Macy's at Quail Springs Mall is going out of buisiness.

[Bunty]

Belk would be the best fit for Quail Springs Mall; they do well at the Dallas Galleria and I believe there is a Belk in Owasso, as well, in the big lifestyle center up there. Meanwhile, other tenants are going to be following... it was written up today that Disney was going to be leaving the mall. Also, I was at Quail Springs Mall tonight, and another tenant said it would leave and not renew their lease. I won't say who that tenant is, but they've been there at least 5 years.

It's cool that there is a Belk in Stillwater. It's nicer and somewhat bigger than JCPenney.

[bradh]

Belk has a great ad campaign, that's what sets it apart from Kohl's. It may very well be pretty much the same stuff, but they sell it better.

[Zorba]

In what sense is it unfair? City governments collect tax to pay for such things as schools, police, and fire departments. I can see no possible reason a resident of Oklahoma City Oklahoma should be expected to pay for these things in Bozeman Montana, and vice versa. State governments charge taxes to pay more for the infrastructure, the roads for example, which the delivery companies already pay in the fuel tax. The resident of Bozeman Montana should not be expected to pay for the upkeep of Meridian Blvd in OKC. Not to turn this all political, but why is the only argument for collecting tax from people who do not owe it always 'fairness', using some strange definition of 'fair' that appears in no dictionary?

If online shopping is killing brick and mortar (what, we're on the 20th anniversary of that claim now? 25th? Should I get a card? Something in silver perhaps?) then brick and mortar needs to start offering what online is offering, rather than whine about how taxes are 'unfair'. If I go to Amazon, I can have my order delivered to my door in two days. If I go to a store, delivery will be an extra charge, it will be sometime in the next 4-6 weeks, assuming it is even offered at all. If you can't compete, go ahead and die rather than scream about how 'unfair' it is that the other guy is better than you. I literally can NOT count the number of times I've gone into a store only to hear "We don't have that in stock, but we can order it". Yeah. So can I.

So I do.

When sales tax is collected online, it is for the ship to city, not the ship from city. So if I bought stuff on Amazon, Edmond would get the sales tax. Which is actually the law. In Oklahoma (and probably every other state) if you buy stuff online, you are supposed to pay use tax on those purchases at the end of the year, which nobody does (Except me, I promise OTC!). So really, the only thing the current law does is get online companies off the hook of collecting sales tax, and makes you a criminal if you don't pay it yourself.

You can make all the excuses you want, but B&M is at a 9% disadvantage, even online, from the get go. There is absolutely no reason that online should not be on the same playing field as B&M, except that people don't like paying sales tax. Which is fine, I don't like it either, so lets just get rid of it all together.

[Zorba]

Incorrect. It would obviously be collected by the retailer, wherever they may be located, and forwarded to OKC. I did not say the OKC resident does not owe the tax, I said the retailer, who gets no services from OKC and therefore owes no tax to OKC does not owe it. But being forced to collect it, and forward it, and maintain a huge database of tax rates for every single locality in the United States is 'fair', somehow.

You also claim I think it is not hurting B&M stores...yet I never said that. You then claim I do all my shopping on Amazon...yet I never said that.

Simple software would handle the taxes just fine, so it would not place an undue burden on the e-retailer. In fact, basically every e-retailer already collects at least some sales tax, since they have to tax in states they are located in.

Your argument is basically it is "unfair" for the company to pay tax to somewhere they don't operate, but they aren't paying the tax... I am. And I do live here and use the services sales tax pays for.

How do you feel about Bestbuy.com and Walmart.com having to collect sales tax and forward it on? How come those e-retailers get screwed, just because they employee locals and support the local economy?

[djohn]

Also on the topic of malls. I would really appreciate a premium outlet mall. As in a mall that sells last seasons fashion in addition to new merch. I've been to a few but recently Las Vegas blew me away. Round rock Texas is a good example. But I fear "the shoppes" would have poisoned the market for a developer to risk a premium mall.

