BOK Park Plaza

[TU 'cane]

This isn't exact, but from the information given on the thread I made something that might give you an idea of skyline scale.

Attachment 11883

Nice Berto.

And to add, we should see a nice section of the OGE Tower as well because it will sit directly South of this building, so Pete should be able to have a view of both new towers. And it really does help the skyline immensely.

[shawnw]

What's the over/under on that tower even starting before this one finishes?

[UnFrSaKn]

With whatever gets built on the OGE property to the south, the skyline will look even better from that view.

[Laramie]

What's the over/under on that tower even starting before this one finishes?

You'll probably see all of these projects in some stage of development. The BOK Park Plaza Tower, OG&E Tower & CC conference hotel should change the skyline immensely.

Wouldn't be surprised to see more hotels sprout up around the new convention center along with some office-residential (mix-use) development towers in that vicinity.

[HOT ROD]

I also am expecting the same, with regard to more hotel towers near the CC site/central park. Also, don't forget the likelihood for highrises at the Ford REICO sites and HOPEFULLY a highrise or two at the 4th and Gaylord triangle. Just too bad things are moving slowly. ....

[ljbab728]

I also am expecting the same, with regard to more hotel towers near the CC site/central park. Also, don't forget the likelihood for highrises at the Ford REICO sites and HOPEFULLY a highrise or two at the 4th and Gaylord triangle. Just too bad things are moving slowly. ....

You're right. We've run out of new developments to start criticizing as soon as they are announced.

[bchris02]

Briana Bailey in her chat this morning mentioned that low oil prices could call this development as well as OG&E Energy Center into question. Please say it isn't so.

[Pete]

Briana Bailey in her chat this morning mentioned that low oil prices could call this development as well as OG&E Energy Center into question. Please say it isn't so.

That isn't even close to what she said. Really, you need to stop posting things as fact that are way, way off base. You make the entire site look bad when you do things like this.


This is directly from the transcript:

1:47 AM What restaurants and/or retail can we expect in the new BOK Tower? Same question for the OG&E tower(s) (if they are ever built).

Brianna Bailey11:51 AM I think the state of energy prices has definitely cast some a few questions on the timeline of these projects. I think if and when we do see them built, we'll see more lunch-type restaurants, maybe a few nicer restaurants, a few coffee shops. More of the same basically.

BTW, to answer this question that was asked in that chat, I happen to know they are far along with a new to market restaurant for BOK Park Plaza.

And we are probably 2 full years from OG&E Energy Center opening for business, so the economy today isn't highly relevant. AND, as I've said before, I'm not aware of a single project that has been shelved or even significantly delayed due to energy prices.

People need to stop repeating that as fact without providing specific facts.

Any delays with the OG&E project have everything to do with unrealistic expectations of public incentives and then trying to find a compromise from there. At the very same time, the BOK Park Plaza project is raging forward, with a big energy company as its primary tenant.

People -- especially the local media -- need to stop banging this 'sky is falling' drum over oil prices. That is their opinion and becomes a somewhat self-fulfilling policy when that is continually communicated to a wide audience who accepts those views as facts, even though zero evidence is provided.

And in general, it's incredibly irresponsible and works against the local economy.

[TU 'cane]

Briana Bailey in her chat this morning mentioned that low oil prices could call this development as well as OG&E Energy Center into question. Please say it isn't so.

That isn't even close to what she said. Really, you need to stop posting things as fact that are way, way off base. You make the entire site look bad when you do things like this.


This is directly from the transcript:

BTW, to answer this question that was asked in that chat, I happen to know they are far along with a new to market restaurant for BOK Park Plaza.

And we are probably 2 full years from OG&E Energy Center opening for business, so the economy today isn't highly relevant. AND, as I've said before, I'm not aware of a single project that has been shelved or even significantly delayed due to energy prices.

People need to stop repeating that as fact without providing specific facts.

Any delays with the OG&E project have everything to do with unrealistic expectations of public incentives and then trying to find a compromise from there. At the very same time, the BOK Park Plaza project is raging forward, with a big energy company as its primary tenant.

People -- especially the local media -- need to stop banging this 'sky is falling' drum over oil prices. That is their opinion and becomes a somewhat self-fulfilling policy when that is continually communicated to a wide audience who accepts those views as facts, even though zero evidence is provided.

And in general, it's incredibly irresponsible and works against the local economy.

Couple things:

Playing neutral spectator, bchris' statement isn't that untrue. She was asked specifically about BOK, OGE, etc. and she simply answered in regard to all of them as projects. So, it's easy to understand how someone, when you read both the question and answer, that BOK was included. But... I don't see where in that quote oil prices were included, so that's where I'll stop.

HOWEVER, I'm not sure how many times Pete has to state that this is already financed and is moving along regardless of current climate. The financials for this project have long been approved and it's going to keep on.

