Oklahoma liquor laws

[bchris02]

Something else I wish would be addressed at some point is the law requiring that ABC-3 licensed establishments clear out all patrons by 2AM. I am fine with a 2AM last call, but dumping drunks on the street seems counterproductive. In North Carolina, last call is 2AM but people tend to linger until 2:30 or so and bars can stay open as late as they want, they just can't serve alcohol past 2AM.

[Plutonic Panda]

Crowd in Oklahoma City seeks to have state's beer laws changed | News OK

[bille]

Bille, couldn't make it to the summit but would love to hear about the conversation. Saw Patrick Lively on the news so hopefully this received some attention.

You can watch the whole thing here: Watch

I have a good feeling that SB424 (allowing brewers point of production sales >4%) will pass, I just hope it allows for on-premise consumption.

As for SB383, I'm worried that too much money is on the line and the large grocers/convenience want in. RLAO is strongly against complete, progressive reform allowing everything the grocers want obviously and I'm not sure there's enough compromise available yet. Let's hope,

[jerrywall]

Something else I wish would be addressed at some point is the law requiring that ABC-3 licensed establishments clear out all patrons by 2AM. I am fine with a 2AM last call, but dumping drunks on the street seems counterproductive. In North Carolina, last call is 2AM but people tend to linger until 2:30 or so and bars can stay open as late as they want, they just can't serve alcohol past 2AM.

Meh, I guess. I'm just not sure how much of a difference it really makes. Most bars do last call 15-25 minutes before 2am already. So this would just shift people drinking right up until 2 am.

I figure the ones most opposed to this would be the low paid hourly bartenders and staff...

[Bunty]

Something else I wish would be addressed at some point is the law requiring that ABC-3 licensed establishments clear out all patrons by 2AM. I am fine with a 2AM last call, but dumping drunks on the street seems counterproductive. In North Carolina, last call is 2AM but people tend to linger until 2:30 or so and bars can stay open as late as they want, they just can't serve alcohol past 2AM.

Bars should have the right to close when they want to on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

[Bunty]

Retail Liquor Lobby Response to OK Legislative Review Proves Outdated Beer/Wine Laws Must Go
https://oklahomalegislativereview.wo...9/source-post/

[tsou89]

Well said Mr Lewis! Their argument is based on nothing more than greed.

If this ever comes to a vote it will be funny watching the liquor lobby trying to convince the evangelical conservatives to side with them.

[bchris02]

Bars should have the right to close when they want to on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

I agree...but that will never go over in Oklahoma. There are only a few states that don't have last call and they are all heavy tourist states.

I think a great compromise is 2AM last call for alcohol and beyond that, the establishment can stay open as late as they want. Many wouldn't stay open later but some would.

[bchris02]

If this ever comes to a vote it will be funny watching the liquor lobby trying to convince the evangelical conservatives to side with them.

That will be a real danger in terms of this not getting passed. The evangelical vote in Oklahoma is probably much greater than 50%. The liquor lobby will fund an opposition effort based on protecting the moral fabric of Oklahoma and the fundies will fall into line with no questions asked. Those who support liquor reform will have to counter it with facts and come at it at the angle of small government and personal responsibility. They will need to use tea party buzzwords to try to get people on board with reform.

Using terms like "modernize" or "liberalize" is a sure way for this to fail at the ballot box.

[jerrywall]

You've got the RLAO who is supporting modernizing laws, but wants it done incrementally, and with steps in place to improve enforcement and safety, and then you have folks like Mr. Lewis, who wants to demonize anyone who doesn't want 100% instant libertarian level liquor laws overnight.

And we wonder why stuff can't get done.

The core of Kerr's response which seems to have upset Mr. Lewis so much...

The RLAO supports sensible change to Oklahoma’s alcohol laws. We would offset the selling of “strong” beer in convenience and grocery stores by directing funding to the government agencies in charge of educating, preventing and treating our citizens regarding the misuse of alcohol. We would limit the ABV of products sold in convenience stores to 6%. This would allow 95% of all the beer they sell in Texas to have representation at every corner store in Oklahoma without introducing more dangerous, higher-point products like Four Loko and Steel Reserve. We support the refrigeration of the products sold in liquor stores. We support allowing customers to bring their children into our stores. And we support allowing liquor stores to be open on Independence Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and whichever day Mr. Lewis’ anniversary actually falls on.

Our proposal is not just imminently more fair to the small business people we represent, it takes into account the valid concerns of those Oklahomans who realize that alcohol is a drug which deserves to be controlled and regulated so that convenience is properly balanced against social harms.

Wow, folks are right. What a monster. It really is all about greed.

[jerrywall]

Bars should have the right to close when they want to on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

That's unrealistic. How many states/regions support that. Why not ask for open container laws on the streets too?

[GaryOKC6]

That will be a real danger in terms of this not getting passed. The evangelical vote in Oklahoma is probably much greater than 50%. The liquor lobby will fund an opposition effort based on protecting the moral fabric of Oklahoma and the fundies will fall into line with no questions asked. Those who support liquor reform will have to counter it with facts and come at it at the angle of small government and personal responsibility. They will need to use tea party buzzwords to try to get people on board with reform.

Using terms like "modernize" or "liberalize" is a sure way for this to fail at the ballot box.

We have done recent polling that shows more than 78 percent of Oklahoma voters are in favor of changing our liquor laws (modernization). The legislation will probably have to be crafted to give some concessions to the liquor retailers like allowing them to sell things other than liquor. The biggest challenge will be educating the voters since it will not be a simple yes or no question on the ballot. We are talking about 16 constitutional changes which makes it very complicated.

[bchris02]

I personally like the RLAO's proposal and think its fair and sensible. While not quite as libertarian as I would like, I think it would be much easier to accomplish than a complete rework of the system.

