s tips are enough to cover the remainder of their minimum wage as a “tip credit.” Joe is still coming up short; his employer must pay an additional $1.625/hour to bring Joe’s wage up to the minimum.

Fact Sheet - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - U.S. Department of Labor

So I'm curious as to what Ted's situation was - was the employer only paying employees $3.63 (apparently the OK tipped employee minimum wage because of the 50% tip credit?) and not the full wage if they didn't make enough tips? Or something else? If the former, then I believe the employees may have had a case they could've filed against Ted's with the OK DOL.

[Uptowner]

Ok state law says employers must make up the difference if a $2.13/hr employee is not tipped up to $7.25. I would imagine that follows the federal minimum wage act.

[ctchandler]

Ok state law says employers must make up the difference if a $2.13/hr employee is not tipped up to $7.25. I would imagine that follows the federal minimum wage act.

Uptowner,
If it is in fact a state law (and I have no reason to doubt you), that's a completely different ballgame. My only question to TheTravellers was whether the federal government had the right to enforce labor laws on restaurants that didn't do business outside of Oklahoma. And to answer TheTravellers question about Ted's, I was only using it as an example of a company that started out in OKC and then expanded into other states. They would be under state laws until the expansion and then federal laws would apply. So, now we don't have to "duke it out"! I was going to ask my friend at Old Chicago's but then it dawned on me that they have always been multi-state while they were in Oklahoma. And of all things, my granddaughter works at Cool Greens, an OKC restaurant(s) but I didn't think to ask her. Now, I don't need to.
C. T.

[ctchandler]

Since we have totally gone off topic with this "Tip" thing, a couple of things come to mind. Somebody said that at one time you would tip in advance "To insure proper service". Well, what if your wait person doesn't care, you tip and they burn you with lousy service. Reminds me of a fellow worker at Hertz that was lazy. He wondered why he didn't advance and got poor reviews/raises. I told him to work harder and they would pay him more and his response was "If they would pay me more, I would work harder". I have done a lot of traveling and eaten at places that I will never go to again. Why tip? They will never see me again. I tip to show appreciation for good service. It doesn't matter that I will never be served by the server again. I don't know if how I do it is good or bad, but I do know that at the places I frequent, I am treated like royalty.
I think I'm done!
C. T.
p.s My opinion has to do with the tenth amendment to the constitution and my 72 years of living in this country. Of course, the 72 years could be all baloney, but I have picked up a few things along the way.

[Uptowner]

Uptowner,
If it is in fact a state law (and I have no reason to doubt you), that's a completely different ballgame. My only question to TheTravellers was whether the federal government had the right to enforce labor laws on restaurants that didn't do business outside of Oklahoma. And to answer TheTravellers question about Ted's, I was only using it as an example of a company that started out in OKC and then expanded into other states. They would be under state laws until the expansion and then federal laws would apply. So, now we don't have to "duke it out"! I was going to ask my friend at Old Chicago's but then it dawned on me that they have always been multi-state while they were in Oklahoma. And of all things, my granddaughter works at Cool Greens, an OKC restaurant(s) but I didn't think to ask her. Now, I don't need to.
C. T.

Under no circumstances anywhere are you allowed to let someone work for less than $7.25. Supplemented by tips or not. That's a federal law that kicked in around 2010. I think the states have to add it as part of their elaborated Dept of labor statutes that include various immigrant labor laws, age restrictions, etc.

I remember this from a restaurant I invested in a few years ago where the poor kids working lunch the first few weeks weren't making enough tips to meet minimum wage. So the accountant supplemented hourly to get up to minimum and within a few weeks they we're humming along and happy.

[Uptowner]

Since we have totally gone off topic with this "Tip" thing, a couple of things come to mind. Somebody said that at one time you would tip in advance "To insure proper service". Well, what if your wait person doesn't care, you tip and they burn you with lousy service. Reminds me of a fellow worker at Hertz that was lazy. He wondered why he didn't advance and got poor reviews/raises. I told him to work harder and they would pay him more and his response was "If they would pay me more, I would work harder". I have done a lot of traveling and eaten at places that I will never go to again. Why tip? They will never see me again. I tip to show appreciation for good service. It doesn't matter that I will never be served by the server again. I don't know if how I do it is good or bad, but I do know that at the places I frequent, I am treated like royalty.
I think I'm done!
C. T.
p.s My opinion has to do with the tenth amendment to the constitution and my 72 years of living in this country. Of course, the 72 years could be all baloney, but I have picked up a few things along the way.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....leaving-a-tip/

This is the first thing Google pulled up on etymology for "tip" but I assure its not an acronym for "to insure proper service" that actually a little aggravating to let people think you get bad service of you don't tip up front. The people at jimmy's egg make the same hourly as mahogany. The difference is tips and professionalism. Harder work, better service, higher ticket prices, better tips. The waiters in fine dining make upwards of 50k a year.

So T.I.P.S. > I alway pay cash in bars. And I usually tip big up front followed up by a buck a round, this does make the service come faster and the pours a little heavier. But I'd never apply this to a restaurant.

[TheTravellers]

... My only question to TheTravellers was whether the federal government had the right to enforce labor laws on restaurants that didn't do business outside of Oklahoma.....
C. T.

I'm pretty sure that yes, they do have that right, and almost all states adhere to/defer to federal labor law for the most part.

[ctchandler]

I'm pretty sure that yes, they do have that right, and almost all states adhere to/defer to federal labor law for the most part.

Then my question is, what gives the states right to the federal government to control wages? I would like to know what "loophole" they found to dictate wages to the states. I will do some research.
C. T.

[2Lanez]

Harder work, better service, higher ticket prices, better tips. The waiters in fine dining make upwards of 50k a year.

If you're a good waiter or bartender with a good gig, you are making well above this. Even here in OKC.