Kong's Tavern (formerly Gigglez)

[Uptowner]

Like my favorite brand in town that recently closed. It was called D N T. Formerly "donuts" the ingenious new owners just removed some letters to transform of from a donut shot to DNT convenience store.

[Uptowner]

What is too bad is that there is no question in my mind that they really put a lot of effort into all of it. I just get the idea that it was either done in a silo or that everyone they showed it to didn't want to hurt their feelings or be negative. They just really, REALLY would have benefitted from some professional branding advice. That is a corner that some people are often too quick to cut, but it DOES matter.

What's interesting is... Given the fact that the only modern tenant was Saturn Grill. A reputable and well known brand failed there, for many reasons including 5 parking spaces, poor street visibility, plus the fact that nearly all the traffic comes E\W across 10th or south from walker above 10th. So it doesn't afford nearly the amount of eyes the area round about does.

Why would someone throw all their chips into a location like this? It feels like a desperate attempt to grab a piece of midtown banking on the moniker "if it's in midtown it will be a hit."

[soonermike81]

Like my favorite brand in town that recently closed. It was called D N T. Formerly "donuts" the ingenious new owners just removed some letters to transform of from a donut shot to DNT convenience store.l

Did they ever even open as the donut shop? From what I saw and heard, they set it up as a donut shop, hoping for a buyer to snatch at the same time the many other donut shops were opening. When they removed the letters, and turned it into a convenience store, I thought it was a joke.

[shawnw]

The back alley needs improvement by the city as well. I took the alley the other day while taking a peeking inside the space and was like whoa this sucks...

[JRod1980]

What is too bad is that there is no question in my mind that they really put a lot of effort into all of it. I just get the idea that it was either done in a silo or that everyone they showed it to didn't want to hurt their feelings or be negative. They just really, REALLY would have benefitted from some professional branding advice. That is a corner that some people are often too quick to cut, but it DOES matter.

Problem is, that everyone thinks there are professionals in branding. Sometimes you just have to let someone figure things out on their own and if they don't figure it out and fail, then consider it a lesson learned for the next time. All I know is that if I'm going to fail, I'm going to fail on my own with my own ideas. Not with what a "professional" suggested I do.

[JRod1980]

The back alley needs improvement by the city as well. I took the alley the other day while taking a peeking inside the space and was like whoa this sucks...

I do agree that this building needs some help from the city and parking is not the best situation. If a well established place like Saturn Grill couldn't make this location work, what does that say about the location?

[Urbanized]

Problem is, that everyone thinks there are professionals in branding. Sometimes you just have to let someone figure things out on their own and if they don't figure it out and fail, then consider it a lesson learned for the next time. All I know is that if I'm going to fail, I'm going to fail on my own with my own ideas. Not with what a "professional" suggested I do.

There most certainly ARE branding professionals, and if they are worth their salt they will draw out facilitate the owner's own ideas and then help refine them and fill in whatever the owner lacks in marketing know-how.

Just because you (it seems) happened to do OK in that area doesn't mean everyone else has the same instincts, nor should they be expected to have them. They SHOULD be experienced restaurant/bar professionals. But a good owner also recognizes where they could use professional assistance. A place shouldn't succeed or fail based on whether an owner (who's untrained in branding/marketing) can GUESS how to do something or luck into the right high school art student nephew drawing their logo. It should come down to whether the food, service and location are good. THAT is the expertise area of an operator. If they have experience in other areas, great.

By the way, you probably shouldn't wire or plumb your business unless you are a trained electrician or plumber, and you probably shouldn't do your business taxes unless you are a CPA or professional tax preparer. And by the way, I'm not looking for a plumber to prepare my food, either.

[baralheia]

I think the "everyone thinks..." line was supposed to say "everyone thinks they are professionals in branding"...

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
I don't think so. Read the last two sentences of his post.

[TheTravellers]

There most certainly ARE branding professionals, and if they are worth their salt they will draw out facilitate the owner's own ideas and then help refine them and fill in whatever the owner lacks in marketing know-how.

Just because you (it seems) happened to do OK in that area doesn't mean everyone else has the same instincts, nor should they be expected to have them. They SHOULD be experienced restaurant/bar professionals. But a good owner also recognizes where they could use professional assistance. A place shouldn't succeed or fail based on whether an owner (who's untrained in branding/marketing) can GUESS how to do something or luck into the right high school art student nephew drawing their logo. It should come down to whether the food, service and location are good. THAT is the expertise area of an operator. If they have experience in other areas, great.

By the way, you probably shouldn't wire or plumb your business unless you are a trained electrician or plumber, and you probably shouldn't do your business taxes unless you are a CPA or professional tax preparer. And by the way, I'm not looking for a plumber to prepare my food, either.

