White Water Bay

[bchris02]

I'm glad OKC has these park there is a number of cities across this country who wish they had these attractions in their backyard. I am not going to complain and look forward to many more years visiting Frontier City and White Water Bay.

I understand what you are saying but in many other cities, these smaller parks have had to either up their game or close down. "Better than crappy makes us happy" isn't good enough. Frontier City needs a few destination thrill rides. The park is already aesthetically attractive and has great bones. The new rides don't have to be anything too extravagant but it does need to be upgraded so a park visit is worth the cost of a ticket and/or season pass. With a couple of new coasters, it could be at least as good as Worlds of Fun in Kansas City.

[Plutonic Panda]

Hurricane Harbor sounds like a good middle of the road option. Plus, I really need to take a trip to Dallas.

Back when I was in college (late 80's to early 90's), I got a really cool summer job working for a marketing firm that had the PepsiCo account. They paid us $10 per hour (which was a fortune back then, plus we always worked at least 10 hours of overtime each week) to go to a bunch of places and set up a Pepsi/Coke taste test. It was a modern remake of the Pepsi Challenge from the 70s. Many, if not most, of our venues were the various Whitewater parks across the DFW metro. I'm trying to think if Hurricane Harbor used to be a Whitewater or not. If so, it got completely gutted and rebuilt. But I can't remember for sure. That was a long, hot summer, but we made so much $$$. When you're in college, that's a real blessing.

Nice! Bet that was a really fun summer.

[OKCretro]

a thread about a public toilet.

haven't been since middle school and don't plan on going back

[turnpup]

Nice! Bet that was a really fun summer.

Fun, but hard work. We stood outside in the hot Texas sun for 10 hours a day. It was hard to be stationed at a Whitewater and not be able to get wet. I was always thrilled when they'd give us our weekly assignment and one of the days was a mall. Air conditioning!

Back then, all the Whitewaters were identical. Even the one in Oklahoma was just like the ones in Texas. They were pretty small, and the major attraction was the wave pool. I don't remember when things changed, but it wasn't too long after that. Change in ownership, perhaps?

[jn1780]

When was the last time a new theme park was built in the U.S? Theme parks are expensive and the return on investment is terrible. You need a lot of tourist from surrounding states to support a large theme park and there are not many investors who are willing to fork that much cash to even try to build something competitive when Six Flags has three parks down south.

Frontier City's small incremental approach at improving the park may be boring, but its working in keeping them in the black. They probably have long term plans for a new coaster, but the best they can do for now is buying these new smaller rides.

[shavethewhales]

^Just FYI, Hard Rock Theme Park was built out in Myrtle Beach in 2008, but closed down after two seasons mostly due to lousy planning. A new park near Houston called Grand Texas is slowly getting off the ground and land is being cleared currently for it, but as typical it is being delayed. There are small properties that pick up here and there, but nothing like we're talking about here. The water park industry is exploding though, thanks to smaller, local (sometimes indoor) properties.

It is indeed much more difficult to get an appropriate ROI in this industry than almost everyone thinks. Every says, "oh, Frontier City just needs a world class thrill ride to round it off", not realizing that would be a $10-$20 million investment that could sink the park if it doesn't turn out well. Incremental build up is the model of choice for a reason. Frontier City is about to add a decent thrill ride for 2015 though (to be announced very soon), and I expect it will give them a bump and the confidence in the market they need to do something even greater for either 2016 or 2017. I don't see them going all out and building anything truly world class, but there is are things like this: Untamed - Canobie Lake Park (Salem, New Hampshire, USA) that could be really fun for not a ridiculous amount of money.

White Water is in the same boat, but with smaller quantities of money. Water park projects are cheaper, but the revenue is also smaller and more variable. They did get some great new slides LAST YEAR that no one seems to recognize though. Funny how people who haven't been to the park in ages always assume nothing ever changes. With FC getting a new ride this year, I'd look for another new project at White Water next year, but it depends on how the sale goes.

[Kemotblue]

Frontier City just posted this on their Facebook page this afternoon. According to reply in their comments it is being placed in between the Mindbender and Praire Schooner. That is a awesome location for this type of ride. Glad they are adding something this year to their park. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQqbUzzfKhI

[BBatesokc]

Do they do their marketing in house? I hope they didn't pay a 3rd party for that promo video --- considering it was done with Apple's free iMovie and one of their most recognizable free templates/themes....