I was utterly disappointed with the stores that sell "polo limited" the gap didn't sell the same clothes as the actual gap. Coach isn't real coach. The le cruset is made in China and the Levis store only stocks the cheap/thin denim. This surely isn't true of every store,and it wasn't of the sunglasses hut, but it feels like gainsville 20 years ago. And it wasn't a "treat yourself" experience so much as a "back to school". But hey there's a Ted's now!

Is there really a difference in these stores (Gap, Polo, etc) at a Premium Outlet mall VS our outlet mall?

[Rover]

How do you feel about Bestbuy.com and Walmart.com having to collect sales tax and forward it on? How come those e-retailers get screwed, just because they employee locals and support the local economy?

Maybe we should reverse it and cut the tax when they actually locate locally and employ people and capital. Then fully tax Internet commerce. Actually support those willing to be part of the local economies, not just cherry pickers..

[Rivalyn]

Maybe we should reverse it and cut the tax when they actually locate locally and employ people and capital. Then fully tax Internet commerce. Actually support those willing to be part of the local economies, not just cherry pickers..

Eh you'd destroy the selection. The whole "long tail" theory that Netflix perfected really benefits from having the entire US as your customers. I like the idea in theory, but I think you'd do more harm than good. Not to totally destroy any hope for this thread, but it's like the arguments against urban sprawl. Internet retailers are the highly centralized city core and brick and mortar are the sprawl, makes more sense to centralize but yes I figure eventually sales will be so heavily weighted for the internet retailers that governments will have no choice but to get the tax thing figured out.

[Filthy]

Is there really a difference in these stores (Gap, Polo, etc) at a Premium Outlet mall VS our outlet mall?

I'm no expert, and have already given misinformation in this thread, but this is how it has been explained to me.......

A Premium Outlet will typically sell mainly overstock, end of life, and end of season products, that are of the same quality as the actual retail establishment. Products that were manufactured to be sold in the actual flagship store, or Major Natuional retailer. (Dillards, Nordstroms, Saks etc..)

"Most" of the outlet shops we have here in OKC, are manufactures that for the most part are manufacturing these goods specifically for their "outlet" retail locations. There are separate SKUs, and UPC codes for the goods sold that will only be found in the outlet stores. These goods might look very similar to what you would find in a flagship store...same cut, and same color/ and or design..but are typically made with a little less quality fabrics. Margins are actually higher, even though it is marketed as 40/50/60% off.

[baralheia]

^^^ It really is hard to believe we still aren't taxing online purchases.

Nonetheless, I can't imagine doing clothes shopping online.

This state DOES tax online purchases - it's just paid when you file at the end of the year. It's called a Use Tax, and though enforcement is pretty lax, legally you are required to pay it for all purchases made from a retailer outside of the state. See: https://www.taxslayer.com/support/83...Tax?language=1 and Oklahoma Internet Sales Tax | Nolo.com

[Patrick]

This state DOES tax online purchases - it's just paid when you file at the end of the year. It's called a Use Tax, and though enforcement is pretty lax, legally you are required to pay it for all purchases made from a retailer outside of the state. See: https://www.taxslayer.com/support/83...Tax?language=1 and Oklahoma Internet Sales Tax | Nolo.com

Nobody pays it though and it's not enforced. So basically all online purchases from stores outside the state are non-taxed.

[onthestrip]

Nobody pays it though and it's not enforced. So basically all online purchases from stores outside the state are non-taxed.

Yes, and unless Amazon wants to build a fulfillment center in our state, we are left waiting on our do nothing US Congress to pass the Marketplace Fairness Act to be able to collect this tax. Of note, I believe all of Oklahoma's congressmen have opposed it. This seems to be contrary to their claims that they are for small businesses and Main St.

