Road Rage incident

[kevinpate]

Stupid drivers can be dangerous.
Really stupid drivers can be really dangerous.
Some have poor impulse control.
And some dangerous drivers with poor impulse control carry firearms.

None of this is taught in driver's ed in OK. But it should be.

[mkjeeves]

waaait a second... i'm trying to picture the scenario you're describing here.

so if i'm understanding you right... you're sitting at a red light waiting to turn right. oncoming traffic is making a left in front of you but must have a green arrow because otherwise they would have to yield. instead of turning left into the inside lane, some of these cars turn wide into the outside lane. while these cars are turning and while you still have a red light, you make a right on red into the inside lane forcing some of these cars to correct and turn into the inside lane for them.

do i have this right? -M

Could be anytime both cars approach the intersection and turn the same direction under a green light both ways, (assuming no one else it going straight.) Seems to happen at cross streets feeding into major streets where everyone is usually turning and there aren't turn arrows.

[stile99]

I actually force people into the correct lane if I'm turning into my correct lane and they turn into the wrong (my) lane, I don't just sit and wait to turn right until all the dumbass left-turners empty out into my lane. I have a POS car and don't really care if they run into me, not my fault since I turned into the correct lane, and they'd get the ticket and have to pay for damages,

I'm curious what citation you think they'd get. It won't be failure to yield left turn if they have a green arrow giving them the right of way. However, considering the law says you may turn right on red only after stopping, then signaling, then proceeding only when safe to do so, yielding to pedestrians and other traffic, it's going to be a little difficult for you to convince the officer that it was safe to do so if you saw vehicles in the lane, but in your opinion they shouldn't have been, not to mention the complete failure to yield.

[TheTravellers]

waaait a second... i'm trying to picture the scenario you're describing here.

so if i'm understanding you right... you're sitting at a red light waiting to turn right. oncoming traffic is making a left in front of you but must have a green arrow because otherwise they would have to yield. instead of turning left into the inside lane, some of these cars turn wide into the outside lane. while these cars are turning and while you still have a red light, you make a right on red into the inside lane forcing some of these cars to correct and turn into the inside lane for them.

do i have this right? -M

Nope, I turn right on red into the right (correct) lane. 99.99% of the time, I turn left into the left lane and right into the right lane (only time I don't is if I'm turning right, but need to turn left super-soon after turning right and vice versa).

[TheTravellers]

I'm curious what citation you think they'd get. It won't be failure to yield left turn if they have a green arrow giving them the right of way. However, considering the law says you may turn right on red only after stopping, then signaling, then proceeding only when safe to do so, yielding to pedestrians and other traffic, it's going to be a little difficult for you to convince the officer that it was safe to do so if you saw vehicles in the lane, but in your opinion they shouldn't have been, not to mention the complete failure to yield.

Interesting, thought it was a law/statute, but haven't found it in a quick search. So it might just be in the driver's handbook, but not a law. Oh well, I'll take my chances, I generally don't look for a head-on collision when doing it, I go in between cars (since tons of people here are so slow to go at a green light, there's plenty of room between cars most of the time), and if somebody that's turning left happens to try to turn into my lane, well, I was there first, came to a complete stop, yielded to everything at the time, but most folks just go back into the lane they should've been in in the first place.

[BBatesokc]

If I had filmed this, would the police done anything about it?

Possibly. I've had kinda-sorta similar instances in the past. Not road rage related, but still close.

Had a young lady on S. Robinson flip me the bird once. I didn't think anything about it (I get that a lot), but within a few seconds a police officer pulled up and said he saw her flip me off and asked if I would sign a complaint. I said if "yes" was the answer he was looking for, then okay, I'd sign it. He proceeded to approach her and arrest her on some sort of pedestrian city violation. Not just a ticket, but actually arrested her and transported her. Obviously he was out to get her and just needed/wanted an excuse. I later found out he was just going to ticket her but she didn't have an ID on her so he took her downtown to get her finger prints for a positive ID.

Another time I was walking inside a restaurant with my wife and some guy driving by yelled an obscenity directed towards her (she was dressed rather nice for our dinner). Being a hot head I ran into the street and motioned for him to come back. As he was apparently going to go around the block and come back, a police officer hit his lights in the parking lot across the street to get my attention. I told him what happened. As the driver came back by - with his window down - the officer told him to pull over. We went inside to eat. The cop and the guy were out there for awhile and I eventually saw him give the guy a ticket. Cop came inside and said it was for some version of a public disturbance.

