Driver's School (traffic ticket)

[Tundra]

Im okay with a ticket as long as the cop wasn't hiding or sitting and waiting for me to screw up, I'd rather them be "patrolling" and catch me speeding, rather than just sitting there eating donuts waiting for me to screw up. Maybe if the were "patrolling" other crimes might be deterred as well, besides speeding....

[u50254082]

It's funny how we all start having opinions about speed limits and the police once we get a speeding ticket. I had the same experience last year on the broadway extension. OCPD was in an unmarked car in the left side breakdown lane and clocking people coming up behind (and over a hill).

And honestly, I was speeding, and the officer was "generous" and wrote it as a 10 over. The violation code was "ZPA". He said it was a fine only and wouldn't impact insurance, but I called at least a dozen attorneys in the metro area and got a dozen different answers.

I went with an attorney for representation (I was too busy with work to be driving to the court house, etc.) and he got a deferred adjudication ruling from the judge. 6 months of clean driving behavior on my part and all the charges were dropped, but I had to pay out the ass since the city still gets their money. I figured, why not take the chance to experience the American court system and not give in to the revenue generating 10 over speeding BS. You can take traffic school something like once every 3 years so you should save it for when you are found doing 120MPH in a 25MPH or something outrageous. Don't waste it on a 10 over.

Anyway, I have since then stopped speeding and run a radar detector now (which seems pointless since I don't speed). 98% of the patrol cars in the state use Ka band, except for some random Newcastle cops who still use K band and some HiPo CHiPs carry LIDAR guns. I still like to keep the detector on so I know when cops are around and what sort of patterns and times of day they utilize for speed traps. That all being said, I'll do at most 5 over posted now, even on the highway where it seems I've turned into an absolute nuisance.

If the state needs revenue, it needs to post a dozen HiPo cars down in Norman on I35 near the construction. Even with the posted 55 mph limit and 2 "here is your speed" signs, people still blow through there at 80MPH all day long.

[Pete]

Im okay with a ticket as long as the cop wasn't hiding or sitting and waiting for me to screw up, I'd rather them be "patrolling" and catch me speeding, rather than just sitting there eating donuts waiting for me to screw up. Maybe if the were "patrolling" other crimes might be deterred as well, besides speeding....

This guy was hiding behind a building at the bottom of the hill.

Interestingly -- and perhaps significantly -- he wrote on the ticket that he was traveling eastbound and that was 100% false. I saw him as soon as I passed him (I was headed west), he flicked on his lights and fell in right behind me. Why would he lie about this? To perhaps cover up for the fact he was setting a speed trap rather than being on patrol?

[u50254082]

This guy was hiding behind a building at the bottom of the hill.

Interestingly -- and perhaps significantly -- he wrote on the ticket that he was traveling eastbound and that was 100% false. I saw him as soon as I passed him (I was headed west), he flicked on his lights and fell in right behind me. Why would he lie about this? To perhaps cover up for the fact he was setting a speed trap rather than being on patrol?

It flat out doesn't matter. You don't get off on technicalities when the traffic court judge sides with the officer 99% of the time.

[oklip955]

Pete, I wish we were paid substaintially more. The old argument is that cops work a 40 hrs work week and so cannot work much part time were as firefighters work 24 hr shifts and so have days off and can work a part time job. Yah right. Most cops and firefighters are paid about the same. Sorry but that is life, personally experience x 28 yrs of working on a paid dept. (retired now)

[tfvc.org]

I know this is too little too late and has been mentioned before, I have a friend who used to live in some apartments just North of there and cops sit behind that VFW all the time. It is like driving through Noble, hiding behind hills right after the speed drops 10 mph.

