OG&E Energy Center

[PhiAlpha]

In a weird way, he's not entirely off base. We lost nearly an entire city block of some of our oldest buildings for a building that could have gone on an empty lot that's going to sit empty for years.

I get the parallels but it is just more of BChris being overly dramatic. It sucks but Devon bought that block and intended to develop it regardless of what happened to the south. This wasn't a city sponsored effort to flatten either block. Who knows if Devon would've been able to sell or swap the Stage Center block with OG&E, or whether Devon would've wanted to pay additional money to buy the the block from OG&E. Even then, what happens to the current BOK block? Does OG&E leave it to rot and eventually flatten it to build their complex there? Would someone buy it from Devon or OG&E if they marketed it? Would Devon have even wanted the Stage Center lot if it was an option? They had plenty of time to buy it if they wanted to go that direction over the last 6-10 years but chose not to. '

Knowing what we know now it would've been nice if Devon/BOK knew the Stage Center block was in play prior to demoing their current tower location, but there are a ton of IFs.

[Laramie]

There's a lot of disappointment that we will not see the proposed OG&E development promised by Clayco.

You know what I'm thinking? OG&E will probably renovate their current structure.


The OG&E structure could use some sprucing up. Don't dare think about a rate hike...

[HangryHippo]

I get the parallels but it is just more of BChris being overly dramatic. It sucks but Devon bought that block and intended to develop it regardless of what happened to the south. This wasn't a city sponsored effort to flatten either block. Who knows if Devon would've been able to sell or swap the Stage Center block with OG&E, or whether Devon would've wanted to pay additional money to buy the the block from OG&E. Even then, what happens to the current BOK block? Does OG&E leave it to rot and eventually flatten it? Would someone buy it from Devon or OG&E if they marketed it? Would Devon have even wanted the Stage Center lot if it was an option? They had plenty of time to buy it if they wanted to go that direction over the last 6-10 years but chose not to. '

Knowing what we know now it would've been nice if Devon/BOK knew the Stage Center block was in play prior to demoing their current tower location, but there are a ton of IFs.

You're spot on about a ton of IFs. However, I think it's at least debatable that it wasn't a city-sponsored effort to flatten either block - it seems like it could have been Devon sponsored. And there were other development options for the buildings that Devon leveled. RePUBlic wanted the bus station space, there was a rumored hotel option for the other corner building, both of which I think would have led to interest in the other buildings. But as you said, too many IFs and it's much too late now.

[Pete]

Knowing what we know now it would've been nice if Devon/BOK knew the Stage Center block was in play prior to demoing their current tower location, but there are a ton of IFs.

Of course they knew.

First, Pete Delaney and Larry Nichols are very tight.

Secondly, Nichols is Chairman of both OCURA and the Alliance for Economic Development. Given his position in the latter, he knew exactly where the OG&E / Clayco deal stood because the Alliance was the group negotiating with OG&E directly for public assistance.

The OG&E deal had turned south a long time ago.

[betts]

Friendly public-service announcement: You all pretty much cheered on the Stage Center's demolition.

Not really. I even spoke against demolition at the DDRC meetings and I HATE public speaking.

[PhiAlpha]

Of course they knew.

First, Pete Delaney and Larry Nichols are very tight.

Secondly, Nichols is Chairman of both OCURA and the Alliance for Economic Development. Given his position in the latter, he knew exactly where the OG&E / Clayco stood because the Alliance was the group negotiating with OG&E directly for public assistance.

The OG&E deal had turned south a long time ago.

I figured that was probably the case. It seems even less likely then that Devon would ever have chosen the stage center site over the current block regardless of OG&E's situation (Which is annoying).

[betts]

From that article:



So, fill in the lake, plant some grass and hope maybe someday something gets built there.


Before energy prices are blamed for this, it should be noted that BOK Plaza started way later and is now coming out of the ground. This was just a cluster from the beginning including the ridiculous ruse by Rainey Williams that was happily promoted without scrutiny by the local press.


Wow, is this the ultimate indictment of OKC's strong bias toward developers and big business vs. preservation of our history.

Cue a huge uproar and an avalanche of told-ya-so's.

Oh I don't know. We might get a really nice surface parking lot out of this once all is said and done. I guess I have ESPN.

[Pete]

Devon wanted the site closest to it's current campus so it could directly connect it with skybridges.

However, if this news about OG&E scrapping it's plans had come out before they requested that all those historic buildings be destroyed, there would have been a much bigger outcry for them to take up the dormant OG&E property and spare that important block.

[bchris02]

I figured that was probably the case. It seems even less likely then that Devon would ever have chosen the stage center site over the current block regardless of OG&E's situation (Which is annoying).