[Zorba]

^Just FYI, Hard Rock Theme Park was built out in Myrtle Beach in 2008, but closed down after two seasons mostly due to lousy planning. A new park near Houston called Grand Texas is slowly getting off the ground and land is being cleared currently for it, but as typical it is being delayed. There are small properties that pick up here and there, but nothing like we're talking about here. The water park industry is exploding though, thanks to smaller, local (sometimes indoor) properties.

It is indeed much more difficult to get an appropriate ROI in this industry than almost everyone thinks. Every says, "oh, Frontier City just needs a world class thrill ride to round it off", not realizing that would be a $10-$20 million investment that could sink the park if it doesn't turn out well. Incremental build up is the model of choice for a reason. Frontier City is about to add a decent thrill ride for 2015 though (to be announced very soon), and I expect it will give them a bump and the confidence in the market they need to do something even greater for either 2016 or 2017. I don't see them going all out and building anything truly world class, but there is are things like this: Untamed - Canobie Lake Park (Salem, New Hampshire, USA) that could be really fun for not a ridiculous amount of money.

White Water is in the same boat, but with smaller quantities of money. Water park projects are cheaper, but the revenue is also smaller and more variable. They did get some great new slides LAST YEAR that no one seems to recognize though. Funny how people who haven't been to the park in ages always assume nothing ever changes. With FC getting a new ride this year, I'd look for another new project at White Water next year, but it depends on how the sale goes.

Great post.

I think in the day building a amusement park from scratch would be very hard. Customers expect a lot, there is a lot of competition for customers entertainment money/time, and rides have gotten more expensive. Hard Rock tried, but the huge debt load along with the poor management doomed them. I think the debt load lead to a lot of poor management decisions.

I think a small Gravity Group coaster would be a great addition for FC, and I'd think it would be obtainable. Something like the Ravine Flyer II. More of a pipe dream would be a B&M inverted like The Raptor. I am sure either would suck up all of FC capital improvement budget for close to a decade though.

Growing up in Tulsa I went to Bell's about once a week, when I lived in Cincinnati I went to Kings Island twice a week every week of the season, except the weekends I went to a different park like Cedar Point. Last year I got season passed to FC and only went once. The Wildcat is fun, the Silverbullet is okay. I also believe that a park can be good with a couple coasters and good flat rides, but FC falls short there too. The bumper cars are pretty good, but the Ferris wheel is horribly ran and was squealing to the point of being unenjoyable. The antique cars are a joke. I think a Frisbee, or maybe a couple of classic carny rides would go along way, if they didn't have the capital for a new coaster.

As for White Water. I think it is a pretty good water park, but it is just too busy. I haven't been to Hurricane Harbor or Schlitterbahn, but been to 6 or 7 other full size water parks and I think WW is the most complete/well rounded of the bunch. Unfortunately WW is so busy during times I want to go, it isn't worth going. I think the city could support another park about the size of WW up around Edmond.

I think a lot of the cleanliness problems people have with WW are a symptom of it being overly crowded.

[bombermwc]

With as many people as flow through there, one would think that they should be financially doing great. But when you walk around, the place is basically the same as it was when I was a kid. The place has barely changed in 20+ years, and that's not a good thing. Some of the rides don't even run very often because of staffing issues. The old "rapids" ride that you could float down next to the old "Blackhole" ride that isn't called the Blackhole anymore.

There isn't much signage about kids not riding with you so when you get to the top of the Bermuda Triangle, you can get pretty pissed. And some of the lifeguards are just a-holes. There are plenty that are very nice and awesome/helpful. But those sour apples really make it stressful.

The place really could stand to get an overhaul on its image. Change the rusted lockers out and the flow at the front door altogether.

[traxx]

Right on so many counts, bomber. My kids love the Bermuda Triangle and I can't count the number of times I've heard people at the top get chewed out by the workers for not having the right tube or told they couldn't ride together or not being tall enough. All those are things that should be really clear before you get in line for a ride. But since WW is so horrible at communicating with it's customers it leads to situations like this all around the park. They expect non -regulars to know all the rules and policies but how can they know unless it's communicated.

When we went last summer, the rapids were closed down and drained.

[Jesseda]

I do wish frontier city would expand and add a bigger water park they do own the property across the street on Coltrane and they had or still have the camp ground lot just north of their parking lot.

[CaptDave]

The entire area would be vastly improved if the old fleabag motels were demo'd and FC expanded that direction. Shift the main parking to that area and fill in the current parking lot with new attractions. Or something.......