Yep, absolutely this! Not sure why tons of OKC folks (both in private and public/gov't jobs) seem to think that they can do everything themselves without asking professionals with expertise and experience in other states/cities/nations (or right here in OKC) how it's done. There are so many things not done right here that *could've* been done right if only somebody doing it had thought "Hmm, wonder how it's done elsewhere successfully?" instead of just "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead, we're independent and pull ourselves up by the bootstraps all the time, we don't need no stinkin' professionals". Doing it on your own works sometimes, but not all the time, and if you can stack the deck for success by hiring someone that has expertise and experience, why not (if you have the money), you can ignore them when it's over if you want, but at least you'll get a reality check on your own ideas. Rant over, back to topic, Gigglez is a silly name, and all the silliness on the menu is gonna be distracting...

[trousers]

Waka Waka Wings sound like something that would be on the menu at Chotchkie's.

[JRod1980]

^^^^^^^
I don't think so. Read the last two sentences of his post.

Actually Yes, that's what I was trying to say, that everyone thinks THEY are professionals in branding. As someone who has 10+ years experience in Marketing, I'm the first to say that even the professionals aren't always professionals. If I've learned anything during by venture with FlashBack is that you have to stay true to yourself and your vision. If I listened to every single bit of "professional" advise that is given to me I would probably still be looking for a place to open up my business.

And yes I do believe that sometimes owners have to figure things out on their own for better or worse. By no means am I saying figure out how to do plumbing, electrical and building a bar on your own. Although I did build our bar and the casing for the cassette tapes and I've never been known as a carpenter. But sometimes you have to figure out details like beer, liquor and wine selections on your own. What type of chairs and tables and lights you want. Those intricate details that make your business yours.

There's a ton of pride on the line, for someone that is opening their own business. Sometimes professional advise regardless of how great it might be falls on deaf ears and to me that's part of the learning process in owning your own business. As my business partner told me when we faced all the obstacles we faced trying to open this place up "If it was easy, everyone would do it". So that's why I've taken the stance that if I'm going to fail, I'm going to fail with my ideas, serving the beer I want, in the location I wanted to be in. Not someone else's ideas, for better or worse.

[Urbanized]

A noble idea...yet critically flawed if someone doesn't grasp marketing, design, aesthetics. And many don't. You're fortunate enough to seem to have a feel for it.

But one if the greatest traits of a successful businessperson is to recognize where they have strengths and where they have weaknesses, and to seek out help and advice with the latter. Not every business lesson need be paid for with failure.

[kevinpate]

You don't have to be the smartest person in the room, but you do need a good Rolodex.

I miss my Pops, but I've never forgotten that bit of advice, and never will. It has served me well over the years.

For younglings, a Rolodex is a hard copy contacts list, with information on slotted paper cards that fit on a wheel.
Very useful in its time, and way cooler than it sounds.

[Andrew4OU]

I've been here twice now. Once I got over the over use of the letter Z in their menu and branding, I, along with a couple of friends, found that we have really come to enjoy this place. Both times, a Thunder game was on, so there was a pretty decent crowd seated in the bar area. The food and beer selection is excellent. I got the burger with avocado (can't remember the actual name), and it was really really good. Chef Vuong even came out and greeted/chatted us up for a while. He's a friendly dude and a hard worker. He mentioned that he starts his day out at Bonjour around 5am and comes straight to Gigglez after lunch time and works until 11pm-Midnight. I'll definitely be back!

[Pete]

I need to get by there -- thanks for the report.

They have some comedy shows booked now and I believe it's the only place in town you can see stand-up, other than the occasional concert venue booking.

[soonermike81]

Yeah after reading that Chef Vuong was behind the food here, it makes me want to give it a shot, despite the name. He was the genius behind the food at Guernsey Park, which we love. Place has changed a lot since he left but we still enjoy eating there.

[OkiePoke]

I need to get by there -- thanks for the report.

They have some comedy shows booked now and I believe it's the only place in town you can see stand-up, other than the occasional concert venue booking.

The Looney Bin

[Pete]

From their FB page:

Come on out and watch our upcoming comedy shows!!
Jan. 30, All Ladies Lineup, Sam Smiths Brewery will be there
Feb. 13, Singles show, COOP Ale Works will be there
Feb. 14, Couples Valentine's Day show

[Roger S]

I need to get by there -- thanks for the report.

They have some comedy shows booked now and I believe it's the only place in town you can see stand-up, other than the occasional concert venue booking.

Loony Bin has been around quite awhile.... McSalty's was having some shows occasionally too for awhile. Not sure if they still are.

[Thomas Vu]

Chef Vuong is awesome! Not entirely unrelated, ate at Bonjour today

[shawnw]

It was a slow-ish night on the non-bar side of Gigglez last night and Chef Vuong and I have a number of mutual friends (he's the cousin of an ex). We talked for probably an hour and he basically told me his entire (chef) life story. Such a good dude.

[Pete]

They just submitted plans to put an outdoor patio along Walker and erect a shade pergola as well.

[Uptowner]

I just drove by and saw 2 cars + 2 people inside around 11:30 on a Saturday...yeouch.

[Pete]

More details on their patio: