Cumberland Court

[Filthy]

I think you're reading too much into it. It's more a curiosity/observation I think.

It was simple question, as I was also curious. As a casual observer/poster, I was just something that I have noticed being discussed, or atleast touched upon in numerous threads posted over the past few years. And the times that I remember it being touched upon it seemed to always be portrayed in a somewhat negative light. So, my post was also nothing more than a "curiosity/observation" type scenario as well.

[jerrywall]

Not a fan of gated communities...sends the message that only one type of person is welcome to your community.

I don't have a problem with gated houses though. If you want personal security, a gated house/property makes much more sense than a gated community. A gated community is just thumping your chest.

The more I live where I am....the more I can't wait to hit the lottery and buy about 250 acres of land in the middle of nowhere and never have to interact with another human being ever again in my life.

I want a hybrid. I want to buy a large acreage, and get several friends and relatives to build houses, and we'll put the whole thing behind one large gate with high walls around....Call it the Wall Compound.

[Filthy]

Not a fan of gated communities...sends the message that only one type of person is welcome to your community.

A gated community is just thumping your chest.

There it is.

[Richard at Remax]

We're ripping on gated communities now? Must be a slow day.

[Urbanized]

I think you're reading too much into it. It's more a curiosity/observation I think. A gated community inside of a gated community does seem curious. And it's sort of funny to think of a gated community inside of NH (it just seems redundant). I'm not sure that folks really have a problem with gated communities (although someone can correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure). However, too many in an urban core could cause walkability and flow problems, I guess.

Exactly. Since I'm the one making that comment, I can say with certainty that no ill will was intended. You know this about me Rover. I clearly also said in another post that I didn't really have a problem with it in this location as it is a suburban one, and always will be. I've also been pretty clear in my years on the site that I think suburban living can be a valid choice, depending on circumstances. It's one I have made myself in the past. I've even lived in a gated community.

My point was that it's a little funny because a gate in this location is a bit redundant. This is a neighborhood where people are known to leave their houses and cars unlocked. I was once pulled over there (while house hunting) in a brand new F-150 super crew Lariat 4x4, presumably because I was driving a pickup truck, aimlessly. As in, "can I help you folks find anything?"

Second, you MUST be kidding me if you say you can't see the humor in a gated community INSIDE the gates at Oak Tree. Lighten up on that one; it's funny.

[Urbanized]

Also, BTW, pointing out the contradiction between what he pointedly described according to the article, and what appears in rendering. I would point that out if the contradiction worked the other way too.

[catch22]

We're ripping on gated communities now? Must be a slow day.

I don't think anyone is ripping anybody. It's obviously a life style choice and there's no harm with that.

I personally feel like it is a false sense of security aimed at showing off, instead of a true secure home.

Except as in the case of what Urbanized laid out, where several friends or even a few family members have a small gated community.

We're all given limited time on the planet and we should live in whatever way brings you happiness; and that's different for everyone.

[adaniel]

Don't really care what people do with their money. Just know that buying a home in a gated neighborhood is pretty much throwing your wallet to your HOA president and saying "Have fun!" Gated entrances are a pain to maintain and require constant upkeep. I had one in my condo when I was still in OKC and tbh it was probably broken more than it actually worked. They also really don't prevent most crime...multiple articles about this.

Much more effective security measures exist, but most will be attached directly to the house. A gated entrance is a real estate tactic, not really any sort of safety deterrent. Hell, a big dog, mace, or a pistol will do you far better than a gate at a fraction of the cost.

FWIW I went on a mission trip to the Domincan Republic back in HS and met up with a church member who was living in a fairly upscale ex-pat neighborhood in the middle of Santo Domingo. THAT was a gated neighborhood. Barbed wire, 7 foot concrete walls, 24-7 manned entranced guarded by mean dudes with semiautomatic weapons. These people would laugh at what we have in the states.

[Rover]

A gated community is just thumping your chest.