Lastly, I had a pimp come up to my car once and start yelling and screaming.

About 10 minutes later I saw a cop stopping the pimp's prostitute and run her for warrants. I approached the officer and showed him my video of her pimp. The officer arrested the pimp for "making a threat of violence" because you could clearly hear him threaten me.

So, technically, yes the police could do something. I'm guessing it comes down to the individual cop and your persistence and knowledge of the law.

Our public disturbance ordinance is extremely vague and can be used most any time a police officer wants.

I often refer to my Oklahoma Statutes app on my phone and point out the statute I'd like to have an officer enforce - or at least allow me to sign a complaint regarding.

Someone mentioned a dashcam. Personally, I think this is your best defense in a road rage incident.

I have a few of these... and this is an excellent price...

New 4SIGHT 4SK606 The Original Dash Cam 2 Dashboard Camera The Lens Split Screen | eBay

I was fortunate the other day when a trucker did what truckers often do - turned on his turn signal and if you didn't move out of his way he was coming over regardless. Needless to say he hit me. He then proceeded to claim the lane was open and that I sped up to make sure he'd hit me so I could sue. Luckily, I had the incident on video so the driver got a ticket and his insurance had to pay all my repairs. Without video it was his word against mine. In this case I was probably still okay, but you never know.

Here's a still of the nutty truck driver....



All my cars have dash cams now.

[Martin]

Nope, I turn right on red into the right (correct) lane. 99.99% of the time, I turn left into the left lane and right into the right lane (only time I don't is if I'm turning right, but need to turn left super-soon after turning right and vice versa).

ok... so you're making a right on red. so the 'dumbass left-turners', as you call them, must be making a protected left since you have a red light. if that's the case, you're running a red light. regardless of whether or not those left-turners are entering into the correct lane, they have the right-of-way and you can't make your right on red until the intersection is clear. unless i'm misunderstanding your original post, what you're doing is more than a little wrong. -M

[jerrywall]

I can say, 20 or so years ago I got a ticket for swinging out to the outside lane during a turn, so unless that's changed it's also illegal.

[Martin]

I can say, 20 or so years ago I got a ticket for swinging out to the outside lane during a turn, so unless that's changed it's also illegal.

no doubt. guess i see a difference in severity between drivers who commit minor infractions out of ignorance and other drivers who purposefully drive aggressively and commit infractions just to prove some kind of point.

i mean, we're talking about somebody who deliberately launches his vehicle into an intersection on a red light causing drivers who have the right-of-way to swerve to avoid him putting multiple parties in real danger, just because he thinks that their driving habits aren't up to par. while one is certainly an infraction, the other is not only an infraction but certainly a form of road rage.

-M

[Urbanized]

I'm not sure I have been involved in a road rage incident for about 25 years... ...about the time I vowed to stop road raging, myself.

My number one guiding principle when driving is to do everything in my power to avoid making someone have to hit their brakes, change lanes, slow down, or even take their foot off the pedal as a result of my actions. Do I speed? Absolutely. Do I change lanes? Yes. But if I change lanes in front of you, you can bet that I'm going faster than you. If I turn in front of you, Mark it down that I won't be there when you get there. You will NOT have to account for me.

And if you do something rude to me, almost always chuckle, shrug it off, and shake my head at how dumb people can be. I don't take it personal. Life's too short, and giving in to road rage tends to make it even shorter.

[krisb]

So, my first few months back in Oklahoma have yielded more driving-related incidents than my previous 25 in California.

Yesterday morning, I was turning right onto NW 10th from Robinson. All the on-coming traffic was in the left lane, so I made my turn into the right lane.

Some idiot who was in the left hand lane either thought I was gong to pull out in front of him or quickly decided to change into the right hand lane as I pulled out. Either way, he blew his horn and continued to lean on it for a very long time (even though I had already pulled out into the roadway) and when I looked in my rearview he was right behind me frothing at the mouth and shooting me the finger.

Keep in mind the speed limit here is 30 MPH and everyone was slowing down for the red light at Broadway. Whatever the inconvenience to him (and I'm not sure I was even the slightest bit at fault here), it was very minor but he was losing it behind me and as soon as the light turned green he revved up and got right on my tail and almost hit me as I made the right turn onto Broadway.

