MAP IV (Oklahoma City 2017) possible extension date: December 2017

[Spartan]

Way easier for a hotel to do. All of the hotels in Orlando developed their own "demand-responsive transit" (DRT) to the airport before the Suntransit LRT thing was even a twinkle in some planners' eye.

They do this in Vegas too, especially if you're arriving with a big conference. Those two towns have a unique tourist set-up that they've had time to hone into what it is now.

[Just the facts]

Yes - so we learn from them and we don't reinvent the wheel. We can give residents and visitors using mass transit the option of not having to carry their luggage on the train or checking in at the airport with all the people who choose to drive there. It is especially nice if you are waiting on a train anyhow and have time to kill.

Most likely it wouldn't be available all day but surely there would be sufficient demand from noon to 8pm and one counter could serve all airlines.

[Spartan]

Demand is not there.

What there is demand for: A streetcar that serves local residents and workers.

[Laramie]

Think that's OKC is on the verge. As Plutonic Panda mentioned in an unrelated thread that most cities that reach that 1.3 million population plateau--they soon begin a building & population boom.

We have two great universities (OU & UCO) producing talented individuals. Our community needs to be poised to attract talent from out-of-state.

We need a nice private development that puts its stamp on Oklahoma City much like Reunion Tower
(Dallas), Tower of the Americas (San Antonio) & the Westin Peachtree (Atlanta).

Passage of MAPS IV will be crucial for the continued development & momentum OKC has enjoyed.

[CaptDave]

Land run monument should be moved to the Central Park. It should be something you seek out in the park, just as the settlers seeked out their claims.

To make it accurately reflect the land run the existing monument should remain at its current location - BUT - the sooners / land thieves portion of the monument could be in Central Park.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City Skydance Tower
$150 project: Height 925 feet to roof, Antenna Spire 1,000 feet, Top floor 890

[mugofbeer]

Demand is not there.

What there is demand for: A streetcar that serves local residents and workers.

No one thought rail would wor in Denver, Dfw, SLC, Portland OR either due to demand. All exceeded expectations. It just needs to serve the places people live, work and shop and be clean, fast and safe.

[mugofbeer]

I like that Skydance Tower!

[HOT ROD]

Don't forget about Oklahoma City University in that list of producing quality talent. ..

[Laramie]

Don't forget about Oklahoma City University in that list of producing quality talent. ..

Thanks Hot Rod: Yes, lots of talent with the OCU Meinders School of Business.

Oklahoma City needs some kind of defining landmark. Agree with Spartan that we need something vertical besides the horizontal landmark monument.

Something like a Skydance Tower (complement the Skydance Bridge) where we spend around $150 million for a landmark (nothing less than 600-plus feet in height) that will brand out city; put a restaurant at the top along with an observation deck on the south banks of the Oklahoma River that could really spur development near the AICCM.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a Seattle style space needle. Something more in combination range of Dallas' Reunion Tower & Seattle's Space Needle (circular like the space needle, with a round base & crown), but taller, with an awesome light show.

[Laramie]

Dallas Reunion Tower - 561 feet . . . . . . . . . . Seattle Space Needle - 605 feet with antenna.

[Just the facts]

Demand is not there.

What there is demand for: A streetcar that serves local residents and workers.

We are talking 15 years out. Also, at some point the streetcar has to move beyond MAPS funding and just become a public expense like roads are.

[Laramie]

Looks like the streetcar will initially be a feather in the tourist cap until the city can work out some routes that will truly serve our community as meaningful transit.

We definitely need to explore the advantages for future streetcar expansion. Public transit is supported by subsidies. This could be our step in the direction of commuter rail through the light rail system. Edmond & Norman offers potential with major universities in those cities.

MAPS IV should include a modest expansion of:

The Bricktown Canal (1/2 to 3/4 mile) extension.
Improvements on the Oklahoma River (both north & south bank development)
Street Car (4 to 6 miles) extension.
Authorized commuter rail study for Edmond & Norman areas.

Oklahoma City has shown a lot of improvements post MAPS I. We need to continue the momentum...

[HOT ROD]

have to start somewhere, might as well be where there is already critical massing of amenities/buildings AND where tourists can use it and have something nice to take back about OKC. With future visits and/or positive PR, that would help to further expand the system (via additional marginal revenue) where it then can reach more of the city (which itself will hopefully continue to add density as you leave downtown).

This is really NOT a chicken and egg scenario to me, it is more of an evolution where we already have the chicken but it needs to lay the egg and allow more eggs to be laid and matured. ..

[Patrick]

With all of the outcry about how MAPS focuses just on downtown, I have a feeling that a MAPS IV will likely focus on improving neighborhoods.

[bchris02]

With all of the outcry about how MAPS focuses just on downtown, I have a feeling that a MAPS IV will likely focus on improving neighborhoods.

I am starting to lean in the direction that there should not be a MAPS IV, especially if its going to be throwing money at fringe neighborhoods that have a questionable future regardless of any improvements. Not that they shouldn't be improved, but it should best be accomplished through a GoBond package. I would even support a permanent penny tax for infrastructure, projects as they become necessary (such as a new arena down the line), incentives for private developments in key locations such as the Cox site, and historic restorations i.e. First National, replacing MAPS. However, I think the MAPS model is beginning to show signs of outliving its usefulness. MAPS was needed to jumpstart a completely dead downtown following the previous failed urban renewal attempt but today the private market is doing a very good job at taking the reigns, and is in many ways doing a much better job.

One thing that the MAPS model would still be useful for is public transportation, but I think it will be difficult to get the city on board with a MAPS package dedicated entirely to it, being that most OKC residents live in the suburbs and would never use public transportation.