Servers in OKC

[Urbanized]

See, I came home every night smelling like onions - and whatever else is required to make a pizza - and I loved it. I took pride in it. I think that is what is different between my generation and today's generation,

[gopokes88]

If you have a problem with the way a waiter is talking to you just kindly correct them.

For me, I focus more on attitude and tone over words. Pretty sure a waiter could say sup bro to me but as long as it's in a positive upbeat happy you're hear tone, it's not going to bother me one bit.

[Jeepnokc]

If you have a problem with the way a waiter is talking to you just kindly correct them.

For me, I focus more on attitude and tone over words. Pretty sure a waiter could say sup bro to me but as long as it's in a positive upbeat happy you're hear tone, it's not going to bother me one bit.

Although I can't agree with your handle today (Go Sooners!), I do agree with your statement. Years ago in one of my first server jobs, I picked up the cash payment and asked if they needed change. The customer informed me that I should never assume the change is for me. I immediately changed ti "I'll be right back with your change" which allowed the customer to say keep the change if the tip was already included.

[Urbanized]

I'm not going to correct someone for saying "no problem" anymore than I'm going to say something when someone walking into a building in front of me fails to hold the door open for me to grab (or better yet hold the door and allow me to walk in first, a small courtesy that I myself try to extend to others at every opportunity).

If their momma didn't bring 'em up right, it's not my job to teach them manners. I just make a sad mental note of the fact that society continues to coarsen, and unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done about it.

And I promise that if I tried to correct "no problem" they will be more offended if I try than I was by their unthinking slight. Now in the case of the advice that Jeep took, there was the added dimension that there was money directly involved, and the customer didn't appreciate that Jeep was assuming that the customer's money now belonged to him. It was entirely appropriate to speak up at that point, and Jeep took the advice and grew from it.

As is evidenced in posts upthread, a number of people would bristle at being advised to drop "no problem", so why bother, unless you're that person's boss? At the end of the day, an impolite server is only going to cost themselves (and their employer) in the form of smaller tips and missed future business. Not my problem...or better yet...no problem.

[gopokes88]

I'm not going to correct someone for saying "no problem" anymore than I'm going to say something when someone walking into a building in front of me fails to hold the door open for me to grab (or better yet hold the door and allow me to walk in first, a small courtesy that I myself try to extend to others at every opportunity).

If their momma didn't bring 'em up right, it's not my job to teach them manners. I just make a sad mental note of the fact that society continues to coarsen, and unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done about it.

And I promise that if I tried to correct "no problem" they will be more offended if I try than I was by their unthinking slight. Now in the case of the advice that Jeep took, there was the added dimension that there was money directly involved, and the customer didn't appreciate that Jeep was assuming that the customer's money now belonged to him. It was entirely appropriate to speak up at that point, and Jeep took the advice and grew from it.

As is evidenced in posts upthread, a number of people would bristle at being advised to drop "no problem", so why bother, unless you're that person's boss? At the end of the day, an impolite server is only going to cost themselves (and their employer) in the form of smaller tips and missed future business. Not my problem...or better yet...no problem.

I'm a millienial who has used no problem before. If someone politely corrected me that they didn't like that you bet I'd apologize and switch words.

Part of the blame does in fact belong with the customer for not communicating expectations clearly. People aren't mind readers, and what's great service to someone is just ok to others.

Which is why I use attitude. It's crosses cultural and generational. It's pretty easy to read. But if people prefer a snoody waiter but uses all the right words that's fine. This is America

[rezman]

I think a lot of the blame goes towards the fact that manners are not being taught anymore. By schools, parents and employers.

On more than one occasion, when someone has responded to my thank you with a "no problem" I've be known to come back with a quick "you're welcome".

[Urbanized]

Y

I'm a millienial who has used no problem before. If someone politely corrected me that they didn't like that you bet I'd apologize and switch words.

Part of the blame does in fact belong with the customer for not communicating expectations clearly. People aren't mind readers, and what's great service to someone is just ok to others.

Which is why I use attitude. It's crosses cultural and generational. It's pretty easy to read. But if people prefer a snoody waityer but uses all the right words that's fine. This is America

The expectation of simple politeness should not require mind reading, nor is it snooty. It also isn't the job of the customer to teach basic manners to a server. This isn't the same as communicating how much ice you prefer in your drink or your desire for the salad to be served with the entree rather than before.