I parked at the curb to hop into Coffee Slingers and he pulled up next to me -- stopping in the middle of traffic -- rolled down his window and went completely apesh!t. I didn't say a word, just went inside and he pealed off south, screeching away and still going completely mental.

What I should have done, of course, is pulled out my phone and recorded his tirade and threats, then filmed his license plate, etc.

Now, if I had done that would there be anything the police could or would do?

There is no excuse for his extreme behavior, but it would seem that you turned right on red into an intersection that was not clear...? Even if I was traveling in the left lane it would make me nervous for someone to turn when I have the right of way.

[Bill Robertson]

I'm not disputing the legality. If I'm caught I'll take the ticket. It's a habit I picked up riding in California. I'm not splitting the lane on a street glide sir. It's usually on a small frame Vespa. And I've never come close to contact with a vehicle. But does that give a motorist the right to punish me by trying to kill me???

http://youtu.be/LreWfR_p__M Here's a perfect example. Skip to 20 seconds in. The guy makes an illegal pass on a double yellow line. And is dished vigilante justice in the form of attempted murder.

It is something that could very easily tick off a car driver because they don't understand your motives. As an avid bicyclist and motorcycle rider for decades I'm against doing anything to unnecessarily tick off a driving public that doesn't think we should be on the road to begin with.
I've ridden both the bicycle and M/C with too many people that seem determined to prove their right to the road to the extent of making it more dangerous instead of less.

[Plutonic Panda]

ok... so you're making a right on red. so the 'dumbass left-turners', as you call them, must be making a protected left since you have a red light. if that's the case, you're running a red light. regardless of whether or not those left-turners are entering into the correct lane, they have the right-of-way and you can't make your right on red until the intersection is clear. unless i'm misunderstanding your original post, what you're doing is more than a little wrong. -M

Why does the intersection have to be clear? So two right turn drivers can't turn right at the same time if they have red? That makes no sense.

Travellers was in the right if he made the right turn on red(which is legal) and the other people turn left into THEIR lane(which is legal) and everyone gets along? It's the people turning left who turn into the wrong lane that are doing the wrong by making the right turn driver who is turning right onto HIS lane and forcing him to stop that are wrong.

[rte66man]

If you are westbound on 44 approaching the Hefner Parkway, the right hand lane is exit only. The lane coming west from May is supposed to Yield to the traffic coming off of 44. I had a guy chase me for 3 miles yelling f-bombs and trying to ram me after I dared to honk at him for ignoring the yield sign.

[Martin]

Why does the intersection have to be clear?

when turning right on red, the driver has to first come to a stop and then must yield to any traffic that has the right of way before proceeding... so effectively the intersection should be clear. can't believe this even has to be explained. -M

[Celebrator]

PS the worst driving I've ever seen is in the Orlando area. Everyone's doing 80 and people are crossing 3 lanes to the slow lane, then 3 lanes back to the passing lane through heavy traffic in their family trucksters. I think it has something to do with the proximity to Daytona intl Speedway.

100% correct. I moved here from Orlando in 2009, and the most aggressive, rude, and out-to-lunch drivers are down there. And it's not Daytona Int'l Speedway I don't think, it's a uniquely dangerous cocktail of aggressive jaded East Coast big city transplants (thought moving down there meant normal life was going to be a vacation and were wrong) aggressive jaded young people (mad at the world while they're working dead-end jobs in hospitality), and clueless vacationers from all over the world (who's brains are on vacation, too). It's terrible driving. Once, I got passed at a stop sign. AT A STOP SIGN! I actually have found driving here an absolute pleasure compared.

[Pete]

There is no excuse for his extreme behavior, but it would seem that you turned right on red into an intersection that was not clear...? Even if I was traveling in the left lane it would make me nervous for someone to turn when I have the right of way.

It was clear when I made my turn.

[Pete]

If you'd filmed him you might have ended up dead. People go stark raving mad when you film them being an idiot. It's a bit of a catch 22. But don't forget, people are packing around here

I thought of this as well.

Really, I probably handled it the best possible way which was just to ignore the guy. I literally think any other action would have escalated things as this dude had lost his ever-loving mind.

I'll never see him again and really what difference would it have made if I'd filmed him and then got the police involved? They would have probably done nothing and even if they had acted, that wouldn't have changed a thing.


I used to work in what was considered one of the 'worst' areas of Los Angeles and I never had one single problem. I've developed a pretty good sense of rising tensions and just politely and inconspicuously remove myself from the situation. Have done the same thing several times in bars where I've started to feel bad energy.