I got a ticket last September going 63 in a 45 on S 54th st just past Portland. They love patrolling that road as well. Big wide road that looks like it should be 50-55 and getting people going to the airport. Luckily like you he reduced it to under 10 over. First ticket I had gotten in 5+ years,

[securityinfo]

Two words:

Valentine 1

[ctchandler]

Britton Road through old town Britton

Urbanized,
Actually, it's 25 mph. Going East on Britton, it's 35 till you hit Western, then it's 25 for about half a mile, then it's 35 again. After you cross Broadway, it's 45.
C. T.

[kevinpate]

Pete, if you are written up as 1-10, do not do driving school (which by the by, can be done online way cheaper than you are thinking.

If you are over 10 as written, fergitabout actual, it's what they charge that matters, then you go to the counter at OKC muni, you tell them you want to do driving school, pay a reduced amount (138 if I recall right) and are given a deadline to complete and turn in driving school certificate. Online school is a couple hours of mild pain and in the $25-40 range, so about the same as paying a ticket.

You can only do driving school once every 2-3 years, so do not use it up on a ticket that won't impact insurance.

If you want to yak on it in more detail, you are free to contact me.

[Bits_Of_Real_Panther]

"Can anyone think of any OKC major (as in section line) 4-lane road that has a 30 MPH speed limit?"

That stretch of 23rd from the Gold Dome to Penn is 30, plus they have those flashing yellow school slowdown lights too. People fly though

[Jeepnokc]

What we do is set the case for trial. If the officer shows up, we take the driving school at that point. If he doesn't show up and hasn't called in, the case is dismissed. Setting the case for trial does increase the court cost by $10 if you end up taking deal but costs nothing if officer doesn't show which does happen.

Pete, if you are written up as 1-10, do not do driving school (which by the by, can be done online way cheaper than you are thinking.

If you are over 10 as written, fergitabout actual, it's what they charge that matters, then you go to the counter at OKC muni, you tell them you want to do driving school, pay a reduced amount (138 if I recall right) and are given a deadline to complete and turn in driving school certificate. Online school is a couple hours of mild pain and in the $25-40 range, so about the same as paying a ticket.

You can only do driving school once every 2-3 years, so do not use it up on a ticket that won't impact insurance.

If you want to yak on it in more detail, you are free to contact me.

[Mike_M]

I was changing my insurance carrier last year and got a ticket for 11-20 over (at the Broadway speedtrap). I mentioned it to each of the insurance agents and they said it probably wouldn't make a difference in my rate, and the quotes were right on. Now they could've been cutting me a deal for switching, but I think if you have a generally clean record, one minor ticket isn't going to skyrocket your rates.

[Pete]

Pete, if you are written up as 1-10, do not do driving school (which by the by, can be done online way cheaper than you are thinking.

The school itself is only $25-$50, but the associated extra fee for the city is $150.

This on top of the $161 ticket.


As has been established, being cited for 1-10 over the limit (as I was) does not even get reported nor does it show on your driving record. So, I'm just going to have to suck it up and pay the $161 for a ridiculous speed trap.

[BBatesokc]

I used to get pulled over in that general area relatively often - at least 4-6 times for speeding. Never got a speeding ticket though. Did receive two different tickets on two different occasions.... The first was for brake light that was out - had no idea. The officer (female) was actually transporting a prisoner, saw it was me and pulled me over. It was later confirmed to me this was a policy violation. She shouldn't have initiated a minor traffic stop while transporting a prisoner (liability reasons). She actually had pulled me over or otherwise followed me on numerous occasions. I got tired of it and posted her pic and identity on my website. She left me alone after that and had someone else contact me about removing her pic if she left me alone going forward.

The second time was at NW 16th and Blackwelder. Again, another officer recognized me and began following me for some time. I turned east on NW 16th from Blackwelder and he immediately hit his lights.

I pulled immediately into the parking area of the then apartments on the SE corner (now The Mule).

The officer first said I didn't signal my turn. I told him that was not true and I did. When he refused to believe me I called for a supervisor. When the supervisor arrived I showed him that I had a dash camera and you could clearly hear the 'clicking' of my run signal.