Did you read the links I posted? I can tell you that I myself regularly read articles and other resources pertaining to my own industry because I want to continue to develop as a professional. Very often I find new and better ways of doing things, and sometimes even realize that I've been doing something WRONG. I don't make my own professional development someone else's responsibility.

Correcting someone for saying "no problem" WOULD come off as petty and snooty. A customer has nothing to gain by putting themselves into that type of uncomfortable situation. Again, these are BASIC manners. Wishing to be thanked for my business or told "you're welcome" when I thank someone for their effort is NOT the equivalent of expecting them to act like a maitre d' in a French restaurant.

And if a server doesn't feel that it's important to craft the customer experience with some care, it's their own loss. That's the difference between being a professional and simply having a job. It's not my responsibility to train you.

[Urbanized]

I think a lot of the blame goes towards the fact that manners are not being taught anymore. By schools, parents and employers.

Completely agree.

Mind-blowing to me that someone has now somehow turned a server's mild impoliteness into THE CUSTOMER'S FAULT. That just about sums up the whole problem being discussed.

Do I also have to ask you not to fart or belch when you're taking my order? Or can you read my mind on that one and know that I'd prefer you don't do those things?

[Ginkasa]

See, I came home every night smelling like onions - and whatever else is required to make a pizza - and I loved it. I took pride in it. I think that is what is different between my generation and today's generation,

This is a pretty typical generational fallacy. Every generation thinks that their generation was better than the next generation. Your parents thought the same about your generation and your grandparents thought the same about your parents. Here's a nice article on the phenomenon.

[Urbanized]

And yet we have people in this thread openly identifying as Millennials and saying that they don't think basic politeness isn't important as long as the food gets there on time. How do you account for this?

[Urbanized]

By the way, my comment wasn't so much that my generation is "better"; it is that we tend to value different things, which has been well documented in the media, and even in this thread.

The current generation reportedly can't find joy and fulfillment in a job that doesn't have meaning (whatever that is varies from person to person), and as openly discussed upthread tend to feel that "acting" happy when working in an unfulfilling role is inauthentic and unnecessary.

I think previous generations often found joy in the simplicity of performing a task well, providing for family, etc.. Also, the fact that politeness in general is waning and society has coarsened is undeniable regardless of the generational fallacy you mention.

[Pete]

Even if younger generations are more accepting of some of the phrasing, a good percentage (and maybe even a majority) don't like being addressed in the ways we are discussing and therefore it's not a matter of personal preference, it's respect for your customers.

And I want to once again point out that these exchanges are much more common in OKC so this isn't just a generational thing. I think it has to do with so many in the local area who are performing these jobs without the proper experience, training and management.

I also think the general friendliness of people here tends to embolden servers to be overly chummy and therefore less professional.

I honestly can't remember being called 'boss' or 'chief' or anything other than sir in my entire 25 years in California, yet it's happened to me multiple times here in just 3 weeks.

[Ginkasa]

By the way, my comment wasn't so much that my generation is "better"; it is that we tend to value different things, which has been well documented in the media, and even in this thread.

The current generation reportedly can't find joy and fulfillment in a job that doesn't have meaning (whatever that is varies from person to person), and as openly discussed upthread tend to feel that "acting" happy when working in an unfulfilling role is inauthentic and unnecessary.

I think previous generations often found joy in the simplicity of performing a task well, providing for family, etc.. The fact that politeness in general is waning and society has coarseness is undeniable regardless of the generational fallacy you mention.

One guy stating he doesn't think people can't be happy at work in a customer service role does not make a scientific study. I am also a millennial and and stayed in a customer service focused industry for a decade because I enjoyed it so much and wanted to advance be successful in the role. If there is a decline in the satisfaction of a job well done, it might be due to the falling buying power of the wages earned in these jobs vs. the rising costs of living and getting an education so they can find a new line of work they enjoy. But that's getting into another can of beans.