[baralheia]

As has been mentioned, White Water Bay is completely landlocked; though there are many opportunities for reconfiguring their layout for expansion within their existing boundaries, they own zero property surrounding WWB to expand outwards.



CNL actually already owns a good chunk of vacant property surrounding Frontier City... Enough to more than double the size of the park. Some of these plots have been part of the FC property portfolio since the early 90's.



If they really wanted to move WWB out there, they could easily expand the parking lot slightly to the north, and fill the rest of the northern parcels with the water park. There would still be room to expand within those borders, too. This would landlock WWB again - and prevent further water park expansion without either moving the parking lot or purchasing additional parcels to the north - but it would preserve the property to the west of Coltrane for further FC expansion.

[Plutonic Panda]

They could easily build a 10 story parking garage and have land available to development on.

[CaptDave]

I think moving WWB out to that area makes a lot of sense - I cannot imagine how much that would cost though. I doubt that cost would be offset much by the sale of their current property along I40.

[ljbab728]

I think moving WWB out to that area makes a lot of sense - I cannot imagine how much that would cost though. I doubt that cost would be offset much by the sale of their current property along I40.

I disagree. Whitewater Bay is more easily accessible to the entire metro where it is than on North I35. The only advantage to doing that would be if someone wants to visit both parks on the same day.

[rte66man]

When was the last time a new theme park was built in the U.S? Theme parks are expensive and the return on investment is terrible. You need a lot of tourist from surrounding states to support a large theme park and there are not many investors who are willing to fork that much cash to even try to build something competitive when Six Flags has three parks down south.

Schlitterbahn in Kansas City. I know it's a "waterpark" but looks like fun.
Schlitterbahn Kansas City Waterpark | Kansas City Water Park

[Kemotblue]

Driving home from the Thunder game last night on I-40 heading back to Yukon and noticed construction cranes in the middle of the park. I bet White Water Bay is adding another slide or something else to their park.

[bombermwc]

Well hopefully they're doing something. I went last summer with my kids and most of it was exactly the same as it was when I was a kid. Even the paint job looks like they just are in a "maintain" role instead of trying to improve anything.

[traxx]

Well hopefully they're doing something. I went last summer with my kids and most of it was exactly the same as it was when I was a kid. Even the paint job looks like they just are in a "maintain" role instead of trying to improve anything.

This +100

New slides are a good step, but it'd also be nice if they'd invest some money in cleaning.

[shavethewhales]

As with Frontier City, a lot of work has been put into WWB, but not all of it is noticeable. They done a lot of roofs, infrastructure, ect. that the old owners neglected. It's really just the last couple of years that they've been able to get started on additions and replacements. I know WWB got a new set of slides pretty recently, like either last year or the year before.

[TU 'cane]

Tulsa's had these issues as well. Obviously with Bells being long gone, Big Splash Water Park was taken over under new ownership and they're making BIG changes to the entire park. Expected that at least $5 million will be put into the new park with renovations, remodels, etc.

I think this is great, Big Splash needed a spark and I'm hopeful this will do that:

Down with Silver Bullet at Big Splash, up with Reptile Rush at Safari Joe's H2O - Tulsa World: Local

[traxx]

As with Frontier City, a lot of work has been put into WWB, but not all of it is noticeable. They done a lot of roofs, infrastructure, ect. that the old owners neglected. It's really just the last couple of years that they've been able to get started on additions and replacements. I know WWB got a new set of slides pretty recently, like either last year or the year before.

Well that's all fine and good but it'd sure be nice if they would put work into stuff that is noticeable such as band aids floating in the water, trash on the ground and other basic upkeep and cleanliness.

[Zorba]

Tulsa's had these issues as well. Obviously with Bells being long gone, Big Splash Water Park was taken over under new ownership and they're making BIG changes to the entire park. Expected that at least $5 million will be put into the new park with renovations, remodels, etc.

I think this is great, Big Splash needed a spark and I'm hopeful this will do that:

Down with Silver Bullet at Big Splash, up with Reptile Rush at Safari Joe's H2O - Tulsa World: Local

I was thinking about it today. I am pretty sure the last major improvement done at Big Splash was the Master Blaster - 21 years ago... Before that, I don't think anything else in the park had changed in my life time, except small changes in the activity and kiddie pools. I guess they painted the slides a few years back.

It is really sad that the Murphy Brothers were able to drive Bell's off the fairgrounds, while doing absolutely no investment into their own property.