The only way it really differs from the article is that there is a 6% ABV limit for grocery/convenience stores and not all grocery stores can sell wine.

In terms of wine, I think something that needs to be addressed when it comes to chain grocers is how many wine licenses can be purchased by a specific chain. For instance, I would hope there would be something in place that would keep Wal-Mart from snatching up all the wine licenses, leaving Homeland and Sprouts without the ability to sell it.

[Plutonic Panda]

That's unrealistic. How many states/regions support that. Why not ask for open container laws on the streets too?

Personal choice does seem to be realistic. I also think there should be designated areas for open container on the street.

[jerrywall]

Personal choice does seem to be realistic. I also think there should be designated areas for open container on the street.

Laws on public nudity are also a matter of personal choice... but you're likely to get those laws changed any time soon either.

Designated areas for open containers, such as Bricktown, might be doable. But if someone was to say open containers should be legal everywhere, again I'd say "unrealistic".

As for closing when they want.. well, I believe 4 states allow that. I don't see Oklahoma becoming #5.

[Plutonic Panda]

Laws on public nudity are also a matter of personal choice... but you're likely to get those laws changed any time soon either.

Designated areas for open containers, such as Bricktown, might be doable. But if someone was to say open containers should be legal everywhere, again I'd say "unrealistic".

As for closing when they want.. well, I believe 4 states allow that. I don't see Oklahoma becoming #5.

True.

[Bunty]

That's unrealistic. How many states/regions support that. Why not ask for open container laws on the streets too?

Because not enough college kids in Stillwater would bother going to the polls to vote in favor of it, because majority of them aren't old enough to drink. It's why Eskimo Joe's birthday parties haven't been held in the street since the mid 1990s. College students failed to go to the polls to keep it that way. Most of them are away during the summer, anyway, when Eskimo Joe's has it's birthday party.

[Bunty]

That will be a real danger in terms of this not getting passed. The evangelical vote in Oklahoma is probably much greater than 50%. The liquor lobby will fund an opposition effort based on protecting the moral fabric of Oklahoma and the fundies will fall into line with no questions asked. Those who support liquor reform will have to counter it with facts and come at it at the angle of small government and personal responsibility. They will need to use tea party buzzwords to try to get people on board with reform.

Using terms like "modernize" or "liberalize" is a sure way for this to fail at the ballot box.

I think Oklahoma City and Tulsa metro areas would make alcohol reform questions pass. The votes from there were key in making liquor by the drink pass in 1984. And the Yes vote in some of the larger small areas, such as Lawton, Enid and Stillwater, and others, would temper many of the NO votes from the numerous little towns.

Surely, a lot of people would see the ridiculous hypocrisy and greed in the liquor stores trying for the protect the moral fiber votes.

[tsou89]

You've got the RLAO who is supporting modernizing laws, but wants it done incrementally, and with steps in place to improve enforcement and safety, and then you have folks like Mr. Lewis, who wants to demonize anyone who doesn't want 100% instant libertarian level liquor laws overnight.

And we wonder why stuff can't get done.

The core of Kerr's response which seems to have upset Mr. Lewis so much...



Wow, folks are right. What a monster. It really is all about greed.

A hint of sarcasm I detect!

Say and believe what you'd like. I personally know someone working closely on this and he says it's 100% greed on the part of the distributors. They have a cozy deal and they like thing just as they are. And that I believe, regardless of the statement made by the RLAO.

[jerrywall]

A hint of sarcasm I detect!

Say and believe what you'd like. I personally know someone working closely on this and he says it's 100% greed on the part of the distributors. They have a cozy deal and they like thing just as they are. And that I believe, regardless of the statement made by the RLAO.

The trouble is that defies logic. Any changes which allow grocery and gas stations to carry higher strength beer or wine (or even liquor) would likely still be distributed by the distributors. You know what the #1 selling beer is in Oklahoma? Or #2? Or #3? I'll give you a hint. They aren't sold at liquor stores. The distributors get nothing out of the majority of beer sold in Oklahoma. They'd love a piece of that pie.

You know who wouldn't like for it to happen? Domestic beer manufacturers, who currently sell directly to the retailers, can make shelf space and display agreements, and can make special volume deals and pricing arrangements. Unless all current liquor laws get redone, then that all goes out the window.

So you'd have to find me the financial interest in the distributors opposing these proposals...

[bille]

You know who wouldn't like for it to happen? Domestic beer manufacturers, who currently sell directly to the retailers, can make shelf space and display agreements, and can make special volume deals and pricing arrangements.

Unless they already own one of those distributors!

[Midtowner]

One major reform could be folding ABLE into the OSBI. No need for two separate agencies and administrations.

[bchris02]

Oklahoma group seeks state vote on wine and strong beer in grocery, convenience stores | News OK

Not too confident in this being that it will require a petition. This would have a much easier time getting on the ballot if approved through the legislature. Hope it happens though.

[jerrywall]

At least Oklahomans for Modern Laws isn't Wal-Mart like Tap Oklahoma or Cold Beer Now Oklahoma which is funded by Budweiser. People should wonder when out of state money gets involved.

[bchris02]

Changing these laws just isn't going to be easy being that the liquor industry in the state is built around them. Colorado and Minnesota, much more liberal states than Oklahoma, still have similar laws on the books. Fortunately in those states, regulations on liquor stores aren't near as strict so they have less impact on the consumer.

I wish Oklahoma would simply allow liquor stores to sell cold beer and allow them to have expanded hours and call it a day. Of course, big beer doesn't want that, but they could respond by bringing their full-strength product into liquor stores.

Do you think there will be any movement on Stephanie Bice's proposal? I think it has a much better shot than this petition to actually get somewhere.