The supervisor agreed and went back to speak to the officer. The officer then proceeded to re-write the ticket. this time for when I pulled into the apartment parking area. Even though my blinker can be heard in that instance too - he said I didn't initiate the blinker far enough away (I can't recall the exact number of feet required - lets go with 50-100').

I went to court and argued that there wasn't 50-100' between the intersection and the parking space I pulled into. I also argued that my blinker was on when I made the turn off Blackwelder onto 16th and that I turned on my blinker again when the officer initiated the stop.

Judge didn't care. Ticket stood.

The one legal lesson I learned was when you go to city traffic court to fight a ticket - pay the fee for a transcript to be made. If you don't, then you can't appeal the judge's decision. I think if I had paid that fee the judge may have ruled in my favor knowing I would have appealed otherwise.

[kevinpate]

Driving school and the 138 fee is, if memory recalls, in lieu of paying the ticket, not on top of the 161 ticket.

However, as a 1-10 ticket is not going to add points, and there is no cost savings at all (138+25 v. 161),
there no sound reason to give up the chance of using driving school in the next 3 years should one land a 12 or 15 over ticket, which will carry points and impact insurance.

Muni courts across the nation make their budgets on fines and costs. OKC is not near as harsh as some out there, but yeah, more harsh than others.

Word to the wise, do not get in trouble in MWC. It can cost one way more than a similar offense in state court can run, even a first timer.

Oh and jeep is right that if the officer does not show or call in, the case is dismissed. Of course, many drivers have shelled out for counsel at that point and will still have that expense.

Most all of my muni work is for existing clients or their family members while something else is happening in their lives. I don't really know what the going rate for muni only work is.

[Pete]

Driving school and the 138 fee is, if memory recalls, in lieu of paying the ticket, not on top of the 161 ticket.

That is not my understanding.

Can anyone else confirm one way or another?

[Anonymous.]

I will never forget when I was ticketed on Turner Turnpike for going 68 in a 65. On New Years many years ago when the speed limit was 65mph all along the pike. I couldn't believe it. So you never know when they will get you. Seems like in the past few years they are even worse and this is the reason many people don't like the cops here in OKC even though this was a OHP that got me. Last year I got a ticket going down Eastern just south of 2-40 on my way to Moore. I was going along no cars in sight 55mph and the speed limit was 45mph. I thought it was 55mph but he nailed me for about $170.00 but at least it didn't go on my insurance.

New Years, he was fishing for more than a 3mph speeding ticket.

[Jeepnokc]

The correct answer is:

If you elect to do driving school, the cost is $138.00 admin fee for court plus cost of the driving school which is between $25.00-$50.00 depending on the course. There is no other fee or fine.

(FYI....always do the online course)

This is per the court clerk

[stile99]

I wonder if they heavily imply about still paying the ticket, perhaps to the point of outright lying, because that was my impression as well. Of course, I also could have gotten the wrong impression, and this was MANY years ago, but the last ticket I received, I wasn't even speeding and believe the cop simply picked the wrong car to pull over. (It's either that or he had no idea how to operate the damn thing, since I was doing 2 MPH *under* the posted limit.) So obviously I looked into fighting the ticket, and it basically came down to three options. 1: Pay the ticket. I can't recall the exact charge, just for funsies let's say $100. 2: Contest the ticket and win. This results in a $100 court charge. 3: Contest the ticket and lose. Now it's pay the $100 court charge AND the $100 ticket fine.

As has been noted, I very distinctly got the impression it was a carefully-engineered money making scheme, designed to just make you pony up the dough. If you resist and somehow win (HA!), they still get their money. If you resist and lose, they get double. In my mind it became a question of how much do you want to pay, $100 or $200. When looked at that way, the choice was obvious. So then the question became do you want to just cut a check for the $100, or piss away at least a day's worth of time/income and THEN cut the check for $100. Again, the choice was obvious.