As far as general politeness, I don't disagree with anything you've said in this thread over what's polite or not. For me, I just don't particularly care if a waiter or other customer service employee is the image of politeness or not so long as I get my food and such in a timely manner without issue. That's what I went there for and that's what I'm paying for. But i also understand that its a subjective matter and different people want different things. I think that's really the crux of this generational difference. "Manners" and "politeness" are societal constructs. These can, have, and will change. There is nothing inherently wrong about this other than the difficulty of coming to grips with different standards.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
Agree with Pete that it's mostly a matter of (a lack of) traIning and (due to high demand and relatively low unemployment) a large number in the service industry who aren't really trained pros so much as bodies thrown at a labor problem.

I'd also point out that the term Millennial was first used in this thread by...Millennials.

[Ginkasa]

I'd also point out that the term Millennial was first used in this thread by...Millennials.

Whatever point you're trying to make here, I want to also point out that the term "Millennial" was first used in this thread by a Millennial. I only brought up the term once you did in this post:

And yet we have people in this thread openly identifying as Millennials and saying that they don't think basic politeness isn't important as long as the food gets there on time. How do you account for this?

Again, there had only been one person who had openly identified as a Millennial at this point.

[Urbanized]

...As far as general politeness, I don't disagree with anything you've said in this thread over what's polite or not. For me, I just don't particularly care if a waiter or other customer service employee is the image of politeness or not so long as I get my food and such in a timely manner without issue. That's what I went there for and that's what I'm paying for. But i also understand that its a subjective matter and different people want different things...

But see, there are now two scenarios (assuming that service is efficient and accurate/adequate outside of manners):

• A server can be efficient yet disinterested and even borderline impolite and you're still happy, which is great, and remarkably tolerant on your behalf. But a significant percentage of his/her customers are left irritated and mildly unhappy.
  
  Or
  
  
• The server genuinely cares about the customer experience and beyond just slinging hash or drinks actually works at being polite (by societal standards) and even gracious. This doesn't mean fake, it doesn't have to mean overly friendly. Just gracious and respectful. Now BOTH customer groups are happy. It's a win for everyone, including the server and his/her employer.

See, the ultimate goal of a PROFESSIONAL server SHOULD be NOT their own satisfaction but instead the satisfaction of as many of their customers as is humanly possible.

That's where the disconnect is here. Who cares if the server or a portion of his/her customers are comfortable with "chief" or "no problem"? What difference does that make if the rest of their clientele is made unhappy?

So much focus here on what makes the SERVER happy. That's so wrong-headed and shows an incredible sense of entitlement. There is a reason why it's called the SERVICE industry. A server's job is to attend to the needs and requirements of the customer, not the other way around.

[Ginkasa]

There's a couple of different conversation threads going on here and several I haven't taken part in or disagree with anything you've said, necessarily. I don't know if you are just lumping everyone into "sides" and assuming anyone who has spoken to agrees with each other, or if you aren't paying that much attention to who has said what. Anyway...

A server can be efficient yet disinterested and even borderline impolite and you're still happy, which is great, and remarkably tolerant on your behalf. but a significant percentage of his/her customers are left irritated and mildly unhappy.

Depending on how "impolite" we're going I may begin to take offense. But, generally, yes, I'm pretty tolerant so long as my food is right and everything comes quick. I've just explained my own preferences in this manner. I am not advocating that everyone must agree with me or that servers should be allowed to be rude.

The server genuinely cares about the customer experience and beyond just slinging hash or drinks actually works at being polite (by societal standards) and even gracious. This doesn't mean fake, it doesn't have to mean overly friendly. Just gracious and respectful. Now BOTH customer groups are happy. It's a win for everyone, including the server and his/her employer.

Sure.

See, that's where the disconnect is here. Who cares if the server or a portion of his/her customers are comfortable with "chief" or "no problem"? What difference does that make if the rest of their clientele is made unhappy? So much focus here on what makes the SERVER happy. That's so wrong-headed and shows an incredible sense of entitlement. There is a reason why it's called the SERVICE industry. You job is to attend to the needs and requirements of the customer, not the other way around.

I've never advocated otherwise. In this thread on this matter, I've only stated my personal preferences when I go to a restaurant. That was not intended to imply that my personal preferences are or should be universal. I only took issue when you made it a generational issue. I find arguments such as to be generally simplistic and tired - lumping everyone born in a certain timeframe in one group and assuming they all must act and think the same, and of course its all for the worse. Its a pet peeve of mine as manners in the service industry seems to be yours.

