Maywood Apartments Phase II

[catch22]

Looking good! Thanks for the updates Pete!

[shawnw]

The other day I stook at 4th/Oklahoma and that concrete was up over my head. I thought it was supposed to be at grade because retail?

[seaofchange]

The other day I stook at 4th/Oklahoma and that concrete was up over my head. I thought it was supposed to be at grade because retail?

The restaurants are going to be along Walnut. I don't think there is any retail planned along 4th or Oklahoma.

[shawnw]

The restaurants are going to be along Walnut. I don't think there is any retail planned along 4th or Oklahoma.

That kind of stinks though. There's already such a dearth of anything along 4th with Maywood I, was hoping the desert would end with stuff in Maywood II along 4th.

[Teo9969]

I think when we look back in 15 years to Deep Deuce, we're going to wish that more street-front commercial was available throughout the district. It's not bad by any stretch, but I'm not sure it's good either.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
Agreed. Richard McKown is the only one who has actually tried here. Any other retail that exists is either poorly configured (Lofts at Maywood) or pre-existed. Missed opportunities abound.

[bchris02]

I think when we look back in 15 years to Deep Deuce, we're going to wish that more street-front commercial was available throughout the district. It's not bad by any stretch, but I'm not sure it's good either.

I definitely agree with this. It really doesn't seem like this city knows how to do retail in urban environments. Retail needs a focal point and synergy. There needs to be certain streets dedicated to retail at ground level and others without it. Otherwise, there will only end up being bars and restaurants, with maybe a boutique shop here and there. To get the real retail downtown OKC needs, there has to be synergy. Right now, the only area that comes close is Automobile Alley. I think there is a lot of potential in Film Row/Hall Capital if its done right.

[HOT ROD]

OMG, is that underground parking I see? NO- I thought it couldn't be done in Oklahoma City. ...

[catch22]

OMG, is that underground parking I see? NO- I thought it couldn't be done in Oklahoma City. ...

It's on the crest of a hill above downtown/Bricktown. No water table to deal (cheaper to construct) with like in the river basin of the CBD.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
Exactly. Has been discussed in detail and ad nauseum here. The elevation of this site is probably around 30' higher than, oh, let's say... 499 Sheridan. The area around MBG has a water table only fifteen feet or so below the ground...whereas this site is high and dry. I'm surprised sometimes by how hydrologically challenged we get on this forum. A quick rule of thumb: water always seeks its own level, and downtown OKC isn't NEARLY as flat as people think it is.

[catch22]

^^^^^^
Exactly. Has been discussed in detail and ad nauseum here. The elevation of this site is probably around 30' higher than, oh, let's say... 499 Sheridan. The area around MBG has a water table only fifteen feet or so below the ground...whereas this site is high and dry. I'm surprised sometimes by how hydrologically challenged we get on this forum. A quick rule of thumb: water always seeks its own level, and downtown OKC isn't NEARLY as flat as people think it is.

I thought it was flat until OKC got the Spokies system. The only "flat" part is south of around Main St. to the river.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^
Even then there is more grade than you might think. Consider this: at the "headwaters" of the Bricktown Canal (old California Ave, two blocks south of Main) the surface of the water is about 12' below street level. But at the south canal terminus, the canal surface is actually ABOVE the surrounding terrain, which had to be built up to contain the waterway.

[catch22]

^^^^^^
Even then there is more grade than you might think. Consider this: at the "headwaters" of the Bricktown Canal (old California Ave, two blocks south of Main) the surface of the water is about 12' below street level. But at the south canal terminus, the canal surface is actually ABOVE the surrounding terrain, which had to be built up to contain the waterway.

That's simply not correct. The water level along the canal is on an incline; the land is the same height but the water level climbs as it approaches the river.

[BDP]

^^^^^^
Exactly. Has been discussed in detail and ad nauseum here. The elevation of this site is probably around 30' higher than, oh, let's say... 499 Sheridan. The area around MBG has a water table only fifteen feet or so below the ground...whereas this site is high and dry. I'm surprised sometimes by how hydrologically challenged we get on this forum. A quick rule of thumb: water always seeks its own level, and downtown OKC isn't NEARLY as flat as people think it is.

This makes sense, but they wanted to build the convention center underground, half the century center parking garage is underground, and I think Devon has some underground facilities. Aren't those sites all about the same elevation?

I get what you're saying, but I think it's also that some developers are hydrologically challenged as well.

[shawnw]

I think all of that is 1 level down and high maintenance (e.g. permanent pumps at Devon).

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^
That is correct. Devon spent a well-documented fortune on permanent pumps to keep their modest basement level dry. Maybe it was worth it for that building for some reason, but it is an honest consideration when developing in that old river bottom (which is essentially what that part of downtown is).

[BDP]

I think all of that is 1 level down and high maintenance (e.g. permanent pumps at Devon).

Century Center is two parking levels down and I'm not sure how that compares to how far down the convention center would go. Don't know about Devon. I get that it's not as easy as in some other places, but there is a difference between can't and won't. If Chicago can hold back that river that it sits directly on, you could put underground parking in the CBD. It's really more that the market can't absorb the expense of the engineering needed to do it.

The real problem, imo anyway, has been how much available land is dedicated to only parking and that we still keep tearing stuff down for it. To me, more so than doing it underground, I'm just glad Maywood didn't gobble up some more land or tear something else around it down to build its parking structure.

[shawnw]

I'm just glad Maywood didn't gobble up some more land or tear something else around it down to build its parking structure.

Except for the old service station... :-(

[baralheia]

Were there any repercussions for the developer that resulted from demolishing the old service station?

[shawnw]

Notional finger wagging from afar...

[Anonymous.]

Ahhhhh yes, the Christmas Morning Beatdown.

[BDP]

Except for the old service station... :-(

Is it confirmed that it's not coming back?

I'll be the first one to give them the finger on that one, but I do think street front restaurants will replace it if it's not coming back. So, at least it's not structured parking in it's place as far as I know. Sure, with this group's history who knows what they will actually do, but as far as I know the current plan still has some merit.

[Pete]

^

They still show those old buildings on their plans so I assume they will be rebuilt in some way.

They already have that entire space leased to the Meatball House a couple other concepts that will share a kitchen.

[BDP]

^

They still show those old buildings on their plans so I assume they will be rebuilt in some way.

They already have that entire space leased to the Meatball House a couple other concepts that will share a kitchen.

Yeah, it looks like they'll frame it the same way and then maybe put as much of the facade on it as best they can. Kind of a Disney form of preservation, but I guess relatively better than what some other large developers have done.

And, La Baguette Express right? (Boeuf Fromage to go, thank you.)

[shawnw]

Yeah if they told us they'd be rebuilding the bus station and Hotel Black after tearing them down, I doubt it would have been less upsetting...