[TheTravellers]

Police departments should have figured out a long time ago to split off the traffic cops from the rest of their ranks because for most people who vote and make the decisions about how the police are funded and supported, their only interaction with the force is when they get pulled over and ticketed and most the times the person doing it is a jackhole in the process.

I've always believed this is one of the main reasons firefighters are revered and paid substantially more.

I've literally never had any interaction with the police other than traffic violations and the huge majority of those have left me spitting mad. Pull me over for going 15+ over the speed limit or racing through a school zone and I deserve it. But 90% of the time it's some idiot in Warr Acres or Nichols Hills or on this absurdly marked road and they are just taxing you for doing what everyone else has been doing for years.

BTW, cops in California seemed to be much better about this. They just want traffic to move and many times I saw them actually stopping to help people, rather than trying to persecute them.

In Oklahoma, besides this incident, I was ticketed for going 43 in a 40 (I swear), 39 in a 30 and 47 in a 40. These were all in the 80's before I moved away and I really hoped the city had changed in this regard. Also, I got pulled over for running a stop sign where I actually saw the cop sitting there, took good care to stop and he STILL pulled me over saying that I never came to a full, resting stop.

So incredibly petty. I think I only had 3 tickets in 25 years in California and in all cases I was driving too fast and deserved what I got.

Welcome to OKC! I had the same problem here when I moved back - never had *any* tickets in WI, IL, IN, or WA (one warning, but no tickets) for almost 20 years, then come back here and get 3 in one f-ing year due to the wonderful revenue enhancement program of metro-area cops. Had to take an online driving school, but went out right damn away and got a radar detector, and haven't gotten a ticket since. So the moral of the story is - OKC metro-area traffic cops suck worse than traffic cops in other states (surprise) and go buy a radar detector, it's well worth the investment. It's interesting now that I can see (and hear) radar - I find that almost every single OKC cop is driving with radar on, while sheriffs and OHP almost always drive with their radar off.

[Jersey Boss]

You pay court costs even if found not guilty? That would sure incentive ticketing every car coming down the road.

[u50254082]

What is also infuriating is other states regularly allow you to plead a speeding ticket down to a non-moving parking violation of $20. Not an option in OK in even the slightest.

[sooner88]

What is also infuriating is other states regularly allow you to plead a speeding ticket down to a non-moving parking violation of $20. Not an option in OK in even the slightest.

While a ~$160 - $200 ticket is annoying to some, it is devastating to others. What happens if they aren't able to pay their ticket? If they choose to feed their children / pay rent / utilities, etc. vs. pay the fine? Is their a warrant issued which leads to more fines and/or jail time?

[Pete]

^

Yep. When it's something silly like this where they don't even think it's worth reporting on your driving record, it functions exactly like a tax. A very big tax.

As others have said, it's just a revenue generation scheme and there is really no fairness or legitimate due process.

It also should be said that if you want to contest in court, you have to take time off work because it's always in the middle of a week day. That's another big burden on the working class.


I can say the one thing that was way, way worse about California: Parking tickets. Any municipality (and there were hundreds just in the L.A. area) can come up with whatever fine they want. They all employ these low-wage meter watchers in little electric vehicles and they see meters about to expire and sit there and wait for them to click over, then issue like a $75 ticket. Yes, $75 for not feeding a quarter into the meter.

They also do this ridiculous thing that if you don't have your front license plate displayed -- which 95% of the people do not -- they write you a ticket for that as well. So the little city of El Segundo or wherever pulls in about $150 a throw and they do this dozens and dozens of times an hour. Why on earth is a *city* fining you for your state license plate?? Don't know but it doesn't matter, they can and they do and they are highly, highly incentivized to do so without any real opportunity to contest.

[Tritone]

Like many, I've been stopped a few times. Usually it's just a "keep it down, okay?" One stop really sticks in my mind. Newcastle, years ago when highway 9 east to Norman was two-lane. "I need your license and insurance. You were doing 56 in a 55 zone and you're getting a ticket." Wow!