I wonder how much this has to do with Devon wanting a skywalk from BOK Park Plaza to their main tower? I remember that being the excuse for why they couldn't build their tower directly west of One North Hudson and why they needed to have the tower actually fronting Hudson.

[bchris02]

Devon wanted the site closest to it's current campus so it could directly connect it with skybridges.

However, if this news about OG&E scrapping it's plans had come out before they requested that all those historic buildings be destroyed, there would have been a much bigger outcry for them to take up the dormant OG&E property and spare that important block.

I blame the city for letting them get away with this just as much as Hines or Rainey Williams. Destroy all that history and urban vitality simply for a skywalk? This is absolutely unbelievable.

[Anonymous.]

Devon wanted the site closest to it's current campus so it could directly connect it with skybridges.

However, if this news about OG&E scrapping it's plans had come out before they requested that all those historic buildings be destroyed, there would have been a much bigger outcry for them to take up the dormant OG&E property and spare that important block.

The real question is how much did Nichols pay to OGE to wait until his new building was coming coming out of the ground to announce the failure of the Clayco development? /tinfoil

[bchris02]

The real question is how much did Nichols pay to OGE to wait until his new building was coming coming out of the ground to announce the failure of the Clayco development? /tinfoil

This entire thing stinks so much you are probably right.

[2Lanez]

Before energy prices are blamed for this, it should be noted that BOK Plaza started way later and is now coming out of the ground. This was just a cluster from the beginning including the ridiculous ruse by Rainey Williams that was happily promoted without scrutiny by the local press.


Wow, is this the ultimate indictment of OKC's strong bias toward developers and big business vs. preservation of our history.

Cue a huge uproar and an avalanche of told-ya-so's.

Absolutely. This is the result when downtown reporters act like cheerleaders instead of objectively covering their beat.

[Bellaboo]

[QUOTE=bchris02;931700]I wonder how much this has to do with Devon wanting a skywalk from BOK Park Plaza to their main tower? I remember that being the excuse for why they couldn't build their tower directly west of One North Hudson and why they needed to have the tower actually fronting Hudson.[/QUOTE]

This does not hold water. Every conceptual drawing has the sky bridge link to the new NE garage only. It then links to the BOK Plaza building. One North Hudson being demolished had nothing to do with the sky bridge link from across the street, imo.

[5alive]

This is so frustrating that I'm at a loss for words. Surely changes are due; no, changes must be demanded and must be made on a number of levels. May this type of mess never happen again...at least not at this level!

[Pete]

Yet another wrinkle...

This site could have and should have been considered for the convention center and convention hotel.

[BDP]

In Oklahoma, why do we always tear down historic structures when instead we could renovate them and reuse them into something unique?.

What's interesting is that in recent years that has changed a lot and some of the most popular and vibrant areas of the city owe their success to renovation and reuse. And those areas are what has forged a vibrant and unique identity for Oklahoma City.

Maybe by the next time there is enough money in the city to generate a development boom, the people in charge of that money and the people in charge of the city will be people who remember this and recognize the significant impact and advantages renovation can have on the community and economy.

[bchris02]

Yet another wrinkle...

This site could have and should have been considered for the convention center and convention hotel.

Very glad that didn't work out. Fronting the park with a convention center is a waste in my opinion and would have potentially created a barrier going west.

[Patrick]

Maybe we can just close Hudson and expand the Myriad Gardens to the west? Would never happen though as that piece of property is worth way too much money.

[Pete]

Very glad that didn't work out. Fronting the park with a convention center is a waste in my opinion and would have potentially created a barrier going west.

The favorite site of the consultants fronted on the park and on the second pass they were still proposing the center on the south of the gardens and the hotel to the west.

And the only reason those sites weren't selected were due to cost.

[catch22]

That would be great. We could replicate the urban planning failure of the Cox, on a different side of the park.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yet another wrinkle...

This site could have and should have been considered for the convention center and convention hotel.

Let's please not give these people any ideas. I have recently come to the conclusion that MAPS 3 is a disaster and I'm honestly concerned whether the convention center will get completely finished and they keep delaying this thing time and time again. It's affected the streetcar, funding for other projects, I mean they have made it clear MAPS 3 was specifically designed for the convention center.

[Pete]

It's too late to change the convention center once again anyway, just interesting to think about.

[bchris02]

That would be great. We could replicate the urban planning failure of the Cox, on a different side of the park.

Like

[SoonerDave]

This is basically Pei Plan 2.0.

C'mon, bchris. Not everything merits the hyperbole. Not even close.

Pei Plan gutted a wide swath of old downtown OKC for decades. This situation affects one major, admittedly conspicuous intersection. Pei Plan 2.0?