Glimcher

[okatty]

^Think he might be saying NIMBY's haven't had luck preventing any types of development, good or bad in general.

This happened a few years back with a totally different type of project - the apartment development at NW 122nd just west of Rockwell. There were a lot of protests and fussing over that and it resulted in a small delay but didn't prevent the project from proceeding. Think the same will happen here.

[Plutonic Panda]

Ohhhh okay cool.

[Rover]

You worry way too much...one mostly baseless NIMBY lawsuit will not kill this development. I can't think of a situation in OKC in which a NIMBY uprising actually killed a well planned development.

36th and Broadway Extension. It was a Humphrys development, I believe.

[Spartan]

There was also some lifestyle center around Spring Creek in Edmond..

[PhiAlpha]

Or a badly planned development.

Springhill Suites in Deep Deuce

[PhiAlpha]

There was also some lifestyle center around Spring Creek in Edmond..

True but that is Edmond, not OKC.

[metro]

Trust me, the huge majority of NH residents are thrilled with Glimcher. They've filled up NH Plaza since acquiring it from CHK and once Trader Joe's gets open. they will see a big windfall of sales tax revenue.

After CHK chased out Crescent and the drug store, their city revenues took a huge hit, to the point residents had to be separately assessed for some municipal services.

The new construction south of 63rd with be in OKC rather than NH, but I'm sure most are thrilled with all the improvements and look forward to many more nice restaurants and a bunch of great retailers right on their doorstep.

Maybe so, but I can attest I've heard first hand from a bunch of tenants who are not happy with Glimcher.

[metro]

Wow! Arhaus is a big deal! My beautiful wife loves that store and has made several purchases online. They don't seem to be in "odd" markets. Almost all of the locations are in major cities. Between Arhaus, RH, and West Elm, this area will have a large amount of mid-high end furniture for sale. You'd imagine they'd feed off of each other in a good way. Great news! Crate and Barrel? If they were to ever enter the market... I wonder if they'd lean toward this cluster or prefer Chsmcrk?

Not to mention locally owned Winter House Interiors over in Classen Curve with mid to high end furniture.

[bchris02]

36th and Broadway Extension. It was a Humphrys development, I believe.

Do you remember what was proposed there?

[Rover]

Do you remember what was proposed there?

Lifestyle center where the church is south of 36th.

[Rover]

Maybe so, but I can attest I've heard first hand from a bunch of tenants who are not happy with Glimcher.

If they were ones subsidized by Aubrie or Chesapeake I could understand where they might not want to deal with Glimcher.

[bchris02]

Lifestyle center where the church is south of 36th.

So in Edgemere Park? If so, NIMBY opposition to that is a lot more understandable. Glimcher is being proposed on a completely empty lot, surrounded by roads, that has nothing but ugly surface parking for a building that is no longer there. Glimcher will bring nothing but improvements to that area. That's a little different than proposing something in the middle of Edgemere Park, which is a one of a kind neighborhood in OKC and should be preserved as is.

[Urbanized]

NORTH of 36th. On raw land owned by the church.

[bchris02]

NORTH of 36th. On raw land owned by the church.

Do you remember what the grounds were for the city caving to NIMBY opposition?

Do you think that will repeat itself with Glimcher?

[Urbanized]

Here is some contemporary news coverage of the story: http://newsok.com/article/3268138

And no, I don't think the Gilmcher development is seriously at-risk at this point. One critical difference is that the Gilmcher property is already owned by the developer, whereas the other involved a PROPOSED sale by a neighborhood church. Another important difference is that Humphreys' proposal would have required extensive re-zoning. Gilmcher will not require the same level of intervention.

[bchris02]

Here is some contemporary news coverage of the story: Housing- business plan has some neighbors wary<br/><span class='hl2'>Mixed response </span> | News OK

And no, I don't think the Gilmcher development is seriously at-risk at this point. One critical difference is that the Gilmcher property is already owned by the developer, whereas the other involved a PROPOSED sale by a neighborhood church. Another important difference is that Humphreys' proposal would have required extensive re-zoning. Gilmcher will not require the same level of intervention.

That development would have been great for the urban core. Its too bad NIMBYs killed it.