The bottom line is that most idiots like this have nothing to lose and I have everything to lose, so best not to engage and just move on.


I appreciate all the discussion and helping me think this through.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Why does the intersection have to be clear? So two right turn drivers can't turn right at the same time if they have red? That makes no sense.

Travellers was in the right if he made the right turn on red(which is legal) and the other people turn left into THEIR lane(which is legal) and everyone gets along? It's the people turning left who turn into the wrong lane that are doing the wrong by making the right turn driver who is turning right onto HIS lane and forcing him to stop that are wrong.

When I took driver's ed (many many moons ago) and got my license...Turning right, you were required to turn into the first available lane closest to the curb. HOWEVER, when turning left, you could turn into any available lane (assuming there's only one left hand turn lane). Which would put Travellers very much in the wrong in more ways than one lol

But like I said...It's been a long time, and I could be incorrect, or the information could have changed.

[stile99]

My number one guiding principle when driving is to do everything in my power to avoid making someone have to hit their brakes, change lanes, slow down, or even take their foot off the pedal as a result of my actions.

Did we have the same driver's ed teacher? One thing that man drilled into us every day was if we make a turn/merge/whatever and someone else has to hit their brakes, it was a bad turn/merge/whatever.

[Urban Pioneer]

10th and Broadway is a frustrating intersection as east and west do not have protected turn lanes but yet are now handling double the traffic due to the new exit ramp off of I-235.

During my morning commute into downtown, I usually take the alley behind the Community Foundation down to 9th as inevitably there will be a line of cars backed up unable to get through the intersection due to the heavy volume before the light cycles. Add a freight train disrupting the flow, and it is total chaos down there.

However, it sounds like you were traveling eastbound. Why this guy went mental is beyond me. Entering that intersection on a turn of any kind requires careful attention due to the poor street design, flow, and other activities. That whole area is a cluster f. The angled parking, the parallel parking, Rand Elliot's damn fake pavers and 80' wide street design, freight trains, and pedestrians literally having to run across the street.

The guy is mental, but if there ever were a location where road rage would happen, it would be at the intersection in front of our building.

[Urbanized]

Did we have the same driver's ed teacher? One thing that man drilled into us every day was if we make a turn/merge/whatever and someone else has to hit their brakes, it was a bad turn/merge/whatever.

If other drivers never have to react/respond to your actions, AND you are able to detach from your own ego and anger issues and find some sort of zen place while driving (not always easy), simply put you will likely NEVER be involved in a road rage incident.

Again, I drive fast and CONSTANTLY move in traffic. I am no slow lane camper, but even more importantly I am no FAST lane camper. The Golden Rule applies here, as much if not more than most facets of life. Chances when you see me I'll be going faster than you, but if not, I GUARANTEE that I won't be in your way.

[TheTravellers]

https://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/odm.html

Page 7-7 (6. Finish turn in proper lane) and 7-8 (DO NOT ENTER INTERSECTION IN RIGHT HAND LANE) are where I got my info from. So it's apparently just a suggestion to do that and not a law, oh well. And OKC is the only place I've lived where this happens with regularity - other drivers in pretty much all the other cities I've lived in seem to turn left into the left lane, right into the right lane and everybody gets along.

[Mel]

If people would only obey the rule of turning right in to the right lane and turning left into the left. Traffic would go so much smoother. I don't even try and do a right turn after stop if the opposing lane has any cars in it's left turn lane. I do not want to wreck to prove I am right.

If getting yelled at and flipped off is road rage then yeah, I have been on the receiving end a few times.

[mkjeeves]

Oklahoma Law (not a suggestion)

The driver of a vehicle intending to turn at an intersection shall do so as follows:

1. Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

2. Left turns. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left at an intersection shall approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of such vehicle. After entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection, as nearly as practicable, in the left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in such direction upon the roadway being entered. Whenever practicable, when leaving a two-way roadway, the left turn shall be made in that portion of the intersection to the left of the center of the intersection.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/osc...p?CiteID=82305

Bad road-hogging idea, even when it's not against the law.

Some states (e.g., Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas,Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Nevada, and North Carolina) prohibit entering the right lane when making the left turn.

Some states are less strict and allow drivers to complete a left turn into either lane of the cross street, e.g., California, Missouri,Texas. Consult your state's Drivers handbook for details.

https://driversed.com/driving-inform...eft-turns.aspx