Really? smh

And it really is true, if you live in an apartment you must have tatoos and frequent sex shops. LOL

[Plutonic Panda]

It is just easy to make fun of other people's choices...too poor..too rich....too young..too old...too private....to open...too religious...too much a heathen... and on and on and on. I find it pretty simple, if you don't want a style of life, don't live it. I doubt the critics of this development who criticize it as a lifestyle choice on this site would ever consider to move to NH or to this street. So snarky comments about people who do are unnecessary. While everyone had a good yuk about the stupid HH residents who thought that all apartment developments in midtown would breed tattoo parlors and sex shops, others must get a good yuk about the stereotyping done about their NH lifestyle. Trouble is, the "enlightened" criticizing each other are equally ridiculous.

+1

[Filthy]

I think suburban living can be a valid choice, depending on circumstances

That's an interesting caveat for sure.

Just know that buying a home in a gated neighborhood is pretty much throwing your wallet to your HOA president and saying "Have fun!"

I would think that anyone being part of a HOA, would want to contribute funds to upkeep of the surroundings of their neighborhood.

They also really don't prevent most crime...multiple articles about this.

If you would like to link to one of those articles, or point me in that direction I would like to see what statistics were used and what control/variables were stated. Only reason, I even bring this up, (And honestly, the main reason I even posted in this thread) is that I just recently attended a neighborhood watch patrol class, with the OKC police dept. This very topic came up, and for the most part, someone stated word for word what you just did. The officer conducting the class disagreed. Stating, that gated communities of single family homes in a given area, were much less likely to be vandalized, have property stolen, or burgled. He did however say, that most of their data showed for crime/burglaries within gated communities was significantly higher in multi family complexes, such as condos and apartments within the metro that were gated. Stating, that when you have a large number of tenants in one location, not only do you have exponentially more people coming and going, but you also have a large amount of turnover in number of renters with access to the gates. Compound that with nobody knowing who is who, just about anyone can pull in that gate at any time, without causing any suspicion. Somewhere in there, was also a sneer that in a gated multi family/apartment complex, you were also much more likely to have your car/condo/apartment burgled, and or robbed by someone living within your gated complex. So, I would assume that whatever articles you can site are lumping these statistics together, even though they should be viewed differently when trying to paint a true picture, of tracking crime. I am in no way disputing your claims..moreso just sharing what was discussed by the Sgt. that was conducting the class. (But it clearly could have just been propaganda being spread by the OKC PD)

Much more effective security measures exist, but most will be attached directly to the house. A gated entrance is a real estate tactic, not really any sort of safety deterrent. Hell, a big dog, mace, or a pistol will do you far better than a gate at a fraction of the cost.

I'm not sure anyone who lives in a gated community feel as if the gates are a safety deterrent. I would agree that most would focus more on those "directly attached to the house" kind of items when it comes to security. What it does do, however is create some privacy/seclusion in keeping people OUT that don't belong. I 100% agree, that if a true criminal wanted to put forth the effort to commit a crime, in said neighborhood...that he could in fact find a way to make it happen...Gates or no gates. He did however finish up the conversation with this, in stating that you are correct...a closed gate at a neighborhood entrance cannot prevent all crime, however it is in fact a deterrent, because the MAJORITY of criminals/burglars/meth-crack heads are lazy by nature. The path of least resistance, will be their 1st, 2nd and 3rd option.


So, I will give this tidbit. I do live within a gated community. (Consisting of 41 houses) The neighborhood was established in 2011, and has been gated since inception. We are bordered by another neighborhood to our North and another Neighborhood entrance is another 1/4 mile to the West. Between the other two neighborhoods, consisting for the most part the same type of homes, with approx. the same demographics, square footage, age of home etc.. (but NOT Gated) There have been several home invasions in that 5 year span, as well as countless petty crooks/teenage kids that rummage thru unlocked cars, steal stereos etc..... Yet, in that same 5 year span, there had been zero home invasions in our neighborhood. Well.....until this last summer that is. We had a neighbor that had their back door kicked in. Alarm went off, and the responsible individuals were in and out of the house in less than 90 seconds. Typically, this is where the story would end, except for the fact that we live in a gated community. And yes...you are correct in the fact that those gates did not keep a motivated criminal out of the neighborhood, but unbeknownst to that motivated criminal, every single car that enters and exits that gate has its license plate photographed/recorded by an HD license plate reader. Suspect was subsequently arrested within about 6 hours of committing said crime.