[Pete]

^

She was responding about the retail / restaurants in those projects.


Anyway, this is starting to be a real hot button with me.

The Oklahoman in general keeps implying that oil prices are hurting commercial development and they never give any examples because I simply don't think there are any.

And to the extent someone like Clayco/OG&E tries to use that excuse (can already see this coming) then the duty of a reporter is to delve deeper and provide the context that when the OG&E project was first proposed energy prices were still healthy and they still couldn't come close to getting the deal financed without an absurd amount of tax dollars.

Frankly, these reporters let their relationships with developers and people who grant them interviews drive way too much of their reporting and opinions. Those who struggle are always, always going to blame outside forces, and now energy prices are the easy scapegoat.

Just because someone in the business community goes on record with a reporter does not make it fact. More often than not, they have their own agenda... Just like when TEEMCO got the Oklahoman to publish the blame for their problems was low oil prices, when in fact the huge amount of their problems began (which I documented in great detail with links to many court cases) when oil was sky high.

What I don't want to see happen is this "low energy prices are killing commercial development" mantra become generally accepted then feeds off itself and becomes a real problem when there wasn't one before.


Especially since moving back, I talk to developers in person all the time and almost all of them say that the lending market is very strong right now and they only thing that gets in the way of their projects is the competition with other developers for the same property, and then having to pay such high prices that there is little margin for error and even thin profits. Those things are signs of a *good* economy and not the opposite!

[bchris02]

Sorry if I misinterpreted her response or was needlessly pessimistic, but I interpreted her response as to say that energy prices have called the developments into question. I have heard other people (not on OKCTalk) also have doubts because of it. You are probably right that it all goes back to the Oklahoman painting a "sky is falling" picture regarding oil prices and their effect on development. I speculate that some of it also has to do with some people are cynical regarding the demolition of the historic buildings and the chance that what was promised to replace them won't get built, as happened during the 1980s oil bust.

Anyways, good to hear that isn't a possibility.

[catch22]

Pete, I agree with both of your posts. However I do think you were a little overly harsh on bchris up there. I read the quote several times and it took me a few times to see the context that you saw. She should have wrote her post a little more clearly to differentiate between the restaurants inside the project, and the entire project as a whole.

[Rover]

Interestingly, I was speaking with a leading national design and construction lead tracking service this week and they informed me that Oklahoma and DFW are the hottest activity markets they have going right now. They said you can't believe the amount of interest they are fielding regarding OKC and new projects.

[Teo9969]

Interestingly, I was speaking with a leading national design and construction lead tracking service this week and they informed me that Oklahoma and DFW are the hottest activity markets they have going right now. They said you can't believe the amount of interest they are fielding regarding OKC and new projects.

Talked with a guy from CNS insurance which is national commercial insurance company. If I remember correctly, he said OKC is the #1 market in the country growth wise. Maybe not growth, but some impressive statistic

[ChrisHayes]

Considering that BOK Park Plaza's primary tenant will be the Bank of Oklahoma, I don't see how the low oil prices will affect it that much. The same with OG&E. Now if we were talking about a new corporate tower for an energy company such as Devon, or especially Chesapeake, I'd be concerned. Right now I'm not.

[GoldFire]

Considering that BOK Park Plaza's primary tenant will be the Bank of Oklahoma, I don't see how the low oil prices will affect it that much. The same with OG&E. Now if we were talking about a new corporate tower for an energy company such as Devon, or especially Chesapeake, I'd be concerned. Right now I'm not.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the majority of the building will be Devon, with just a few floors dedicated to Bank of Oklahoma.

[ChrisHayes]

No, the majority will be BOK, and a few floors dedicated to Devon. If it were the opposite I'd be concerned a bit.

[sooner88]

No, the majority will be BOK, and a few floors dedicated to Devon. If it were the opposite I'd be concerned a bit.

Devon is occupying up to 250,000 sf (~35%).

[Pete]

No, the majority will be BOK, and a few floors dedicated to Devon. If it were the opposite I'd be concerned a bit.

Nope.

BOK is only taking 100,000 SF and Devon is taking almost 3 times that amount.

[edcrunk]

Hmmmm, not sure why it's sideways.

[G.Walker]

Hmmmm, not sure why it's sideways.

Nice, you can see they started the foundation piers, let's go! Excited for this tower, anything over 400 FT is a pretty good height, it will expand & change the skyline!

[Pete]

From today:

[_Cramer_]

This nice weather is helping things. Piers, footings, bottom floor being poured in the first parking garage. Moving right along!

[ljbab728]

And still no construction cam anywhere?

[Pete]

^

Much more difficult to accomplish than you might think.

We were spoiled by the Devon Tower experience where one of our posters dedicated a PC for the cam and his employer didn't mind. You also have to let your employer have you send images via FTP and almost no one allows that for security reasons.