Driver's School (traffic ticket)

[Pete]

So, I got a ticket for going 41 MPH on 10th Street west of Western. This is a stretch that is divided 4-lane road on a major thoroughfare... I honestly had no idea the speed limit was 30 and I'm sure very few people do either, which is why one of OKC's Finest hid himself behind a building and decided that the best use of his time in the aid of OKC's public safety was to pull over and ticket someone going 10 MPH over a ridiculously low speed limit.

One more editorial comment: He was basically writing the ticket before I got a word out of my mouth, being I had no idea the speed limit was 30 because on most major roads it is 40 and that I had just moved from California and wasn't familiar with that stretch. And it was only 41 MPH for crying out loud.... How about a warning? He didn't even listen, he was there to write tickets.

I have not had any type of violation in many years so now I have to decide if I want to suck it up and go to traffic school to keep this off my driving record.

Problem is, that's an additional $200 (!) on top of the $161 for the ticket.

My car is older (and so am I) and thus my car insurance is very low.

Is it worth $200 to keep this off my record?

[turnpup]

So sorry you got caught in that speed trap! We've seen them parked by that VFW post several times lately, so it's clearly a revenue-making scheme. They love to camp out at the bottom of that hill. Hell, even if you were going 30, you'd have to be riding your brakes to keep it that speed right there.

If I were you, I'd just eat the cost of the ticket and move on. But I'm saying this from the perspective of somebody who hasn't gotten a ticket in probably 20 years, so don't have much information.

[Pete]

Yes, forgot about the hill part.

It's absolutely absurd to ticket people there unless they are going unreasonably fast, which I was not.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^^^
A perfect example of traffic engineers building a road for more speed than is wanted or safe. At that point it is left up to law enforcement, because people tend to intuitively drive the speed that a road LOOKS like belongs there, rather than what is posted on a sign. The built environment dictates how people act/react; not signs. If they wanted 30 MPH through there, they should have built a 30 MPH road, not a 50 MPH road.

[Pete]

Frankly, I am surprised I wasn't driving faster given the setting -- divided 4-lane road with nothing along the north side (this is the completely empty stretch that drew a multi-use proposal) and going downhill.

It's stuff like this that makes people unsympathetic to the police department's constant cry for more officers. And him being a jackass didn't make it any better.

[Paseofreak]

Revenue, baby, revenue! It's a sad, sad thing when the government turns against the people with malice and afore thought.

[sooner88]

I drive that part of 10th once or twice a month. Sporadically enough that I forget what the speed limit is, but I've caught myself multiple times going 40-45 before I see a speed limit sign. In no way does it feel like you should be going that slow.

[Pete]

Can anyone think of any OKC major (as in section line) 4-lane road that has a 30 MPH speed limit?

I cannot.

[Urbanized]

Here is an excellent NACTO page discussing design/target/posted speeds and their relationships: Design Speed - National Association of City Transportation Officials

[adaniel]

Can anyone think of any OKC major (as in section line) 4-lane road that has a 30 MPH speed limit?

I cannot.

Broadway, between 13th and 23rd, which is also a massive speed trap. The cops frequently hide in the bakery lot just on the other side of the hill.

[Pete]

^
Broadway, between 13th and 23rd, which is also a massive speed trap. The cops frequently hide in the bakery lot just on the other side of the hill.

Yes! Although Broadway isn't a section line road.

I was actually pulled over there once going about 40 but just received a warning.

[Urbanized]

Section line roads don't HAVE to be 4-lane, high-speed. It depends on the area and the availability of other arterials nearby. Pennsylvania, through Nichols Hills, is 25 MPH. Western Avenue where it runs through Wheeler district is proposed to be narrowed and reduced to 25 MPH.

[OKCDrummer77]

Can anyone think of any OKC major (as in section line) 4-lane road that has a 30 MPH speed limit?

I cannot.

MacArthur, just north of NW Expressway. In its defense, it is a somewhat hilly and curvy road right there as it goes through the "survey correction" that all section line roads go through at Wilshire Blvd.

[Urbanized]

Britton Road through old town Britton

[Pete]

^

Right, just that brief stretch and no doubt due to a pretty big curve that makes it very difficult to make a left turn off of Wilshire onto MacArthur.

I doubt many people are blazing through there due to the curve itself which tends to slow down traffic.

[rezman]

Pete, did the officer code the ticket so it wouldn't go on your insurance? I was stopped by OCPD on N Western between 150th & 164th. He said he clocked me @ 54 in the posted 40 zone, but wrote the ticket for 10 over to keep it off of my insurance, as anything 11mph and over will get their attention. I didn't have to say anything. He just came to my window, took my license, and came back with the ticket and told me how he wrote it, including the court date and how to pay for it, and to have a good day.

[Urbanized]

That section of 10th where you got your ticket was a fairly recent widening. It was late in Paul Brum's tenure and was widened mostly just "because it was there," if you listened to the Public Works explanations of the project. There were rarely actual TRAFFIC issues there that caused it, other than people coming off of I-44 and complaining that they couldn't drive 40 MPH straight to Saint Anthony or wherever they were headed.

In retrospect, it would have been much healthier for the surrounding neighborhoods if there had been a single lane, a parking lane, and either a center turn lane in lieu of the median or slip lanes in the median instead. The 4 lane, fast traffic and no street parking approach has made it that much more difficult to attract commercial and mixed use projects on that corridor. Though the two RFPs have attracted interest, they would have made much more sense with on-street parking available for the proposed first-floor commercial. In turn this would have benefited CTP and the neighborhood south of 10th, adding some services and walkability to areas where the residents either really value it OR really need it.

[Martin]

was the ticket issued for 1-10 over or for 11 over? afaik, in oklahoma 10 or less over doesn't result in any points on a regular driver's license and therefore shouldn't affect your insurance. -M

edit: refer to page 6 of this document to see what i'm talking about: https://www.dps.state.ok.us/recm/VCB.pdf

[Urbanized]

Yeah, if it is <10 MPH over, like rezman says, it is called a "municipal violation" and is not reported to the database that insurance companies use. Cops love it because those tickets are contested less (they have to appear in court to testify against you on the docket date for a ticket), and because they can come off as a good guy who gave you a break, while still ringing you up for a hundy. If he stuck to the 14 over you're right about him being a bit of a jerk.

Edit: also like Martin says.

[gamecock]

I have not had any type of violation in many years so now I have to decide if I want to suck it up and go to traffic school to keep this off my driving record.

Problem is, that's an additional $200 (!) on top of the $161 for the ticket.

My car is older (and so am I) and thus my car insurance is very low.

Is it worth $200 to keep this off my record?[/QUOTE]

I recently got a ticket, too, and I took an online course that cost $29. It only took about 1.5 hours to complete the online course and earn the certificate. For me, it was worth it.

[Pete]

was the ticket issued for 1-10 over or for 11 over? afaik, in oklahoma 10 or less over doesn't result in any points on a regular driver's license and therefore shouldn't affect your insurance. -M

edit: refer to page 6 of this document to see what i'm talking about: https://www.dps.state.ok.us/recm/VCB.pdf

Hey hey! So glad I sought the collective wisdom of this site.

Even though he wrote "41/30" on the ticket, the violation was for "Speeding 1-10 over".

So, it looks like this won't even appear on my record. You think the guy would have bothered to tell me this, but he literally just handed me the ticket and walked away, without a word.

Still $161 bloody dollars but better than having to pay another $200 or have higher insurance premium.