So, although you might consider it a real estate tactic, or throwing away your wallet to your HOA. I consider it a piece of mind.

[Spartan]

You need peace of mind in order to live in Nichols Hills (I think that's what you're trying to say)? Do you think it's filthy or something?

We're ripping on gated communities now? Must be a slow day.

No, but somebody proposed one at 63rd and Western, right behind Nichols Hills Plaza. You don't think that's a big deal?

[mugofbeer]

Not a fan of gated communities...sends the message that only one type of person is welcome to your community.
I
I don't have a problem with gated houses though. If you want personal security, a gated house/property makes much more sense than a gated community. A gated community is just thumping your chest.

The more I live where I am....the more I can't wait to hit the lottery and buy about 250 acres of land in the middle of nowhere and never have to interact with another human being ever again in my life.

I live in a nice 1970s suburban community in the S Denver metro. It has a homeowner association but no gates. It has several entrances from busy streets or other neighborhoods. It is surrounded by other nice neighborhoods of both higher and more moderate income. After living there 20 years and watching it kept up nicely by the owners, the neighborhood gets its share of buglaries and especially, car break-ins. My wife caught a girl nosing around my car last summer trying to open the door about 2am in my driveway. Someone drove thru and shot at a resident out walking her dogs. People walk into the neighborhood about the time the high schools let out wearing hoodies and backpacks to look like teenagers. They ring doorbells then walk around to the back yard and break-in the house when no one answers. Car break-ins are very common in the summer . Teens vandalized port-o-potties put out for some street projects a while back.

Its not smug keep-out-the-riff reasons for gates, but a desire to keep people out who dont belong there. We aren't considering gates but cameras. Pretty sad it seems to me.

[Spartan]

Why are we debating the concept of gated communities? That's one thing, and to each their own. It's very different when you propose to gobble up an existing street, with connectivity, and remove that connectivity. Debate the street closure at Western Avenue, not gated communities in general.

I would have no problem if this were proposed in Edmond and they wanted an even bigger gate. This involves actually undoing a street grid, which is a totally different thing. We are just now starting to get some walkable density around 63rd and Western, which could mature into a great asset for OKC, if we don't screw it up.

[Spartan]

Mentioned in the article too that they got a variance to close off Western.

They already received this variance?

[Eddie1]

Don't really care what people do with their money. Just know that buying a home in a gated neighborhood is pretty much throwing your wallet to your HOA president and saying "Have fun!" Gated entrances are a pain to maintain and require constant upkeep. I had one in my condo when I was still in OKC and tbh it was probably broken more than it actually worked. They also really don't prevent most crime...multiple articles about this.

Much more effective security measures exist, but most will be attached directly to the house. A gated entrance is a real estate tactic, not really any sort of safety deterrent. Hell, a big dog, mace, or a pistol will do you far better than a gate at a fraction of the cost.

FWIW I went on a mission trip to the Domincan Republic back in HS and met up with a church member who was living in a fairly upscale ex-pat neighborhood in the middle of Santo Domingo. THAT was a gated neighborhood. Barbed wire, 7 foot concrete walls, 24-7 manned entranced guarded by mean dudes with semiautomatic weapons. These people would laugh at what we have in the states.

Yeah, people with means live like this is South Africa too, huge walls, barbed wire, it's crazy

[zookeeper]

...I can't wait to hit the lottery and buy about 250 acres of land in the middle of nowhere and never have to interact with another human being ever again in my life.

Hear, Hear!