[baralheia]

I must be only one of a small handful that does, then... Granted, I don't go through every online purchase and calculate it that way; instead, I take the easy way out and let TurboTax do the automatic "AGI multiplied by 0.056%" option. It makes it so I owe state taxes most years, but honestly, not much. If I'm legally obligated to do it, even if enforcement is nonexistent, why wouldn't I comply? It's the same deal with driving around with fog lamps on. Never seen a cop in this state pull someone over for it, but Title 47 O.S. § 12-217(D) prohibits driving around with fog lamps on while visibility is greater than 1/2 mile - and it is blinding to other drivers - so I comply with the law. Amazing concept, apparently.

I honestly don't know the specifics of how they would do it, but use taxes really should be either enforced or collected at the point of sale as sales taxes.

[bchris02]

I think there needs to be a new thread devoted to Internet shopping and taxation and the last few pages of posts moved to it.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think there needs to be a new thread devoted to Internet shopping and taxation and the last few pages of posts moved to it.

+1

[TheTravellers]

I also pay the "use tax" to OK each year, it's generally less money that paying actual taxes on the items bought throughout the year would've been. Yeah, I could *not* do it, but why not, it's a negligible amount for me...

[Mike_M]

I wonder how H&M is doing. My wife was and is a huge fan of the brand and while she was ecstatic about the new store, she found the layout and selection to be pretty underwhelming. We both find Quail to be a very depressing mall atmosphere so it's not often that we feel the urge to drive from Yukon.

Kind of joking, kind of serious. But what are the odds that we ever see Penn Square expand with either a new Wing or add a floor? I kind of have more hope in that than Quail living up to its potential.

[traxx]

I wonder how H&M is doing. My wife was and is a huge fan of the brand and while she was ecstatic about the new store, she found the layout and selection to be pretty underwhelming. We both find Quail to be a very depressing mall atmosphere so it's not often that we feel the urge to drive from Yukon.

Kind of joking, kind of serious. But what are the odds that we ever see Penn Square expand with either a new Wing or add a floor? I kind of have more hope in that than Quail living up to its potential.

Besides the logistics, I don't think you can ever plan on PSM expanding up or out. If PSM were larger and could accommodate every tenant that wants a space there, then their cool factor would go down, they wouldn't be able to charge what they do for space, and wouldn't be as successful. PSM is right where they want to be. Being able to turn down tenants gives them a certain cache. It would be much easier for Quail to right their ship if they had someone managing that knew what they were doing.

[bchris02]

Besides the logistics, I don't think you can ever plan on PSM expanding up or out. If PSM were larger and could accommodate every tenant that wants a space there, then their cool factor would go down, they wouldn't be able to charge what they do for space, and wouldn't be as successful. PSM is right where they want to be. Being able to turn down tenants gives them a certain cache. It would be much easier for Quail to right their ship if they had someone managing that knew what they were doing.

If this were the case, I wonder why PSM has so many low-end tenants like Payless and Gamestop, especially since both retailers have locations within a stones throw outside of the mall. You would think that eventually, the mall would squeeze these stores out in favor of higher-end stores wanting in.

[zookeeper]

If this were the case, I wonder why PSM has so many low-end tenants like Payless and Gamestop, especially since both retailers have locations within a stones throw outside of the mall. You would think that eventually, the mall would squeeze these stores out in favor of higher-end stores wanting in.

Have you ever heard the term "money talks?" Some of these stores have wink and nod deals with Simon....some, maybe even on paper, from getting the boot. You're being awfully picky too. It's not like those two stores are dumps or something. Nationally recognized brands that have been around for a long, long time.

edit: PSM is in good company. The Galleria (Houston): Payless and GameStop. Northpark Center (Dallas) has a GameStop.

[bchris02]

Have you ever heard the term "money talks?" Some of these stores have wink and nod deals with Simon....some, maybe even on paper, from getting the boot. You're being awfully picky too. It's not like those two stores are dumps or something. Nationally recognized brands that have been around for a long, long time.