Sometimes it seems like NIMBYs have a habit of killing awesome development that would do nothing but improve the neighborhood and raise property values. Some developments are worth fighting, but its mindblowing there is so much opposition to these dense, mixed use retail developments that will bring nothing but improvement to an area, and its usually all because people don't want to have the inconvenience of a few more cars on the road.

[Teo9969]

They'll figure it out eventually and things will change, but for now, it will continue to be back and forth

[Rover]

So in Edgemere Park? If so, NIMBY opposition to that is a lot more understandable. Glimcher is being proposed on a completely empty lot, surrounded by roads, that has nothing but ugly surface parking for a building that is no longer there. Glimcher will bring nothing but improvements to that area. That's a little different than proposing something in the middle of Edgemere Park, which is a one of a kind neighborhood in OKC and should be preserved as is.

Are you the arbitor of what neighborhood is allowed to have NIMBY's or not? I think those in NH and Glenbrook would argue that they think their neighborhoods are special too. You may or may not like the income of the people, or the style of the home, but their rights are equal.

I live in Glenbrook and can tell you that the neighborhood welcomes responsible, good, urban development. And until mass trans comes to 63rd and Western, of course traffic will be an issue of concern if it is greatly increased. As long as it is thought-out there should be no problems and the neighbors have no issue. This lawsuit is not brought by the neighborhood, but by an individual. Know the difference.

[Rover]

That development would have been great for the urban core. Its too bad NIMBYs killed it.

Sometimes it seems like NIMBYs have a habit of killing awesome development that would do nothing but improve the neighborhood and raise property values. Some developments are worth fighting, but its mindblowing there is so much opposition to these dense, mixed use retail developments that will bring nothing but improvement to an area, and its usually all because people don't want to have the inconvenience of a few more cars on the road.

There are often serious considerations too. You trivialize all concerns. People move to certain areas largely for certain traits and amenities. When those are threatened, they are often fought. If there is no basis for fear, usually progress happens.

If a smelly factory is requesting to locate in mid-town, my guess is that the NIMBY's there would object and someone would try to block the re-zoning and location. Every sect has their NIMBY's.

[Spartan]

Realistically, the Humphreys project in Crown Heights will probably resurface someday soon. It makes a lot of sense. The Humphreys' also are from the Crown Heights area, and could have easily worked through the NIMBY issues. You'll notice it was 2008, which probably had more to do with the proposals' shelving, as well as the Humphreys' doubling-down on Carlton Landing at Lake Eufala. They will move on from Carlton Landing to Wheeler in short order - I suspect after Wheeler is complete, they'll look at this site again, if someone else doesn't gobble it up.

Maybe so, but I can attest I've heard first hand from a bunch of tenants who are not happy with Glimcher.

Name names, because that's absurd. Glimcher is a first-rate developer, the likes of which OKC is lucky to be drawing interest. Glimcher primarily focuses in high-end markets like Scottsdale, Ann Arbor, Malibu, etc. That said, their recent merger gave them a bunch of Quail Springs-esque properties, not their pride but cash cows nonetheless. Just as they're going through transition right now, they probably regard the entire Classen/Nichols Hills portfolio as a transitional play right now.

[bchris02]

It wouldn't surprise me. A lot of projects were cancelled/delayed in 2008 due to the national economy, including Tuscana in far north OKC. It wouldn't surprise me if the Humphreys simply decided that the economic conditions of the time didn't warrant fighting the NIMBY opposition in order to make it happen. I could be wrong though. Did the city ultimately kill the development, or did the Humphreys simply decide to pull out?

And I agree that Glimcher is a great developer and OKC is lucky to have them interested in this market.

[Spartan]

I don't remember the exact pulling of the plug, but this came at a time where the Humphreys pumped the breaks on a lot of development, including more Triangle stuff. That was also in part because they were still selling condos at Block 42 in 2008.

[Plutonic Panda]

I too would like to know why other besides the typical traffic issue someone would be opposed to Glimcher. More shopping choices. Increased property values. More jobs. etc....

[Spartan]

Some people in OKC can't have nice things.

[Urbanized]

PluPan, the resistance mostly revolves around the proposed multi-family development as opposed to the retail.

Resistance to apartment development is not uncommon when it closely adjoins affluent single-family housing. In addition to traffic concerns the unspoken (and sometimes even spoken) concern is that an influx of renters renters will drive down neighborhood property values. In this case I think that assertion will be easy enough to counter.