Oklahoma historic tax credits in jeopardy

[bchris02]

This could possibly halt a lot of developments, including First National Center. I think this definitely deserves attention as it could seriously damage OKC's renaissance.

With Tax Credit In Jeopardy, So Are Oklahoma Historic Renovation - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |

[Spartan]

Are they retroactively cutting tax credits for projects awarded, now under construction, and not yet placed in service? That would be very extreme. They would force bankruptcy on many of these developers, get sued, and probably lose. The investment value of Oklahoma historic tax credits, and possibly any incentives altogether, would plummet.

The article repetitively referred to "stopping projects dead," which could be in error.

Even if they aren't retroactively taking back tax credits, this is still very bad for the state going forward.

[jerrywall]

It appears to put a two year moratorium on new approvals, but doesn't affect existing applications.

[bchris02]

It appears to put a two year moratorium on new approvals, but doesn't affect existing applications.

Do you know if First National Center has applied yet?

[Bunty]

Developers should try asking billionaires for money. In return, the completed project would be named after the billionaire. For instance, the T. Boone Pickens First National Center.

[Spartan]

Do you know if First National Center has applied yet?

Its tax credits haven't been awarded yet, so no.

[HangryHippo]

Developers should try asking billionaires for money. In return, the completed project would be named after the billionaire. For instance, the T. Boone Pickens First National Center.

Is this a serious suggestion?

[gopokes88]

Developers should try asking billionaires for money. In return, the completed project would be named after the billionaire. For instance, the T. Boone Pickens First National Center.

not a billionaire, not doing well financially and not interested in okc urban development.

[rte66man]

The bill is an omnibus moratorium:
Bill Tracking Reports

SB 977 has passed the Senate Finance committee with the title off. That means the bill cannot be finalized until the title is restored, which is usually near the end of Session. Section 9 (p36) has the language regarding the historic tax credit

[Spartan]

Are there longer-term repercussions with a title act? Harder to undo?

Honestly the writing is on the wall. Kasich tried doing this in Ohio and we won. However Oklahoma is probably a tough political climate for development subsidy, and the state is absolutely broke. It needs economic diversification and stimulus, but 23rd and Lincoln isn't that smart.

Oklahoma is going to continue to worsen bc the leadership here is going to throw the baby out with the bathwater before they do anything like raise taxes, not cut more taxes, etc. The one shoe left to fall at this point is environmental issues (Republican power, DEQ dereg, fracking, earthquakes) that could force future development subsidy (if ever restored) to focus on brownfields. That was another squeeze that made it hard for Michigan to commit to the historic tax credit, which they also got rid of. Kentucky is also probably next, but their credit is pathetic already.

If Michigan is any "model," the next frontier after eliminating the tax credit is an outright ban on historic districts. This will be proposed under the tea party mantle of property rights but will be done to protect interests that want to tear down lots of buildings. It's a very similar concept to Oklahoma's unique "ban" on vacant/abandoned property registries. Limited govt, y'know.

You guys that care about Oklahoma's future need to consider that some people actually benefit when things are bad. Either go into those industries lol, or fight them. It's the war, not the battle. Killing a good tax credit is just one of a million ways that state legislatures may try sticking it to cities. This is actually a very fractious relationship in probably every state, so I would be vigilant bc 23rd and Lincoln has a lot of "inspiration" out there to chose from.

The Koch bros and Heritage Foundation are using all of the red and purple states as laboratories, testing out horrible policies. It's like they all get delivered a certain set of instructions - do some of these but not all of these to give us a control variable.

Take the tax credit away, and we're going to be seeing a LOT more buildings coming down in OKC. Parking lots, anyone?

[Bunty]

Is this a serious suggestion?

Yes, but surely years ago people didn't think Boone Pickens would want to give enough money to have his name put on OSU's new football stadium, although OSU's school of geology was already named after him.

[bchris02]

Oklahoma governor warns against putting tax breaks on hold | News OK

I agree with Mary Fallin on this.

[Spartan]

Wow. They would jeopardize Boeing. I didn't even realize this went beyond the historic tax credit. Wow. This is insane.

These legislators are purposely trying to stick it to OKC. That's what this is. They can't actually be this misguided. The irony is that the historic tax credit, like most subsidies, support more projects in Rural OK than in OKC. Tulsa has to get its "fair share" too, which of course is really more than an actual fair share for a metro of 900K vs. 1.4 or 1.5 M.

If we don't diversify, this decade will be remembered as the era in which Oklahoma's economy took a few steps back. In the past we at least always gave lip service to diversification, even if most legitimate efforts failed (Lucent, Six Flags, Hertz, Firestone, Dayton Tire, GM, Unit Parts just in OKC). We need urban real estate investment. We need diversification, which we're seeing glimmers of in OKC with GE and Boeing. Tulsa is more diversified bc all of its energy companies are in Houston by now. Tulsa should be the state's model for how to survive an energy downturn and use it as an impetus for diversification and further economic development.

I think Tulsa has gotten a lot more historic tax credit investment, as well. Of course, it is a more historic city, and doesn't have the growth pressures that have come to define OKC.

[gopokes88]

The sun is coming up tomorrow Spartan, I promise.

[Zorba]

I think every tax credit is on the table and should be. Of course there should be debate and try to strike a reasonable balance. I personally benefit greatly from the aerospace tax credit, but if it has to go for a couple of years to keep our schools from becoming the absolute worst in the US, so be it.

BTW: Tulsa is also benefited by the aerospace tax credit with AA, Spirit, Nordam and several other part 145 stations, plus some new PMA vendors, etc. This is hardly a screw OKC to help Tulsa thing.

[Bunty]

Oklahoma governor warns against putting tax breaks on hold | News OK

I agree with Mary Fallin on this.

I'll be surprised if in her legacy she will be considered a great governor. A year ago she said she supported income tax cuts, so Oklahomans could have more money in their pockets to spend. Now she has changed her mind and wants to reach into the pockets of Oklahomans.

If Oklahomans really love the state, they somehow, someway need to find more intelligent political leaders to run the state. Keeping career politicians in office, like Fallin, carries no guarantee that is one good way of doing it

[Bunty]

I think every tax credit is on the table and should be. Of course there should be debate and try to strike a reasonable balance. I personally benefit greatly from the aerospace tax credit, but if it has to go for a couple of years to keep our schools from becoming the absolute worst in the US, so be it.

Taking signatures for the petition to vote on raising the state sales tax by a penny to increase funding for education is supposed to start on Feb. 16th. Passing that should help a lot from state schools becoming worst. I hate how it comes to doing it that way, but I know of no other way concerned citizens can act to counter or go around the bad governing that has been going on at the State Capitol.

[Spartan]

I think every tax credit is on the table and should be. Of course there should be debate and try to strike a reasonable balance. I personally benefit greatly from the aerospace tax credit, but if it has to go for a couple of years to keep our schools from becoming the absolute worst in the US, so be it.

BTW: Tulsa is also benefited by the aerospace tax credit with AA, Spirit, Nordam and several other part 145 stations, plus some new PMA vendors, etc. This is hardly a screw OKC to help Tulsa thing.

You gotta be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. The historic tax credit program has already operated at a bare minimum, so cutting it will hurt more. Like I said, without incentives that have actual value, we will lose a lot more historic bldgs.

I have a hard time believing that it's the historic tax credit, or any economic development initiatives, that have put us in the position we currently find ourselves.

[jerrywall]

You gotta be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. The historic tax credit program has already operated at a bare minimum, so cutting it will hurt more. Like I said, without incentives that have actual value, we will lose a lot more historic bldgs.

I have a hard time believing that it's the historic tax credit, or any economic development initiatives, that have put us in the position we currently find ourselves.

Maybe not, but I think of it as a zero budget financing. To look at our shortfalls, we should start from a place of zero tax incentives, and then one by one justify and keep the ones that make sense. Just discussing a given tax incentive and looking at if it makes sense shouldn't be that controversial (although this is Oklahoma and we love our sacred cows).

[Spartan]

Well we are in this position bc instead of diversification, we ended a lot of those initiatives bc it was more lucrative to increase reliance on O&G. The only reason they pushed through income tax cuts, as if state income tax somehow matters to someone, is bc we were flush with cash from oil royalties, production taxes, sales taxes, and other fees.

I am now reading that it's going to become a $1.8B shortfall, so any energy spent trying to save any state functions is probably just wasted effort. I recognize its bad.

[gopokes88]

I'll be surprised if in her legacy she will be considered a great governor. A year ago she said she supported income tax cuts, so Oklahomans could have more money in their pockets to spend. Now she has changed her mind and wants to reach into the pockets of Oklahomans.

If Oklahomans really love the state, they somehow, someway need to find more intelligent political leaders to run the state. Keeping career politicians in office, like Fallin, carries no guarantee that is one good way of doing it

Have you lived anywhere else in your life? No state has good politicians. It has nothing to do with a lack of love for the state and everything to do with being a political leader is a no win job.

[Bunty]

Have you lived anywhere else in your life? No state has good politicians. It has nothing to do with a lack of love for the state and everything to do with being a political leader is a no win job.

No, I haven't, but know a number of Republican led states are run a lot better than Oklahoma. Your only comeback would be they don't have oil based economies. Once again, if a citizen loves Oklahoma, he or she won't continuing to keep incumbent legislators in place who refuse to support reform measures that can make Oklahoma a better and more free state. Admittedly, it may be a matter of opinion what measures will be acceptable in the highly conservative political culture of Oklahoma.

[FighttheGoodFight]

People are unhappy. I see a change in leadership coming in a big way. If there is an "anti-establishment" candidate they have a good shot.

[jerrywall]

Just threaten to shutdown OU football like they're talking about with LSU and see how quick something gets done.

[gopokes88]

No, I haven't, but know a number of Republican led states are run a lot better than Oklahoma. Your only comeback would be they don't have oil based economies. Once again, if a citizen loves Oklahoma, he or she won't continuing to keep incumbent legislators in place who refuse to support reform measures that can make Oklahoma a better and more free state. Admittedly, it may be a matter of opinion what measures will be acceptable in the highly conservative political culture of Oklahoma.

It's pretty clear the vast majority of voters are more concerned with social issues than economic development. That once again, is a matter of opinion, what should we as a state care about? Personally, I think it's the churches job to dictate morality not the states and the two should be separate. However, I'm clearly in the miniority on that.

The difference between Okla Repubs and Texas Repubs is Texas repubs for the most part are more focused on growing Texas' economy. They certainly do goofy wacky social issue things like any other state (dem states do it too, you just don't live in a dem state so it's not in your face) but they have had a lot of success at creating a good business environment.

It'll change over time as the population in Oklahoma ages and demographics shift.

I can assure you though, having lived in 2 blue states, democrats do just as much terrible stuff. No one has a majority on that.