[Urbanized]

You're reading those responses as if they were singling you out or lumping you in with others. When I say wrongheaded and entitled I'm referring to previous posts in the thread suggesting that a server shouldn't have to go out of their way to be polite if they didn't feel like it. I don't believe you ever suggested anything like that.

[Urbanized]

And manners in the service industry are important to me because I spent many of my formative years as a server, and because for the past thirteen years have made a career of managing people in the business.

I've daily been forced to fight battles over really dumb things things like "I don't want to wear a uniform because it stifles my individuality" and "greeting customers isn't my job" or "I don't feel like working today so I shouldn't have to smile at people".

Like I tell my people, the service industry isn't for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with you if you aren't cut out for it. But if you are going to be here every day and expect to receive compensation for doing so, you are going to show respect for the customers who are funding our jobs, you are going to leave your bad day (everyone has them) at the door before clocking in, and you are going to be gracious and helpful to everyone you come into contact with, customer, co-worker or other.

[Ginkasa]

You're reading those responses as if they were singling you out or lumping you in with others. When I say wrongheaded and entitled I'm referring to previous posts in the thread suggesting that a server shouldn't have to go out of their way to be polite if they didn't feel like it. I don't believe you ever suggested anything like that.

You quoted my post, so I must have misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification.

"greeting customers isn't my job"

I had someone walk out yesterday for this exact reason. Good riddance.

[Urbanized]

You quoted my post, so I must have misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification...

In fairness I could have made it more clear in that post (#66). The first part of the post was primarily in response to you but also took into account the pro-"no problem" posters.

The second part of it (essentially begins with "that's where the disconnect" was entirely directed at those other comments; the ones along the lines of "I shouldn't have to be polite/friendly or watch what I say if I don't feel like it." And yes, I know that is a bit of an exaggeration, yet fairly descriptive of the attitude.

If you have time, go back and read my post and instead of me saying "that's where the disconnect is here", pretend I said "that's where the disconnect is in this thread."

My incomplete communication in that post is, by the way, a perfect example of how words DO in fact matter, which I guess is the point I'm trying to make here.

[turnpup]

And I'll chime in with the most basic of reasons for servers to be polite and professional to their customers: More tip money.

My husband and I tip very generously because we know it's hard work doing what they're doing. We make a special point to do so in places where the servers are working their butts off and may not be getting tipped as well as they should, due to the type of restaurant (such as a buffet, or a diner). If the server is nice, and is trying hard--even if they aren't perfect--then they can expect to see a $10 tip on a measly $16-$18 tab. Because they tried.

Today we (made a big mistake and) went to Golden Corral because our power was out and I was craving a breakfast buffet. The server was so awful that she didn't even bring us our coffee until we were halfway through our (fairly long) meal. Then, she didn't bring me any half and half for another five minutes after that. She never once checked on us, even though she walked by multiple times. I got up myself to refill my water. My husband had to flag her down to ask for more coffee. Her attitude was deadpan, even though we were both very nice to her throughout the meal. If she had made even a single attempt to be pleasant or act like it wasn't an imposition when we politely asked for coffee, then she would've made a whole lot more. As it stands, we still gave her 20%, because we're nice people, but she could've had a much better return had she just *tried*. I know it's hard to work at a place like that, but damn.

[Ginkasa]

They have waiters at Golden Corral?

[kevinpate]

Most buffets have table staff, for drinks and refills, answer questions, if any, etc.

[Jim Kyle]

See, the ultimate goal of a PROFESSIONAL server SHOULD be NOT their own satisfaction but instead the satisfaction of as many of their customers as is humanly possible.

Seems to me that the real root problem is that so many -- perhaps even a majority -- of those working as servers do not even consider themselves to be professional, and so behave in an unprofessional manner.

My own pet peeve is those with the attitude that I am doing them a great favor by dealing with them. Fortunately, this group seems to be shrinking in size. It's been months since I've encountered a bored server or salesperson who's just condescending to deal with me. Of course, that might be because I tend not to return to businesses where that happens!