Thanks Martin.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
Yep, $161 is the exact amount I got for a municipal violation on my motorcycle on Broadway last year. The cop made a big production of how it wouldn't go on my record even though I was going faster, and said he was doing me a favor because he used to ride motorcycles and could tell that I was only trying to get distance from the 3 idiots around me who were drifting in and out of lanes, changing lanes etc around the fire station jogs. Then he proceeded to lecture me about riding a motorcycle in the first place, since he'd seen so many gruesome accidents involving them. I smiled and nodded, but what I really wanted to do was sack up and ask him why he was writing ME when he knew and admitted to seeing that the inattentive car drivers were the real problem.

[Pete]

Police departments should have figured out a long time ago to split off the traffic cops from the rest of their ranks because for most people who vote and make the decisions about how the police are funded and supported, their only interaction with the force is when they get pulled over and ticketed and most the times the person doing it is a jackhole in the process.

I've always believed this is one of the main reasons firefighters are revered and paid substantially more.

I've literally never had any interaction with the police other than traffic violations and the huge majority of those have left me spitting mad. Pull me over for going 15+ over the speed limit or racing through a school zone and I deserve it. But 90% of the time it's some idiot in Warr Acres or Nichols Hills or on this absurdly marked road and they are just taxing you for doing what everyone else has been doing for years.

BTW, cops in California seemed to be much better about this. They just want traffic to move and many times I saw them actually stopping to help people, rather than trying to persecute them.

In Oklahoma, besides this incident, I was ticketed for going 43 in a 40 (I swear), 39 in a 30 and 47 in a 40. These were all in the 80's before I moved away and I really hoped the city had changed in this regard. Also, I got pulled over for running a stop sign where I actually saw the cop sitting there, took good care to stop and he STILL pulled me over saying that I never came to a full, resting stop.

So incredibly petty. I think I only had 3 tickets in 25 years in California and in all cases I was driving too fast and deserved what I got.

[OKCRT]

Police departments should have figured out a long time ago to split off the traffic cops from the rest of their ranks because for most people who vote and make the decisions about how the police are funded and supported, their only interaction with the force is when they get pulled over and ticketed and most the times the person doing it is a jackhole in the process.

I've always believed this is one of the main reasons firefighters are revered and paid substantially more.

I've literally never had any interaction with the police other than traffic violations and the huge majority of those have left me spitting mad. Pull me over for going 15+ over the speed limit or racing through a school zone and I deserve it. But 90% of the time it's some idiot in Warr Acres or Nichols Hills or on this absurdly marked road and they are just taxing you for doing what everyone else has been doing for years.

BTW, cops in California seemed to be much better about this. They just want traffic to move and many times I saw them actually stopping to help people, rather than trying to persecute them.

In Oklahoma, besides this incident, I was ticketed for going 43 in a 40 (I swear), 39 in a 30 and 47 in a 40. These were all in the 80's before I moved away and I really hoped the city had changed in this regard. Also, I got pulled over for running a stop sign where I actually saw the cop sitting there, took good care to stop and he STILL pulled me over saying that I never came to a full, resting stop.

So incredibly petty. I think I only had 3 tickets in 25 years in California and in all cases I was driving too fast and deserved what I got.

I will never forget when I was ticketed on Turner Turnpike for going 68 in a 65. On New Years many years ago when the speed limit was 65mph all along the pike. I couldn't believe it. So you never know when they will get you. Seems like in the past few years they are even worse and this is the reason many people don't like the cops here in OKC even though this was a OHP that got me. Last year I got a ticket going down Eastern just south of 2-40 on my way to Moore. I was going along no cars in sight 55mph and the speed limit was 45mph. I thought it was 55mph but he nailed me for about $170.00 but at least it didn't go on my insurance.

[turnpup]

Broadway, between 13th and 23rd, which is also a massive speed trap. The cops frequently hide in the bakery lot just on the other side of the hill.

Yikes! Guess I'm lucky because I travel that route 2 x per day at least now and haven't run into the speed trap. Thanks for the heads-up. Going to be much more careful now. It's really easy to get over 30 on that stretch.