I don't think so. I can give Gamestop a pass but Payless in particular probably needs to go. The PSM location isn't even their newer format. You walk in and it looks like you've traveled back in time to the 1980s. It's like the Radio Shack of shoe stores.

[zookeeper]

I don't think so. I can give Gamestop a pass but Payless in particular probably needs to go. The PSM location isn't even their newer format. You walk in and it looks like you've traveled back in time to the 1980s. It's like the Radio Shack of shoe stores.

When you see Northpark Center in Dallas (the fashion and luxury mall in DFW) has a GameStop, you give them a pass. But not Payless? Is it the name that bothers you? It's the fact their format (floor design) is at 3.8 instead of 4.1? I've noticed your penchant for finding something in everything to dislike is coming back.

[bchris02]

When you see Northpark Center in Dallas (the fashion and luxury mall in DFW) has a GameStop, you give them a pass. But not Payless? Is it the name that bothers you? It's the fact their format (floor design) is at 3.8 instead of 4.1? I've noticed your penchant for finding something in everything to dislike is coming back.

Penn Square is a small mall. If they really have a waiting list and that many tenants trying to get in, why not boot some of the lower end tenants to make space for others? I wouldn't bring it up if not for that. I would say the same thing about Windsor and Image, and both stores have a location in the Dallas Galleria.

I am not sure of the numbers, but I would be surprised if Payless is contributing that much to the mall's overall sales per square foot.

[zookeeper]

Penn Square is a small mall. If they really have a waiting list and that many tenants trying to get in, why not boot some of the lower end tenants to make space for others? I wouldn't bring it up if not for that. I would say the same thing about Windsor and Image, and both stores have a location in the Dallas Galleria.

I am not sure of the numbers, but I would be surprised if Payless is contributing that much to the mall's overall sales per square foot.

You're thinking too small. Payless is in Simon malls all over the country. It's not about just Penn Square. They put a healthy chunk into Simon's portfolio of tenants. Yes, they have a waiting list. One guy's "lower end" is another guy's "expect it to be there." This almost reeks of snobbishness. Why not boot every store that's not upscale? You're left with a luxury/fashion mall - that's not what Penn Square is or wants to be. They want to be on the upper-end of mainstream.

[Mike_M]

Penn Square is a small mall. If they really have a waiting list and that many tenants trying to get in, why not boot some of the lower end tenants to make space for others? I wouldn't bring it up if not for that. I would say the same thing about Windsor and Image, and both stores have a location in the Dallas Galleria.

I am not sure of the numbers, but I would be surprised if Payless is contributing that much to the mall's overall sales per square foot.

Sure Image and Windsor aren't giant brands, but I always see people shopping there, and from what I can tell, they've complied with Penn's new design standards. If they're making the numbers it would be a terrible business move to just give them the axe. Plus I don't think either of those spaces would accommodate a major tenant, let alone the Payless space.

I wonder if Simon is just sitting and waiting for GGP to run Quail completely into the ground, then just swoop in and purchase it for pennies and make it Penn Square II.

[Zorba]

Sure Image and Windsor aren't giant brands, but I always see people shopping there, and from what I can tell, they've complied with Penn's new design standards. If they're making the numbers it would be a terrible business move to just give them the axe. Plus I don't think either of those spaces would accommodate a major tenant, let alone the Payless space.

I wonder if Simon is just sitting and waiting for GGP to run Quail completely into the ground, then just swoop in and purchase it for pennies and make it Penn Square II.

Windsor is consider low end? I know when they moved into Woodland, Simon forced the Bungy Trampoline out because Windsor didn't want it in front of them. I know the trampoline was paying over $1500/mo to be there, so I am guessing Windsor pays a good amount more than that.

I love North Park in Dallas, but it does seem like it has a cheap hall, two upper middle class halls and one ultra high end hall. Game Stop is definitely in the cheapest part of that mall, pretty much opposite Rolex and Tiffany's.