[mugofbeer]

Why are we debating the concept of gated communities? That's one thing, and to each their own. It's very different when you propose to gobble up an existing street, with connectivity, and remove that connectivity. Debate the street closure at Western Avenue, not gated communities in general.

I would have no problem if this were proposed in Edmond and they wanted an even bigger gate. This involves actually undoing a street grid, which is a totally different thing. We are just now starting to get some walkable density around 63rd and Western, which could mature into a great asset for OKC, if we don't screw it up.

Its not an urban neighborhood. Its an older suburban neighborhood.

[Spartan]

Its not an urban neighborhood. Its an older suburban neighborhood.

And? It's 1 block from a retail town center, 2 blocks from a major headquarters. It's an emerging area, no?

[Urbanized]

That's an interesting caveat for sure...

Really? How so? I'll be interested to see what kind of words you try to put into my mouth here.

[sooner88]

They already received this variance?

I assume they have.

"The project, called Cumberland Court, required some cooperation between the city and Say’s team. The city granted a variance on how far the homes had to be set back from the streets and built walls on the development’s north, south and east sides, closing off Western Avenue."

[Filthy]

Really? How so? I'll be interested to see what kind of words you try to put into my mouth here.

I'm not sure if this was meant for me, as I can't ever remember doing such. Like....ever. So, I'm actually pretty taken aback by the overall tone of the statement itself. I know sometimes its tough to keep on track, and only discuss the topic at hand, but there is no need to fabricate an issue that does not exist. I will do my best to keep that in mind if ever quoting you again, to make sure that even if I quote your post word for word, that I should not do so in such a manor that could be interpreted in a negative light.

[hoya]

So, I will give this tidbit. I do live within a gated community. (Consisting of 41 houses) The neighborhood was established in 2011, and has been gated since inception. We are bordered by another neighborhood to our North and another Neighborhood entrance is another 1/4 mile to the West. Between the other two neighborhoods, consisting for the most part the same type of homes, with approx. the same demographics, square footage, age of home etc.. (but NOT Gated) There have been several home invasions in that 5 year span, as well as countless petty crooks/teenage kids that rummage thru unlocked cars, steal stereos etc..... Yet, in that same 5 year span, there had been zero home invasions in our neighborhood. Well.....until this last summer that is. We had a neighbor that had their back door kicked in. Alarm went off, and the responsible individuals were in and out of the house in less than 90 seconds. Typically, this is where the story would end, except for the fact that we live in a gated community. And yes...you are correct in the fact that those gates did not keep a motivated criminal out of the neighborhood, but unbeknownst to that motivated criminal, every single car that enters and exits that gate has its license plate photographed/recorded by an HD license plate reader. Suspect was subsequently arrested within about 6 hours of committing said crime.

So, although you might consider it a real estate tactic, or throwing away your wallet to your HOA. I consider it a piece of mind.

I live in Del City, in an older neighborhood. I have never been a victim of any kind of crime there. No home invasions, no auto burglaries, nothing. Our neighborhood has had zero problems. Other neighborhoods in Del City, not so much. You don't need gates to live in a safe place.

And I consider this a piece of mind:

[Spartan]

I assume they have.

"The project, called Cumberland Court, required some cooperation between the city and Say’s team. The city granted a variance on how far the homes had to be set back from the streets and built walls on the development’s north, south and east sides, closing off Western Avenue."

Sounds like a done deal.

Wow that is so myopic. Since OKC maintains Western Avenue, I would if they have any say.

They're going to put a freaking cul de sac in front of the Hideaway Pizza there. Ugh

[jerrywall]

Sounds like a done deal.

Wow that is so myopic. Since OKC maintains Western Avenue, I would if they have any say.

They're going to put a freaking cul de sac in front of the Hideaway Pizza there. Ugh

I assume from the description there will be a wall along western avenue. Technically a cul de sac on the west side of the wall, but it's not like cumberland is a major artery of the grid system. It's a one block street between Avondale and Western. Not sure how many folks will be walking from NH to Western anyways.